Last clanner playoff was 4 seasons ago. Time to do something?

[philie]

This was a reality, one you were never part of mind, and it isn't anymore, now that you lot have had your hand in it.

 wow,

[DarkOne]

It's pretty simple, WA has survived this long because it had a community centered around a league that worked, that has failed to deliver. What's there to "understand" in what I'm saying here? Doesn't the activity of FB blow this leagues out of proportion? With, *suspense*, a 1/10th of this website's supply?

Unfortunately, I don't have access to FB's activity numbers, but I think TUS activity was much higher at its peak than it was for FB (just Classic league, mind, not even including TEL, HAL, Free). TUS has also lasted longer than FB has (6 years so far for TUS vs 3 years for FB).
I do have WN activity stats at hand, though: http://stats.worms2d.info/
WN activity during FB's active state was consistently lower than it has been since TUS was launched. (only a handful of days had lower activity, I'd assume it was because WN was down at the time).

What is there to disagree? The subject of this thread is clanners. You're bringing up players that where at a certain given time or are unidemnsional claiming they raised the bar for others okay? Do you want to make a different thread for that? A bunch of people learned schemes they didn't like to become competitive and they ended up loving the schemes when they became competitive at them. This was a reality, one you were never part of mind, and it isn't anymore, now that you lot have had your hand in it.

You talk as if allrounders are a thing of the past, but look at the people who play this league. There are plenty of allrounders. I can't help that you're stuck with your nostalgia goggles.
I've tried my hand at all the classic schemes and decided I don't like some of them and don't really care enough to become good at a few others. I'd like to think I at least left my mark on the RRing scene, even if it was just a modest one (you're going to have to ask Mablak and Ryan whether this is true, considering they were also playing back in the RRkit days). Keep going for the ad hominems, though, their inefficiency keeps me entertained.

So the outcry that clanning is dead your answer is "I've enjoyed obscure uncompetitive schemes for years and never played a clanner yet had fun, you should too!"?

No, you asked me a question, I answered. That's how civil discourse works. Why do I need to explain this to you? And if you think RR is obscure, you are out of your mind. Bungeerace is more of a fringe, but still competitive (not that you'd know - ©ropa).

Why use the strikethrough as if highlighting I'm stating the obvious when you seem totally alien to the concept as it was my main post point and you somehow bypassed it all talking about people and their preferences? If you were as good as Mablak is in all schemes, chances are, you would have played hundreds of clanners in your time. But we do nothing for clanners to prevail then wave the people are unique snowflakes and evolve flag.

Then your winning percentage on TUS explains your low activity here? (See, I can go ad hominem too!)
No, I'm not a fan of the "you can do anything" movement that excludes criticism. It's kinder to tell people about their limitations than let them fall on their asses because people can't bring themselves to be honest. But your view is way too limited. You only look at the top, but in order to get a good elite group, you need a solid base. This is not new age "unique snowflakes" and all that nonsense, it's good old fashioned statistics. You know, bell/Gausse curve and all that, standard deviations, strength in numbers. All that sort of crap that has proven itself in the past, you know.

[Tomi]

The solution is so f@#!ing easy and it has been said about 28 times!

What TUS should do are:

 - removing needed winning ratio more than 50%
 - reducing  needed game number to play to qualify PO

Why are these needed? Because without PO clanning has no goal. It's so easy. These 2 things can be added back lately though. Not so big requests, are they?


What players should do are:

 - obviously: search or make a clan (2-3 clicks nowadays)
 - using those f@#!ing snoopers! Just open it when you are able to play and clanner will find you I am sure! With Great Snooper you can even play a beep sound when somebody is looking for a clanner and you can also automatically spam #AG in the background for example. (about 1 minute to install a snooper and start it)
 - try to make a "peak time" for clanners. Even when there were 2-3 active clans I didn't have do wait 8-10 hours for a clanner, because I joined #AG at about 8pm (GMT).

[KinslayeR]

No Tomi, ppl here prefer spamming and crying in forums than join ag and play clanners, that's how it works here,
good solution could be ban all ppl who dont play worms and writing bullshits in forums

[Aerox]

WN activity during FB's active state was consistently lower than it has been since TUS was launched. (only a handful of days had lower activity, I'd assume it was because WN was down at the time).

