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Author Topic: Books thread  (Read 7449 times)

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Offline darKz

Re: Books thread
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2012, 11:56 PM »
I've finished reading "Discours sur l’origine et les fondements de l’inégalité parmi les hommes" by Jean-Jacques Rousseau a while ago, was the last real book I read. It was recommended by my best mate, he's really into education/philosophy. I can safely say it's the best book I've read so far, it really makes you think about our current society and how it turned out to be like it is today.
I remember knowing who it was but dont remember exactly what I knew
~ Dubc 2010

Offline HHC

Re: Books thread
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2012, 01:44 PM »
Elaborate dark? What is wrong with our current society/education?


I finished Boerhaave a week ago, glad it was done. A 350 page book about a scientist who never really leaves his university is quite a bit over the edge  :) Was good to read though, learned a lot about science in his days, I particularly liked reading about Linnaeus and his plants  :)

Anyway, now reading:


“HHhH” is about the rise and fall of Reinhard Heydrich, the monster whom even Hitler called “the man with the iron heart.” As Binet puts it, Heydrich is not the protagonist of this book but its target; almost anywhere you look in the politics of the Third Reich, “and particularly among its most terrifying aspects, Heydrich is there—at the center of everything.” “Himmlers Hirn heisst Heydrich,” people would say: “Himmler’s brain is called Heydrich.” (Thus “HHhH.”)

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2012/05/21/120521crbo_books_wood#ixzz2CxTF0zHQ

It reads like a novel, but it tries to keep to the facts... although some passages are 'envisioned' by the author, he explicitly says so everytime his mind wanders off  :)

Only thing that bugs me is his (extreme) lefty way of looking at the events. There's no sympathy for Heydrich, at all, he's portrayed as an evil genious. There's some truth in that, but it's not a very fruitful way to understand historical figures. Much the same as you don't really get anywhere when you can only see Hitler as the incarnation of the antichrist (rather than as a regular human being).

Neway, enjoying it  :)
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 01:45 PM by HHC »

Offline philie

Re: Books thread
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2012, 01:24 AM »
i'm a huge fan of hunter s. thompson, and i happen to be a lucky bastard, who got his hands on a signed book of "curse of lono" (limited to 1000 books).



it also contains lots of awesome drawings by ralph steadman.

...my edition might be a bit expensive, but if you like hunter s. thompson (fear and loathing in las vegas): there's also a cheap, small hardcover edition available.

here's an excerpt:


Offline l7cx1Cl

Re: Books thread
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2012, 02:19 AM »
Hobbit baby! Must read before the movie!


Offline darKz

Re: Books thread
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2012, 02:53 AM »
Elaborate dark? What is wrong with our current society/education?

There's poor people, filthy rich people who just don't care, sick people, murderers, molesters, bank robbers and the list goes on... Rousseau deducts how humans went from their "natural condition" to what they are now and his way of explaining the entire process made a lot of sense to me (I was surprised actually). If you're into philosophy even just a little I'd really recommend reading it. There's gotta be a dutch version. :)

Thanks for bumping the thread philie, missed that post. :D Nice trophy btw, I love Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. I think I saw that movie like 10 times now, never gets old. xD
I remember knowing who it was but dont remember exactly what I knew
~ Dubc 2010

Offline van

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Re: Books thread
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2012, 03:02 AM »
i'm a huge fan of hunter s. thompson, and i happen to be a lucky bastard, who got his hands on a signed book of "curse of lono" (limited to 1000 books).



it also contains lots of awesome drawings by ralph steadman.

...my edition might be a bit expensive, but if you like hunter s. thompson (fear and loathing in las vegas): there's also a cheap, small hardcover edition available.

here's an excerpt:



Oh you bastard, lol. How did you get your hands on that? Must be one of my favourite writers together with Bukowski.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 03:08 AM by van »

Offline lalo

Re: Books thread
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2012, 03:59 AM »
Anyway, now reading:


“HHhH” is about the rise and fall of Reinhard Heydrich, the monster whom even Hitler called “the man with the iron heart.” As Binet puts it, Heydrich is not the protagonist of this book but its target; almost anywhere you look in the politics of the Third Reich, “and particularly among its most terrifying aspects, Heydrich is there—at the center of everything.” “Himmlers Hirn heisst Heydrich,” people would say: “Himmler’s brain is called Heydrich.” (Thus “HHhH.”)

