CBA or w2w

[avirex]

if you have been following the other thread, feel free to vote...

please have a basic understanding of the pros/cons of everything, dont just vote because its fun to click your mouse, thnx.

Komo, if you'd like to compile the pros/cons for each side, and post here, feel free.. i know you like to do little tasks like this for the good of mankind!   i would do it, but im feeling a bit too lazy atm.

[TheKomodo]

Ok I will post what I feel is the best point from each side from the other thread.


In support of option 1:

I say option 1 - keep the meaning of sudden death - walls over crates (any hanging crates are merely a bonus)

In support of option 2:

I would go for #2. CBA over all is a very simple rule to follow.

It would be like: "You must collect a cr8 before you attack, if none is available you have to perform w2w instead."

You don't even have to mention SD because there will always be a cr8 when there's no SD for the player to collect. Easy, short intuitive rule.

In support of option 3:

Imo it has to be 1 or 3. Number 2 can be unfair as avirex pointed out (opponent leaves a hard crate for you and SD begins)

Edit: Good thing about option 3 is that then you don't have to know the rule. You can make a guess at w2w/cba and it's always right

I feel that option 2 can be unfair as avirex mentioned about your opponent leaving you a hard crate.

With option 1 I feel it can take away part of the risk/consequence for failing a turn, before SD if you fall your opponent has 2 crates they can collect they can choose to take either one or both, if option 1 was implemented it could potentially give the player who failed an extra chance I don't feel they deserve because the player has to w2w and think about collecting a crate too.

If you understand, agree or even realize that CBA is the most sacred rule of Roper and has been since WA began, and also understand, agree or even realize that w2w is purely a replacement for when there are no crates left to collect, what is there then left for anyone to assume w2w would take priority, except for personal preference?

So I voted for option 3, this way as long as the player does 1 or the other they aren't breaking the rules, they won't get forced to collect an evil crate because the other player made a mistake, and they should be able to take advantage of their opponents mistake.

Edit: I forgot to mention something important, although some people feel their choice is more logical than the others we can all agree each option is simple, fair and easy to understand, we are talking about a situation that very rarely happens, and when it does would only last 1 or 2 turns I imagine.

I should also point out that in the complaint that caused this to happen, MonkeyIsland ruled that CBA takes priority.

[Kangaroo]

what scheme are you talking about about. roper ?   you need to be more clear for us hysteria c@#!s

[TheKomodo]

Lol good catch pizza, yeah, it's Roper.

avi, could you include this is for Roper in the vote/topic title please?

[Lukz]

u guys really enjoy this shit xD

both will be inactive (again) probably in some weeks, why u insist in to do changes in schemes? xD

[TheKomodo]

u guys really enjoy this shit xD

both will be inactive (again) probably in some weeks, why u insist in to do changes in schemes? xD

The rule for SD in Roper isn't worded properly right now, there is a loophole in the rule which caused a complaint recently which caused a pretty big debate in the last week.

When SD begins, if there are crates left some believe w2w has always had priority over CBA while others believe CBA has priority over w2w, so we are holding a vote to see which option people would prefer.

I should also point out that MonkeyIsland favoured that CBA takes priority in the complaint.

[Kangaroo]

u guys really enjoy this shit xD

both will be inactive (again) probably in some weeks, why u insist in to do changes in schemes? xD

indeed, you should need to reach  PO before you opinion is valid.

[Senator]

From old league sites:

WL: "If no crate falls: just attack. If no more crates fall because it's sudden death: touch both walls before attacking." = option 1 (except we would do w2w if no crate falls before SD)

XTC: "After SD arrives AND/OR there are no Health Crates to collect, you must touch both walls before attempting to attack or hide (known as W2W)." = option 2

The rule has indeed changed over years. In WL you had to follow cba only when a crate fell whereas in XTC you had to collect any remaining crate before following w2w. So we can safely choose any option. I voted for option 3 because I'm sure that many players don't know what to do in this rare situation (even as experienced player as avirex went for crate during SD in that complaint case). Option 1 is ok too.

Edit: The WL rule may just assume the map is empty of crates, it doesn't state clearly what happens if a crate is available

[avirex]

Yah, WL does not clearly state what to do if a crate is left, but I would assume if it was on the map it's legal, especially considering WL made it legal to have no obligations before attack if no crate falls, and SD was not officially announced.

I guess this officially throws everything rU said out the window...rU, maybe you should show those quotes to your oldschool Spanish friends who wish to remain anonymous

Lukz, despite who enjoys a good debate, or not is completely irrelevant... TUS rules need to be updated to be more clear for everyone, which will result in less complaints

So if you'd like to say we love this, one could say you love complaints?

My point is, this is very much needed, and important.

[spleen17]

No. 3 will produce the least complaints (zero to be exact).

[Ryan]

WL's example is what I was familiar with (which makes sense given that it was my main experience of ropers) where it says if crates do not fall due to sudden death, hit both walls.

Under that premise, any crates lying there are up for grabs but you must bit both walls regardless. Apart from the odd first sentence, that is option 1.

I have to admit though, I didn't know the rules had changed - would be interesting to see what cl2k said.

[rU`]

It's mostly avi and komo merely debating as usual, it got boring lol.
 

If it's a backup plan,  Keep crates going, so that you don't need a backup plan. If CBA is so important for you guys, KEEP CRATES GOING. If CBA is more important for you, REMOVE SUDDEN DEATH.  Either keep sudden death with its right nature, or get rid from it. SD = remaining crates become a bonus.

[TheKomodo]

It's mostly avi and komo merely debating as usual, it got boring lol.

Me and avi were on the same side, and debating mainly against you and ryan, I hardly see how it was boring, even ryan stated he enjoyed the healthy debate, it was quite helpful.

Out of curiosity i'd like to see WACL/FB rules as well but don't know where to find them.

[Ryan]

Poll results are in - ready to instate option 1 into the rules?

[TheKomodo]

Poll results are in - ready to instate option 1 into the rules?

The votes only been up for 3 days and only 17 people have voted, I wouldn't consider that finished or fair enough yet, I guess we wait longer.

Edit - Just wondering actually, do we even have permission to update the rules like this? Or does MI need to put up an official vote on main page or something?