CBA or w2w

[rU`]

Sudden death always had its nature, which is touching both walls. A new skill takes in action. Game changes in another direction.

Crates that are still in the map are NOT part of sudden deaths nature. They come inherited from a style which no longer belongs to the current games style.

If the gong doesn't sound and crates stop dropping, it's a game flaw I guess. But no crate dropped, then you know sudden death is there.

Crates, and whatever else, go as a background activity. You may or may not grab whatever is floating in the map. There is no gap for misunderstanding in here. 0% doubt. Sudden death has come baby, you know what's the new direction of the game. And if you don't, you're simply blind, or pretend to be dumb.

Still avi thinks what he says is what the other 72,77% will agree. You're full of yourself and definitely the only clown here.


You can always REMOVE sudden death, if you're not going to treat it purely at its 100% from the begining.
Again, there is no gap for misunderstandings.

[TheKomodo]

Sudden death always had its nature, which is touching both walls. A new skill takes in action. Game changes in another direction.

Crates that are still in the map are NOT part of sudden deaths nature. They come inherited from a style which no longer belongs to the current games style.

Ok I can only assume by now you are trolling.

Please try to follow this carefully...

Rules are man-made, it isn't your choice what happens when sudden death is initiated, it's up to the rules of the League you are playing.

If there are no rules to support this situation, then you have no say in this matter, you can only speculate your opinion.

2 out of 3 Leagues which DO have a solution to this situation support CBA, the other supporting w2w.

As I have already explained, CBA is the most sacred rule of Roper, CBA is the foundation upon which this scheme is based, it is the most logical course of action to take if there were no rules to collect the crate then attack.

How can you possibly even think to w2w before CBA if there are still crates left?

I would like to point out that both you and Ryan firstly believed the rules were always w2w is priority, when you discovered this to be false you quickly changed your arguement from "that's how it's always been" to "that's how it should be", I personally see that as desperation, while myself and avirex have stuck with our 1st point since the beginning that CBA whenever crates are available is the most logical thing to do because it's the most important rule.

I just thought of another reason why option 1 is a terrible choice:

If at any other point in the game your opponent fails to collect their crate for whatever reason, you can collect your crate, their crate or both crates then attack, you have a choice, if this situation happens because your opponent failed and the crate lands in a position where you cannot w2w AND collect the crate before attacking, it is completely unfair that you be allowed that chance to collect the crate, it's an outrage actually, you should be given the choice just as you are before SD.

And actually, since I realized that, I cannot accept option 1, I will never accept option 1.

The fairest option that will save complaints is 3, that's another fact for you.

[rU`]

Sudden death always had its nature, which is touching both walls. A new skill takes in action. Game changes in another direction.

Crates that are still in the map are NOT part of sudden deaths nature. They come inherited from a style which no longer belongs to the current games style.

CBA is the most sacred rule of Roper, CBA is the foundation upon which this scheme is based

Remove SD then, mate. Things are clear by now. No more talk is needed

[rU`]

I missed this part:

If at any other point in the game your opponent fails to collect their crate for whatever reason, you can collect your crate, their crate or both crates then attack, you have a choice, if this situation happens because your opponent failed and the crate lands in a position where you cannot w2w AND collect the crate before attacking, it is completely unfair that you be allowed that chance to collect the crate

Your duty is to w2w and attack now. If you manage to w2w and attack but fail to get the bonus crate, your opponent is probably going to be in the same condition in his next turn. (You are clearly talking about being in the same side of the map) You can either grab crate and don't attack. Or just attack (if you obviously manage to w2w) which is going to be more rewarding than grabbing a crate and not attacking. Anyways, your suggestion is more of a matter regarding maps design, lol

There is no room for complaints with option #1, unless you're avi.

Ok I can only assume by now you are trolling.

Geez some people can't be reasonable with.

[TheKomodo]

There is no room for complaints with option #1, unless you're avi.

I just perfectly explained the serious flaw with option 1, your counter is invalid as it doesn't change the fact it's unfair in the 1st place and shouldn't be like that, you are desperately grasping at straws now, I really want to stop replying lol, but I can't help it everytime you reply I feel obligated to correct you...

