Last clanner playoff was 4 seasons ago. Time to do something?

[TheKomodo]

I would like to see the results of what you are suggesting Chicken, I really do, but I believe it would only serve as a temporary solution.

I agree.

The discussion that's going on here is just really two different views on what's important in order to keep something enjoyable that we are all very much passionate about. Very simply put, one side prefers quality over quantity, because good quality bring more quantity over time.

I don't agree with this, the 2 sides have their opinions.

Classic is not better quality than the rest of the schemes available on WA, some people might think this only because that's pretty much all that was available back then.

Look at it this way, if all the schemes and WA settings (everything DC/CS have added) were available in 1999 when the game was released, I feel extremely confident that Classic schemes today would be a hybrid of some Classics, something like TTRR/Elite/Roper/T17 and some Frees like Abnormal/Kaos/Darts/Aerial, I would put my money on TTRR turning out to be the most popular of the Classic schemes.

I think Warmers would still be one of the most popular things to do, but I think because of all the other options some of the players wouldn't have discovered Warmers in the same way due to finding other schemes too...

And inevitably we would still end up in this same position, because after 15 years technology and games have improved to the extent where only WA's extremely loyal fanbase and weird bunch of players would still be playing.

I actually just checked the Free League schemes, ever since Darts was accepted into Free League this scheme has dominated every Season except 1 where it fell short of 1 game to Abnormal, I am actually quite impressed and proud with that seeing as Free League doesn't see much activity compared to Classic...

[Aerox]

I would put my money on TTRR turning out to be the most popular of the Classic schemes.

So you're agreeing that people actually prefer to play and stick to schemes with depth?

Surely you understand that if Worms was only "Abnormal/Kaos/Darts/Aerial" since 1999 up 'till now perhaps no community like this would have ever deveoloped. Do you think people like Mablak, clans like  dt, HoS, TEA, etc, would have ever come up? Surely we are arguing big hypotheticals here, no way I will pretend to have the power to predict the outcome, but it's easy to understand that if Worms became such a league centered game and its end game became clanning, it's because the schemes we happened to have had more depth than the game itself even assumed it had. And whilst I agree that some schemes have just not aged well, like roper, that's most likely because people are scared to take on drastical changes and the reason of that is because they struggle at first, and go back to what it's easier for them: no depth small learning curve schemes. Didn't Avirex come up with an alternative to singles ropers? What ever happened to that?

[KoreanRedDragon]

Oh, how convenient that the conversation in this thread seems to have turned to the subject of schemes just as I'm about to be ready to post a proposal for the standardization of (some of the) competitively played game types. I really think the best start, if we want serious play to remain a part of WormNet in the future, is to have the community agree on how each scheme should be played, using what exact scheme file, on what sorts of maps, with what rules, that kind of thing. Individual leagues of course get to decide on the specifics as they see fit, but having a community standard available so that everyone can then build upon it, scheme inventor or league admin, would provide the sort of solid base that I think can make competitive play easier for newer players to get into and motivate old ones to come back to it, in the long run.

Basically stay tuned, I'll post it in a new thread sometime today or tomorrow and you know it's gonna be a wall of text.

[rU`]

Oh, how convenient that the conversation in this thread seems to have turned to the subject of schemes just as I'm about to be ready to post a proposal for the standardization of (some of the) competitively played game types. I really think the best start, if we want serious play to remain a part of WormNet in the future, is to have the community agree on how each scheme should be played, using what exact scheme file, on what sorts of maps, with what rules, that kind of thing. Individual leagues of course get to decide on the specifics as they see fit, but having a community standard available so that everyone can then build upon it, scheme inventor or league admin, would provide the sort of solid base that I think can make competitive play easier for newer players to get into and motivate old ones to come back to it, in the long run.

Basically stay tuned, I'll post it in a new thread sometime today or tomorrow and you know it's gonna be a wall of text.

Can't wait for it.

It seems the free league gave home for tons of unspecified maps and schemes, which benefit those who pick it to take a cheap advantage over others. And this is the reason why I personally always found TFL to be cheap and lame.