Bullshit stats you clearly cannot properly comprehend and cannot explain. Activity isn't a number on a channel. We have a bunch of shit bots and 24/7 idlers now. Back in FB, people actually had conversations in #AnythingGoes. We shouldn't give a f@#! about wormnet activity, but league actual activity, you think this won't end up dying when there's nothing else to talk about? stick by that idea, like you've done for the last 6 years.

You only look at the top, but in order to get a good elite group, you need a solid base.

You mean the solid base you've built here? Blue idiots defending hysteria to protect their rating (they're already gone from the thread and have nothing else to talk about because they don't give a f@#! about anything else), Green idiots complaining about forum discussions because it takes too much effort to even understand a post of this thread, idiots that don't realize that the lack of Wormnet interaction is directly proportional to the amount of community feedback that goes on in a forum, including disputes, rivalries or plain trolling and that once the forum is dead the rest will follow, and Black idiots who justify everything the league has done wrong to favor competition by blaming it on internet people having been brought up in a society where losing is wrong and a league that gives them all the tools in the world to avoid losing.

but of course they know best and they are experts coz "once" they played 2 clanners..

I've played more clanners than all the active players in this thread added up together. And I'm pretty sure the other inactive "experts" are on the same boat.

FB had 50 singles a day and 10-20 clanners, I remember the main website statistic like it was yesterday.

It also had an active general board, because you didn't have 3.000 inactive communities that allowed people to state their likes when people are not good enough to do so by regular communication, never forced to learn how to communicate, and never forced to realize what the community is all about. You where warned this was going to happen by having so many satelites and so little actual substance. And now that it's more than obvious you throw money and wave the evolution card because taking responsabilities would mean you lose, and we all know how much people hate losing in this league.

[Anubis]

I actually agree with everything ropa just said, exactly my thoughts, thanks for taking the time to write it down.

[DarkOne]

Bullshit stats you clearly cannot properly comprehend and cannot explain. Activity isn't a number on a channel. We have a bunch of shit bots and 24/7 idlers now. Back in FB, people actually had conversations in #AnythingGoes. We shouldn't give a f@#! about wormnet activity, but league actual activity, you think this won't end up dying when there's nothing else to talk about? stick by that idea, like you've done for the last 6 years.

You have to actually look at the page before you can call it bullshit: top graph is Daily hosted games history chart. Made the font bigger, because you clearly missed it when the letters were smaller.

You only look at the top, but in order to get a good elite group, you need a solid base.

You mean the solid base you've built here? Blue idiots defending hysteria to protect their rating (they're already gone from the thread and have nothing else to talk about because they don't give a f@#! about anything else), Green idiots complaining about forum discussions because it takes too much effort to even understand a post of this thread, idiots that don't realize that the lack of Wormnet interaction is directly proportional to the amount of community feedback that goes on in a forum, including disputes, rivalries or plain trolling and that once the forum is dead the rest will follow, and Black idiots who justify everything the league has done wrong to favor competition by blaming it on internet people having been brought up in a society where losing is wrong and a league that gives them all the tools in the world to avoid losing.

Current activity in the classic league:
1011 games played
BnG: 5% of the games
Elite: 16% of the games
Hysteria: 21.7% of the games
Roper: 10.8% of the games
Shopper: 6% of the games
Team17: 11% of the games
TTRR: 17.1% of the games
WxW: 12.3% of the games

Either this information can't be found directly on the site, or I simply couldn't cause I'm too much of a dufus, but this is what I just checked. Yes, hysteria is the most popular game. No, hysteria is not the only thing that happens (as you suggest in your mindless rant). You can't get into PO with hysteria alone, especially if it's such an easy scheme to master that it just becomes luck after that (your point, right?). You need other schemes to qualify for top spots.

I've played more clanners than all the active players in this thread added up together. And I'm pretty sure the other inactive "experts" are on the same boat.

FB had 50 singles a day and 10-20 clanners, I remember the main website statistic like it was yesterday.

Those single stats are about on par with TUS' at the moment, but that still isn't close to its peak. Before 2014, TUS clanner stats were on par or better than FBs. The number has indeed dropped below in this year.