It really does feel like you are trolling, especially with the poor counter arguements you keep bringing.

[MonkeyIsland]

So we're talking over a rare situation in Roper?

First off, the poll is wrong. First option is not clear enough for all members. Some members (non-English speakers) don't know what "regardless" mean. (it should be: y u no w2w or yes w2w?)
Second, not only I didn't approve of such poll, but also we don't need such poll. This is a rare situation. There shouldn't be polls about rare situations. (I've never experienced that myself either or I may have and ignored it)

I've already said my opinion. W2W is a replacement for CBA.

Before the gong sound, if there are crates available to collect on the map, the player should CBA, otherwise w2w rule applies. (this also covers up that one crate-less turn before SD)
After the gong sound, if there are crates available to collect on the map, the player has a choice to either collect the crate or do w2w.


and finally, for the sake of argument. I do agree with rU and Ryan. Their point of view also makes sense. To me it is just two flavors over a rare situation and I'm leaning a bit more towards option #3.

[avirex]

ok, since when do we have to say "dear master monkey island, do i have your permission to make a poll?"

and if you dont think we need such poll, then i just dont know what to do anymore, last week you approved of the idea of updating the rules, this week your saying we dont need it???

i guess you like the complaints forum? you obviously like rules to vague, that nobody really knows what the f@#! to do.

i give up, i really do... f@#! the rules, lets leave them how they are...

cr8 before attack, w2w at sd, no blocking, hf... thats about what they are, so f@#! it, lets leave em alone then.


i agree with some things ryan and rU are saying too... like the fact that when sudden death starts, its time to w2w... i agree, but thats as simple as saying when roper starts its time to CBA.

anyway, i guess this argument is over, im glad we cleared this up, and we now know MonkeyIsland is leaning towards option 3... BUT LETS NOT UPDATE THE RULES, we will just reference this thread next time a similar complaint comes up, thats good thinking.


i seriously give up... its f@#!ing useless to try and help better TUS in any way, MonkeyIsland wants it his way, even if that way is right, or proven to suck ass... so, f@#! it...keep the rules the way they are, and enjoy having more complaints per week, then you can clearly handle.


edit: the only thing in the rules that should be changed is "when the gong sounds"  i think its very important to implement that into the rules in one way, or another

[TheKomodo]

We started this debate so nicely as well 

[spleen17]

Love this thread Hilarious

[MonkeyIsland]

I never said anything against debating. In fact I read the entire thread. If all members strongly had same opinion on option #1, I would have overrule myself. As I said, this is a rare situation and doesn't really need that much attention. Opinions are not the same either.

Polls have potential to make misunderstandings. Many members see it and they think if one option has higher votes, it will be implemented. It kinda happened in this thread too.

@avirex,
I appreciate the effort. (anybody who bothers to share their opinion)
Senator gotta update the rules. If you had some extra time, please chill

[Senator]

Before the gong sound, if there are crates available to collect on the map, the player should CBA, otherwise w2w rule applies. (this also covers up that one crate-less turn before SD)

This actually makes sense. Imagine you minimize the game at the opponent's turn and return to the game when your turn starts. There is one crate on the map but you don't know if it dropped for u or if the opponent left it for u. Therefore cba should always be followed, also when no crate drops before SD.

After the gong sound, if there are crates available to collect on the map, the player has a choice to either collect the crate or do w2w.

What bugs me here is that u can't choose between cba/w2w before SD if no crate drops but at SD you can. Why would SD give you more options what to do? When I voted for option 3, I thought it would be possible to apply that rule also before SD when no crate drops. Now I think option 1 or 2 would make more sense But option 3 still means no one can break the rule..

[TheKomodo]

After the gong sound, if there are crates available to collect on the map, the player has a choice to either collect the crate or do w2w.

What bugs me here is that u can't choose between cba/w2w before SD if no crate drops but at SD you can. Why would SD give you more options what to do? When I voted for option 3, I thought it would be possible to apply that rule also before SD when no crate drops. Now I think option 1 or 2 would make more sense But option 3 still means no one can break the rule..