Some kind of standardization would definitely do good for everyone.

[KoreanRedDragon]

Thread is up in the general WA discussion forum, contributions welcome!

https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/standard-scheme-variants-%28part-1-competitive-ground-schemes%29-25170/

G'night.

[Senator]

Firstly, can someone explain the idea of Free league? There's 21 schemes in that league at the moment. Is the purpose seriously to find the player who can handle 21 different schemes the best? And who is considered the best allround wormer, the winner of Classic or Free league (the answer is obvious)? It's like running two separate decathlon competitions in athletics at the same time.

Secondly, many in this thread have questioned Hysteria's place in Classic league so I ask: does Hysteria have to be in Classic league or could it just have its own separate league like TEL?

[Triad]

And who is considered the best allround wormer, the winner of Classic or Free league (the answer is obvious)?

Classic, but the reason is players, not schemes. If TFL had same amount of players, I'd say TFL. Because a lot scheme and a lot people. If you still win that league in all these conditions, you are the shit. If you are good at bungee race, jetpack race, supersheep race, parachute race etc skills from those schemes would be usefull in ground schemes as well. And if you are good all the rest schemes, you would be considered as best allrounder imo. Because only people whom good at almost every scheme would be at top. Not like now, win most of the games on your favorite schemes and bingo, you are in PO.

Also TFL has replacements for some Classic schemes. Elite --> Normal, Hysteria --> Aerial, WxW --> Big RR. TTRR --> Big RR (if map is tight) etc.

But now let's come to the part why TFL is less active and why people prefers Classic. A lot more schemes than Classic, and most people are tend to master at couple of them only and people tries to bash eachother. If activity was higher people could try master in more schemes maybe. Another reason for low activiy is maybe too less rope schemes? Classic is simple, %50 Rope %50 Ground schemes. People who likes Rope a lot may not prefer TUS Free since there is only Big RR as rope scheme. (Darts too if you count it as Rope scheme but I doubt people think that because pretty diffrent than other rope schemes)

People prefers playing TFL schemes in cups instead playing them all in a league.

[Senator]

We have Classic league for determining the best allround clan/player so what role is left for Free league? The only excuse for Free league seems to be arranging matches for specialists of non-Classic schemes. A darts specialist and jetpack race specialist meet in #AG and agree "you bash me in darts so I can bash you in jetpack race". Given the huge number of schemes included (21), people are not even supposed to learn every scheme. Thus someone may practice the least popular schemes and win the title that way. Winning such league is zero worth.

Imo TUS should provide leagues this way:

Classic league (6-10 schemes): BnG, Elite, Roper, Team17, TTRR, WxW, Hysteria?, Shopper?, ?, ?
TEL (TUS Elite League)
THL (TUS Hysteria League)
TDL (TUS Darts League)
etc

If a scheme is not popular enough to be played separately from other schemes, let it be so.

TEL is obviously played in the expense of Classic league. What if Elite games were reported for both TEL and Classic (as a 3rd pick for Classic)? Playing TEL would mean risking Classic points against a scheme specialist. Yet people already agree to play a lot of 3rd picks (= a scheme both players master) in Classic league so would this be that big issue?

[TheKomodo]

We have Classic league for determining the best allround clan/player

Umm, no we don't...

Classic League determines who the best player is at Classic League, nothing more.

The best "all-round" player should mean all-round, someone who can play exceptionally well with a huge variety of schemes, someone who has truly mastered the most aspects possible of the whole game, not a few select schemes out of what is available.

It actually scares me to some extent that people in this day and age really think we can have a future by stringing out the past as long as possible.

Personally I think Classic League should be called Retro League, the schemes are THAT f**king old

Some people have argued that WA remains active because of "Classic schemes" while some people have argued WA remains active because of it's "versatility".

I have no trouble whatsoever admitting that the "Classic schemes" paved the way for Leagues, and competitive gaming on WA, however, I also remember WA practically dying before all the new and interesting schemes came around, the activity was so low, at one point i'd go to #AG and see less than 10 people online at peak hours, WWP was even more active at this point!

