Changing Classic League Schemes

[Flori]

Hysteria is not going to be removed, because this is a democratic league, not a quality league and there are too many newbies out there who cannot play anything else and keep picking that scheme.

Well if you say so, there is no chance to remove it, I think all "pros" want to remove it and all "news" want to keep it.
So yes, democraticly, it should stay then.
What about adding rules as I said ? Honestly the game is rly better if u remove all plops, suicides, and zook from below and the most skill early and mid game will have real advatange at the end..

[lacoste]

Another potential scheme to be introduced to the classic league is WFW. While you can speculate about the map knowledge factor, this scheme for sure requires both strategic insight and various weapon skills. Why not a classic league material?

Not in its current shape (mainly maps and rules/penalties). It gets repetitive and biased if you dont know every map that doesnt have to be league-worthy. Hopefully some day we will see a proper random WFW map generator with some other sweet additions, then the scheme will be on top in competition and fun.

[nappy]

a proper random WFW map generator

I like this. I wonder if I'll have time to take a try on this one, but it certainly sounds like something doable.

[lacoste]

Its already been done, but wrong.

[Peja]

the same player who supports the fact that the worse player can win a ttrr, is now crying about "undeserved wins" in other schemes?

i also dont like how you generalize all hysteria supporter as noobs, afaik almog and komo like this scheme.
since we already discussed hysteria 1323242443535 times its not worth talking about it again.

i would feel very sad if T 17 gets removed. imo its seems to be the only scheme which doesnt turn into some robotic gameplay. also u have to think a bit more as in other schemes.  

[Camper]

If you remove hysteria, ps will remove me lol

[GreatProfe]

if u remove team17, i ll be noob again

[Gabriel]

hyst sucks 

I think even boomrace is more competitive xD
maybe ropa was right with that, nappy 

[Aerox]

Or boomrace

Go bitch somewhere else, please.

Bitch about what? Isn't this a thread were everyone can give their random suggestions?

Flori, do you know what's the difference between a new player and an old player voting? The old player has the chance to vote based on experience and knowledge, the new player can only vote based on premature taste.
I understand the principle about democracy, but you people seem unable to comprehend the long term effects of allowing such a thing to take over the decision making. Most new players don't like Elite, because they don't understand it, if they were given a chance to vote between Elite and Hysteria they'll do without Elite. Now, do you realize how many new players have become very good elite players because they were introduced to the scheme by league competition? They were forced to learn it to compete and now they love it (I speak for many people who are active nowadays and used to be not more than ropers). Do you even understand what's at stake or you just want this league to enhance your personal enjoyment just because, including making contradictory statements all over the place regarding league logic?

If you follow this path of casualness, hhcness or whateverness, there will never be another Mablak

edit: MI can you fix the bug were when you press edit it erases the beginning of the post
edit2: I managed to recreate it, basically when you quote someone and then edit your own pots it will erase the begining of the text: [quot
so the post starts like e"] 

[MonkeyIsland]

*disclaimer* Below content is not pointing to anyone directly.

You want me change Classic league schemes based on your taste.
Master a scheme, then come here and tell me "hey I'm so good in this scheme but I say this scheme is flawed for Classic league". Bring Dario here and let him tell me that Intermediate does not suit Classic league.

All I see is your unwillingness to learn a new scheme. As a league admin, I did got involved with all the schemes here and I tried to get a grip on all. I see uniqueness in every scheme being there.

Team17 is a very advanced scheme. You call it lucky because your mind can't see passed the crates just like people who can't see passed Intermediate random placements and call that a noob scheme.

The only update in the list is to do something with broken BnG and insert Intermediate in.

Many of you have forgotten this is a community, we need people in order to survive. The shinny "quality league" of yours will die in its first month because 20 people will see themselves on the list and switch places. They will get bored before you know. A king needs his people in order to rule. There will be no kingdom if you remove all the normal people.

[GreatProfe]

hey MI, what about the shopper scheme?

Man, this scheme is boring. The ammos are unbalanced and there are many useless weapons in the arsenal. Why we dont try change it?

[Aerox]

*disclaimer* Below content is not pointing to anyone directly.

You want me change Classic league schemes based on your taste.
Master a scheme, then come here and tell me "hey I'm so good in this scheme but I say this scheme is flawed for Classic league". Bring Dario here and let him tell me that Intermediate does not suit Classic league.

All I see is your unwillingness to learn a new scheme. As a league admin, I did got involved with all the schemes here and I tried to get a grip on all. I see uniqueness in every scheme being there.

Team17 is a very advanced scheme. You call it lucky because your mind can't see passed the crates just like people who can't see passed Intermediate random placements and call that a noob scheme.

I agree up to this point

Many of you have forgotten this is a community, we need people in order to survive. The shinny "quality league" of yours will die in its first month because 20 people will see themselves on the list and switch places. They will get bored before you know. A king needs his people in order to rule. There will be no kingdom if you remove all the normal people.