I think the reason you must CBA before the gong sound is because it isn't officially SD yet, the gong officially declares SD, and w2w is an SD rule so I agree with this.

I don't know why there is 1 turn sometimes without crates or gong sound, but I personally consider that a warning that the next turn SD will be officially declared.

Speaking about that 1 turn with no crates and no SD yet, is that a bug or what? I've never understood that...

[avirex]

MI: your post bothered me, we been discussing this for a couple of days, for the most part, all remaining respectful.

then you come here and say "i did not approve of this poll" (as if we need to ask your permission to make polls now) and then you say "also we dont need the poll" (as if this problem has absolutely no chance of ever occurring again) 


Here's my thoughts, and goals with this entire "update the rules" project.

When complaints come in, with unique situations, no matter how rare they are, if they have an opportunity to repeat them selves, we need to make the rules more clear... this will do 2 things: 1)let everyone know exactly what he can or can not do, when this situations happens in their game, and 2) it will no doubt lead to less complaints at the end of the day.

So, as i said, my real goal is to limit the complaints, and make a clear, and professional set of rules for everyone to follow.

i know some wise-ass will come here and say "this is worms, its just a game, we dont need professional rules"  but yes we do, everyone who plays worms, and loves the games at one point in time takes it very seriously, and appreciates clear rules, and wants clear, and professional rules.. TUS is a professional website, but its lacking in some areas.. the number one area its lacking is its rules, and its been lacking the rules for quite some time...

now you have a team of people that are committed, and want to take the time to discuss, and implement proper rules (senator, komito, spleen, myself, ryan, and im not sure if rU is seriously interested, or he was just trolling)  ((sorry if i missed anyone))

and instead of respecting the people that are taking time out of their day to help TUS, and the rule book you say.

not only I didn't approve of such poll, but also we don't need such poll. This is a rare situation. There shouldn't be polls about rare situations.

i understand your point, that polls give miss guided information, and some people vote just with which vote is in the lead, without understanding all sides of the debate, or some people just vote because they want to be a part of something, or like to click their mouse..

but saying you did not give us permission, and its not needed was a slap in the face after we been trying to do something to make TUS a better place.

@avirex,
I appreciate the effort. (anybody who bothers to share their opinion)

your welcome

Senator gotta update the rules. If you had some extra time, please chill

your first post seemed to be a slap in the face, your most recent post was a bit better, and now i am chill...  but i do not understand what this means "senator gotta update the rules. If you had some extra time"

[MonkeyIsland]

The problem with polls is if they get out of hand, they'll lose their importance. That's why I avoid making polls unless they are important.
There's no slapping in my post. At least I didn't mean it to sound like.

edit: the only thing in the rules that should be changed is "when the gong sounds"  i think its very important to implement that into the rules in one way, or another

and I said Senator has the power to update.

[avirex]

ok MI... i get that sometimes the polls get out of hand..

thats why you should appoint a select group to discuss things, and decide what happens (if the select few cant decide, then you can make final decision)

or do you just want senator to handle it?? and update the rules how he thinks they should be?? because that just wont work... whoever released the rules when they uploaded the scheme, worded it poorly, senator added a couple rules (blocks and glitches) and he worded those poorly.

and it was not fault of the original uploader, or senator, and im not trying to attack sen. in anyway, but sometimes a group of people can put their minds together and come up with one solid solution, rather then one person trying to handle a task that is 6 years old and out of control... its kind of like when president bush f@#!ed up America, it was damn impossible for any one person to come in, and try to fix it... the country needed/needs a strong team to fix things.

im just trying to understand what it is you think needs to be done??

a) senator update a couple of things to make the current rules more clear? but things like what to do when SD starts, and crates are available are not important to discuss, or add to the rules.

b) a group of TUS members discuss the changes that need to be made, and the proper way to word them. also when complaints come in, decide how the rules can be worded properly, so the complaints are not repeated in the future?...

c) none of the above (in which case i hope you explain what you think needs to be done.)