It also had an active general board, because you didn't have 3.000 inactive communities that allowed people to state their likes when people are not good enough to do so by regular communication, never forced to learn how to communicate, and never forced to realize what the community is all about. You where warned this was going to happen by having so many satelites and so little actual substance. And now that it's more than obvious you throw money and wave the evolution card because taking responsabilities would mean you lose, and we all know how much people hate losing in this league.

I give you numbers, you give me thoughtless whining and screaming about how everybody else is an idiot. If this league is such a low skilled one, how about proving that point? Shouldn't be too hard to raise your winning percentage of 40% on TUS. Baseless assertions are just that. Meaningless. Show some substance in your arguments, ropa. Back it up with facts. You know, the way adults do.

[nino]

Talking about FB, can't forget the fact that Kiros loved Ropa too 

sorry for the off topic 

[Aerox]

You have to actually look at the page before you can call it bullshit: top graph is Daily hosted games history chart. Made the font bigger, because you clearly missed it when the letters were smaller.

We shouldn't give a f@#! about wormnet activity, but league actual activity i can play this stupid game too

Did you read? Bullshit stats. You cannot draw activity conclusions from that. Maybe when you get game length and have the system not add up joins when it's the same person. With 80% of the list of players being afk snoopers and the rest being random people hosting random short games and coming back to #ag what are you trying to say here? That Worms is as "active" as ever? So how come the league is dying? Oh right, it's not, at one point more clanners than in FB were being played! Who the f@#! believes this shit? You of course. Staff of both leagues who only looks up these stats when he needs to clean face in a forum thread whilst being called out for being a sucky administrator whose only achievement has been turning TUS into worm olympics.

Current activity in the classic league:
1011 games played
BnG: 5% of the games
Elite: 16% of the games
Hysteria: 21.7% of the games
Roper: 10.8% of the games
Shopper: 6% of the games
Team17: 11% of the games
TTRR: 17.1% of the games
WxW: 12.3% of the games

Either this information can't be found directly on the site, or I simply couldn't cause I'm too much of a dufus, but this is what I just checked. Yes, hysteria is the most popular game.

What is this for? Copy pasting random data will only get you so far, maybe in medicine. I gave you my impression of the vocal community, the idiots who posted in this thread. Why would I care what they play?
 

No, hysteria is not the only thing that happens (as you suggest in your mindless rant).

I never claimed that. I might use strong words but I'm not a man of extremes, I understand the context very well and have enough perspective to realize when someone is putting words in my mouth becuse he's ran out of bullshit, excuses, or both. Like you here.

You can't get into PO with hysteria alone, especially if it's such an easy scheme to master that it just becomes luck after that (your point, right?). You need other schemes to qualify for top spots.

Thanks for the gratuite information no one asked for. Keep comparing velocity with carrots. I really don't know what you're trying to say. That there's nothing wrong how you built up the ladders here? Bunch of wrong, and you've been ignoring for long now and now that there's no more clanning, no more clans and no more people striving to become good in the classical sense of the game, it's when you start with excuses. People were already complaining when you became a mod in FB D1. You've never played worms competitively, never been part of a competitive clan, never clanned, you don't even know what it is and yet here you are, trying to explain how you managed to ruin the competition to the ground with bungee racing and claiming it's everyone else's fault. See how that works? You ask me to play to prove a point. I ask you to play to actually understand the point.

Those single stats are about on par with TUS' at the moment, but that still isn't close to its peak. Before 2014, TUS clanner stats were on par or better than FBs. The number has indeed dropped below in this year.

Single stats on par with TUS? Counting what? All the free leagues? For how long in time? Want a fair comparison? Try adding up FB and CL2K stats, and whatever random league was around for the noobies that couldn't rope and settled for chute racing. It's bullshit. There's people in the top 8 not making it due to inactivity, this happened how much in FB? Once? Twice?

I give you numbers, you give me thoughtless whining and screaming about how everybody else is an idiot.

You give me numbers because you don't know better. And they're partial, uninformative and have nothing to do with the points I'm making, as covered above.

If this league is such a low skilled one, how about proving that point? Shouldn't be too hard to raise your winning percentage of 40% on TUS. Baseless assertions are just that. Meaningless. Show some substance in your arguments, ropa. Back it up with facts. You know, the way adults do.