I don't understand what you mean with this. You obviously need people but you can't expect these people to make the best decisions for themselves all the time, because many times they won't. You need to listen to those that give argumentations for the good of the league and the competition and not those who vote based on personal enjoyment. What Freeman says has a lot of importance, it's not just about making the league elisits in where 20 people compete it's about maintaining a certain minimum of elitism. A league shouldn't be something anyone can jump in and compete, there's nothing wrong in requiring a player to learn certain schemes, because like I said, many of these schemes can only be really enjoyed once you fully understand them.

There's no reason why a thread couldn't pop up with a different flori asking for Elite to be removed because well, it's really hard and new players prefer other shit. Well, who cares? Force them to Elite. They will thank you in the long term.

[Flori]

Peja :I dont see the link with the rr. For me if a guy did the same second time in 1 game he deserves to have a chance to win on a 2nd game. Even if he is worse. Whats the link with hyst? I said in hyst a guy playing better whole early and mid game should have more chances at the end. With current rules, all the end of hyst games are same, doesnt bother if someone was better early and mid.
I never said hyst is for noobs

hyst sucks  

I think even boomrace is more competitive xD
maybe ropa was right with that, nappy  

Said number 1 of hysteria in tus league.

ropa : yes its true about the elite thing. I used to hate elite coz i sucked, then i learned it coz i wanted to be good overall and started to like it, now i dislike it again because i suck. But I didn't get the link with hyst^^

*disclaimer* Below content is not pointing to anyone directly.

You want me change Classic league schemes based on your taste.
Master a scheme, then come here and tell me "hey I'm so good in this scheme but I say this scheme is flawed for Classic league". Bring Dario here and let him tell me that Intermediate does not suit Classic league.

All I see is your unwillingness to learn a new scheme. As a league admin, I did got involved with all the schemes here and I tried to get a grip on all. I see uniqueness in every scheme being there.

Team17 is a very advanced scheme. You call it lucky because your mind can't see passed the crates just like people who can't see passed Intermediate random placements and call that a noob scheme.

The only update in the list is to do something with broken BnG and insert Intermediate in.

Many of you have forgotten this is a community, we need people in order to survive. The shinny "quality league" of yours will die in its first month because 20 people will see themselves on the list and switch places. They will get bored before you know. A king needs his people in order to rule. There will be no kingdom if you remove all the normal people.

Man it's not about me. I gave u Rdm+Mab example and told all reasons why i think we have to remove these schemes.
I suck in elite and bng also, did i say i want to remove these schemes ?
I dont like hysteria yes, I gave the reasons why. You can do 0 good shots, just use TPs to pile (and next turn drop an easy attack) or to plop or to hide, and be at the end of the game with equal chances of winning the game, even if ur opponent used jetpack, lg, grenades, zooks, cocktails as a pro.
So yes, now i understood that we cant remove hysteria co its too much picked, coz without it the league wouldnt be active enough, but still we gotta do something so the guy playing very better than his opponent early and mid game has a lot more of chances to win at the end...

T17 and shoppa, is it possible to see the pourcentage of picks ? The league won't become inactive if we remove those schemes. As ropa said, some new people didn't like elite and now really enjoy it because they had to learn it, it'll do the same in intermediate i think. Maybe not, but doesnt it worth a try ? I suck more in Intermediate than in t17, be sure of this.
Remove shoppa and put big rr, for sure there'll be more games in the league. I see a lot of big rr hosts in wormnet, not so much shoppa. You were saying "Many of you have forgotten this is a community, we need people in order to survive." You'll get more people by putting big rr and removing shoppa.

[Random00]

MI has a good point there. At the moment we have a good mix of luck and competition.
We just dont have enough people here to take away more luck. If you do this, games will get boring very fast and the number of avoiding problems will increase.
There are simply not enough players that have approximately the same skill level in every scheme.

and btw: Hysteria involves more skill than you might think. But it has some flaws that can't be repaird by just making some rules or modify the scheme a bit.
But I still think we need Hysteria in this league (e.g. look at the number of Hysteria games being played on tus).

Inter is a good scheme for competitive gaming, and we have a lot of players playing this, but we need to adjust the league system for inter to fit in, imo. Basically thats because I think you need to play bo3 at least (correct me if im wrong here) and this simply takes too much time. So you need to get more points for this and also have different ratings depening if the result was 2:1 or 2:0.

edit:
@Flori's talk about start of a game or midgame.
Just compare it to rr where you do a great run, but knock your head 5 secs before finish. You still played better start and midgame, but lose the game, becauuse you dont finish.
The end of the game is always what matters in ANY scheme. The difference in hysteira is, that you call something a bad start which in fact is not a bad start. Shooting your own worms is far worse in other schemes than it is in hysteria. But also in Hysteria you can play bad at the start and have a disadvantage later (Playing bad is just defined different in hyst than in other schemes).

[sm0k]

i agree about that hysteria thing ;p but i would like to see aerial in classic league.. u cant do lame things there..  and u need to be pretty skilled.