Then people started experimenting with schemes and the capabilities of WA that DeadCode & CyberShadow made possible, and the game started getting more popular again.

I believe WA is still active because of both "Classic schemes" and "Free Schemes".

I think we need a main League with carefully selected schemes from both "Classic" and "Free".


Oh yeah, and at least for me, the BIGGEST factor in this game still being alive, is friendship i've had with people on WA for like half my life, and i'm 28 lol.

[Aerox]

This is a forum, Komodo, your old messages, they're still there. There's no need to repeat the same points over and over again.

[Senator]

Classic League determines who the best player is at Classic League, nothing more.

The best "all-round" player should mean all-round, someone who can play exceptionally well with a huge variety of schemes, someone who has truly mastered the most aspects possible of the whole game, not a few select schemes out of what is available.

Your text is just hair-splitting and doesn't change the point: there is no sense running two leagues with similar purpose because the one is always more valued than the other. So can we just combine Classic and Free leagues together? No because 1) the number of schemes included must be limited so that players can master them all and 2) certain schemes just suit better for competitive gaming than others.

If you want to keep the Free league, at least reduce the number of schemes included and figure out a purpose for it other than finding out who can master a combination of rope and ground schemes the best. "Who can master a combination of technical ground schemes the best", for example.

[TheKomodo]

Senator, if you read what I said carefully you will notice I said this:

I think we need a main League with carefully selected schemes from both "Classic" and "Free".

Basically it would be a hybrid of Classic & Free (a few from each).

[SPW]

Maybe its time to change something. And maybe its time to finally seperate default and rope schemes. A lot of people avoiding classic league cause of some type of schemes thex just hate to play.

So my suggestion is very simple. Just 2 leagues, defaults and rope schemes splitted. Maybe we got 8 default schemes and 8 rope schemes, dunno. Then we can close free league, trl and maybe also tel (dunno exactly if this a good turn). 2 Leagues only with seperate playoffs and the winners should stand in big letters at the front page of TUS. And also the money pool got splitted. Edit the winning ratio to 40% and also the minimum games for having a playoff spot, for example 30 clanners / singles. And maybe we can also think about the lenght of each season. I would prefer 3 month / season means 4 seasons a year (like spring, summer, autumn and winter). 

Of course, we would have two kinds of clanners then. Dunno if this is the right way but I see too many people just hating the other group of schemes (like me).

[Lukz]

So my suggestion is very simple. Just 2 leagues, defaults and rope schemes splitted. Maybe we got 8 default schemes and 8 rope schemes, dunno. Then we can close free league, trl and maybe also tel (dunno exactly if this a good turn). 2 Leagues only with seperate playoffs and the winners should stand in big letters at the front page of TUS. And also the money pool got splitted. Edit the winning ratio to 40% and also the minimum games for having a playoff spot, for example 30 clanners / singles. And maybe we can also think about the lenght of each season. I would prefer 3 month / season means 4 seasons a year (like spring, summer, autumn and winter). 

3 month and 30 clanners/singles, sound like much time for relax xd

Maybe we can do 3 leagues, only rope, only default and other mixed(default+rope), u play only for rope and default league, the mixed leaguea take ur games automatically from rope/default leagues. You choose if the system add you to mixed league. 3 months for each season, but intercalated, example default PO 1st, 30 days after rope PO, and 30 days after mixed league PO.

sorry but my englis isn't good xD

[SPW]

Could live with it. 

Maybe you call it "telax" but a worker just cant play 24/7 so we should drop the number to motivate people to play it with ambitions. If you have time for 30 games each season you probably not even start it when the limit is 70 or something.

About your english, tbh I prefer to read you than some others which just wanna show their superior english vocabulary. My one isnt good too but understandable and simple. Take down the risk of missunderstanding. Especially in forums and with such a huge group of people all around the world. But thats offtopic and we just cant mute them