Skill is irrelevant. You're missing the point completely. It doesn't matter that roping takes more skill than chute racing. What manes is that you're never going to build a community around chute racing and have people stay interested. We covered depth long ago.
I've given enough facts and opinion on this topic over the years, sorry if 6 years later I'm less inclined to chew this stuff up so every idiot and their mother can understand or dress it with kind words and a suck up here and there so I get more support. That's more your game.

This league has been putting all its efforts at growing in numbers regardless of the quality of said numbers, since it takes no effort to come here and play whatever random scheme, it takes no effort to leave (this is a saying, not a literal argument), now you throws money as a clear last resot, the hipocrisy here is not only that you've finally taken a step to foment competition, but that you've been ignoring the calls for 6 years and now tell me to back this shit up with facts?

Go read my posts for the last 6 years with the word "community" in it, might get a grasp on sociology and internet science.

pd: we have komodo here now reviving darts proving my reasoning wrong with actions, let's see for how long and if he actually proves my depth argument right, or wrong.

[TheKomodo]

Well said D1, keep it up

[Statik]

So what you gonna do?

[GreatProfe]

lets close all forums, it will force people to join #ag to have some conversation.

[KinslayeR]

finally smart words

[Chicken23]

This discussions from ropa and D1 at this stage arn't really adding value to the problem. Its just discussing the the trends in who was better in certain era's compared to others. Obviously the game will evolve tho and people have naturally created new schemes, probably because classic never appealed and the activity of classic leagues has decreased, you'd naturally try something new. I used to enjoy the odd BR or CTF or that scheme cueshark made with cows and how far you could blast your worm. But i wouldn't join a BR and CTF league.

Anyway, this thread should be about what we can do to get more people back into classic and playing clanners and as Tomi and others have said, just reducing the limit for playoffs and winning ratio will make a difference.

Go look at season 1, and season 2 of tus. There was playoffs and some clans made less than 20 games. The games increased because the activity of tus increased, as the activity decreases, so should the PO requirements to reflect this. Unfortunately MI hasn't had time to code and make these updates when it was suggested a few times before this season and the fact there's been no playoffs for 4 seasons is what has demotivated players to search... I'd say thats the biggest thing compared to what type of schemes you like playing... there's enough people who like classic, they just don't have the time to find 70 clanners in a season and not enough clans to have 4 with 50% winning ratio. Addressing this will prompt people to play again and its already a plan that is in motion. Chill out and see if it works.

[Ray]

This discussions from ropa and D1 at this stage arn't really adding value to the problem. Its just discussing the the trends in who was better in certain era's compared to others. Obviously the game will evolve tho and people have naturally created new schemes, probably because classic never appealed and the activity of classic leagues has decreased, you'd naturally try something new. I used to enjoy the odd BR or CTF or that scheme cueshark made with cows and how far you could blast your worm. But i wouldn't join a BR and CTF league.

Anyway, this thread should be about what we can do to get more people back into classic and playing clanners and as Tomi and others have said, just reducing the limit for playoffs and winning ratio will make a difference.

Go look at season 1, and season 2 of tus. There was playoffs and some clans made less than 20 games. The games increased because the activity of tus increased, as the activity decreases, so should the PO requirements to reflect this. Unfortunately MI hasn't had time to code and make these updates when it was suggested a few times before this season and the fact there's been no playoffs for 4 seasons is what has demotivated players to search... I'd say thats the biggest thing compared to what type of schemes you like playing... there's enough people who like classic, they just don't have the time to find 70 clanners in a season and not enough clans to have 4 with 50% winning ratio. Addressing this will prompt people to play again and its already a plan that is in motion. Chill out and see if it works.

I would like to see the results of what you are suggesting Chicken, I really do, but I believe it would only serve as a temporary solution.

The discussion that's going on here is just really two different views on what's important in order to keep something enjoyable that we are all very much passionate about. Very simply put, one side prefers quality over quantity, because good quality bring more quantity over time. The other side, is the exact opposite. You can keep pointing fingers and play the game of "Who f@#!ed it up?" for years, but we are all mature enough and have experienced this on these exact forums many times, that pointing fingers does not result in solutions.

How about we focus on our problems, break them down to smaller pieces and try to solve each of those individually by providing some points from each side and try to come to an agreement? We will never be able to pleasure everyone, but f@#!, with so many experienced and may I say smart, bright people, we sure as hell can come up with ideas, come to an agreement and execute them in order to tackle the problems, not to tackle individual taste.