Right, but I find your reasoning weak and unconvincing.
I really dont see how you can say this KRD.
My argument is based on my past experience and also the current results of the poll. As you said the poll is divided pretty much 50/50, so obviously there is a significant number of people who don't want inter in the classic league, my arguments represent the thoughts of those who have voted no, so they are not weak they are valid. Now you (and others) may not agree that these reasons alone are a good enough reason to dismiss intermediate completely, which is fine, but that does not detract from the validity of my argument. Just as there are reasons to add inter to the classic league there are reasons not to. It seems I am the only one fighting this corner (having to reply to 4 or 5 people saying the same thing), but we can see by the poll that the community is split, my opinions represent those that have voted no (although im the only one voicing them in detail), and they are valid.
3 years ago, Intermediate was part of Classic league in first season. It even got played in PO. Intermediate got pretty much popular but mainly because ONL was down at the time. When ONL got back up, NNNs left for their own league and Intermediate activity dropped more than 50%. A poll was done and Intermediate got 50/50.
...and the poll is 50/50 today, KRD, this is why I have the same views as I did after we tried it the first time round it wasnt successful.
I really don't get the "BIG FLAW" on bo3 games. I mean it, I really don't get it. (Help me understand this big picture please) I understand about game duration and how it could take more than other games. But I don't get why it is a huge factor. So a scheme takes more time than others. If the time factor is this much important, why not make TTRR bo5 to make it come close to other schemes? It is ridiculously shorter than other schemes. Why not give 8 worms to each team to raise the quality of turns/times?
Imagine if BnG or Hysteria or Shopper were taken out of the league all those years ago. Would the same sort of poll look as positive for them as it does for Intermediate right now?
We can't say. The main problem people are have with inter is the rounds situation, its a big thing for many players. Hyst, Shopper and BnG are bo1 schemes, so the "best of" problem is not an issue with these schemes.
To address you MI, the amount of time it takes to complete a bo3 a game is not a problem if you enjoy intermediate and are willing to play a bo3 game. Unfortunately as we learned from past experience and from current feelings, many league players are not willing to spend that amount of time on a scheme they don't like. I wish they were, but they aren't, nothing we can do about it, we must accept this reality and take it into consideration as the league must try to please the majority of its users.
Ill go back to the beginning of TUS, back when you refused to have anything to do with the site (KRD).
I hope you understand I love intermediate and have a great respect for the scheme and its players. It didn't take a live stream for me to appreciate the scheme, I appreciated it way before then. I played ONL for a bit and had a load of fun, when Intermediate was a pick for TUS classic in the start, I was THRILLED.
The thing is I dont just consider my own personal feelings when making a decison, I consider everyone else too. Like I said I was glad when Inter became a TUS classic scheme, but in actual application it caused lots of problems. I would pick Intermediate and people would refuse to play. Then there were those who wanted to play, but only wanted to play bo1 when I wanted to play bo3, then there were times when I'd want a quick game of TUS and my opponent would pick bo3 Intermediate and I would have to refuse because I wasn't in the mood for a long game.
Whether or not you, me, Monkeyisland, Mablak, the "Russians" or whoever else is more than happy to play a long game, we cannot ignore the fact that there are just as many people who do not want to play a long game and they are well within their right not too. In an ideal world we would all play bo3 and have a great time, id be happy to play bo3, you'd be happy to play bo3, but we cannot refute the fact that there are just as many players not willing to play bo3 or even bo2.
What this thread should really be about is the validity of Intermediate as a classic league scheme. In my opinion, it has already been proven by other leagues and competitions that it's plenty valid enough and that it likely fulfills more requirements for a classic league scheme than some of the others in there now.
...and that is what this thread HAS been about. Its what your posts are about, his posts are about, and MY posts are about. As I keep saying, I know how competitive Intermediate is, I know how creative and exciting it is, I know there is NO QUESTION as to it whether or not it is league worthy. The thing is in practise it none of this matters. What matters
in practise, is firstly do the majority of players want it, and secondly are they willing to play it in its full and proper form. We are divided, there are those that want it, those that flat out dont want it, those that want it in its full form, those who want it tweaked, and those who would love to see it however cannot see it working due to the fact that we know many players do not want to play it as part of the classic league, I'm in that last category.
Let me clarify before people make me say the same stuff over again:
- I like Intermediate.
- I
know its league worthy, my view is not that it isn't
worthy of being a classic league scheme, moreover it wont
work as a classic league scheme.
Big difference.
- My only issue is that of the number of rounds, which is everyone who has an issues issue.
- My point is that no matter what I or others feel, there are those who will not want to play, will refuse to play, and this will be annoying for everyone (as it was before).
After reading the thread more, especially looking at Dario's statistics, im beginning to think it may be possible to include Intermediate if we make it always bo1, but there is no option on the poll to vote for this, so ive had to stick with no. Make the poll more detailed and you'd get a better analysis of what people are feeling. Whether or not we make it bo1, tweak it, or whatever else, there are still going to be those who don't want it and we cannot just ignore those people. I take both sides into consideration, hopefully a compromise can be made, and hopefully it will be a sucess, lets see.
Forums
Poll