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2012/05/21/120521crbo_books_wood#ixzz2CxTF0zHQ

It reads like a novel, but it tries to keep to the facts... although some passages are 'envisioned' by the author, he explicitly says so everytime his mind wanders off  :)

Only thing that bugs me is his (extreme) lefty way of looking at the events. There's no sympathy for Heydrich, at all, he's portrayed as an evil genious. There's some truth in that, but it's not a very fruitful way to understand historical figures. Much the same as you don't really get anywhere when you can only see Hitler as the incarnation of the antichrist (rather than as a regular human being).

Neway, enjoying it  :)

I could read a lot about Heydrich when I was in Prague; he was a genious, indeed, but his overconfidence dig his own grave.
That book looks really interesting HHC, I'd like to have it in my hands for a couple of days. Unfortunately, that kind of literature is really diffcult to find in Chile plus too expensive, one of the things that I miss about UK  :(, but I bought lots of books during my stay there and most of them about history ::)

Offline philie

Re: Books thread
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2012, 11:03 AM »
Oh you bastard, lol. How did you get your hands on that? Must be one of my favourite writers together with Bukowski.

i preordered it a 3/4 year before the release for 600 euros...  :o

edit: you can still get it for 800 - 1200 $ on ebay
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 11:12 AM by philie »

Offline HHC

Re: Books thread
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2012, 11:38 AM »
Cool lalo  :)

I'm pretty sure this one is not too hard to find. It was BIG in France and got quite some attention here as well.

I'm near the end now and it's a pretty good book. It's definitely not perfect if you want to (quickly) read up on some factual history, there's a lot of novellish gibberish y'know :D . But if you're more into that kind of literature it's probably a lot nicer to read.
I for one can't wait to get to the end. I never knew much about Heydrich, let alone about his assassination. That keeps some of the suspense  :)

I would have finished a while ago, but I also got 2 other books to finish up on:

The original Dutch one has a less theatrical cover :D
It speaks for itself I guess. A little disappointing so far though. Fik Meijer is an awesome author on classical history, so maybe my hopes were a little high, but so far, it's not as entertaining as some of his other works. Still a good read though. And the fun stuff is still to come it seems (I'm halfway through). At the end of the book he compares the real stuff to the way gladiators are portrayed in movies, like Spartacus and Gladiator. Should be nice to read that as well :)

+


Won the award for best Dutch history book of 2012. It's a book about the Dutch people's knowledge about and thoughts towards the persecution of jews.

Komo-mode on:
I read a book about it last year, written by some lefty radical who pretty much butchered everyone involved for being 'indifferent' to outright 'cooperative'.
This study is WAY more balanced. It doesn't simply go by: 'Holland has the highest % of deported/killed jews, thus antisemite, or at least indifferent, or cowardice', but the author tries to reconstruct how people thought and felt about the occupation and the deportation and from there tries to understand why people behaved as they did (no intervention, 'sheepish' cooperation).

From diaries and other non-censored sources it quickly becomes clear that virtually all Dutch were appaled by the Nazi behaviour towards the Jews. Nevertheless, they (both non-Jewish-Dutch and Jewish-Dutch) failed to act. The reason for this is basically twofold:
1) they could not act, even if they wanted to. Any real resistance was quickly and very harshly surpressed by the occupiers. Acts of rebellion were paid back tenfold. Resistance, and particularly, armed resistance... the kind we admire so much today, had in practice almost solely very negative consequences. This is also why the government in exile in London warned civilians not to indulge in these 'foolish' acts, but to wait 'till the allied forces were near enough. In short, the people were powerless. Their intentions may have been right, but they were simply unable to make a stand. Hence, the vast majority of 'resistance' was limited to a very passive form: being extra-nice to the jews and generally being uncooperative in every way.

2) the people didn't actually know about the Holocaust as we understand it today. Stories of mass-executions were already known by late 1942 and stories of deathcamps and gas chambers followed soon after. But the information was often contradictory, sometimes correct, but also often false. The German project was purposefully misleading. The camp in Theresienstadt in the Czech Rep. for example was a 'model' camp where life was actually pretty good. From here letters reached the west stating that life was hard, but endurable. It was also in this camp that the Red Cross was invited. It was much harder, near impossible, to get any news out of the real deathcamps like Auschwitz and Sobibor.
This contradictory information led to skepticism in the West and the fate of the jews remained obscure. 'The East' stood for many things: colonization of Russian territory/hard work/hunger/executions/oppression/etc.etc. Everyone knew it was gonna suck over there, but nobody knew what really was at stake: 'merely' hard work and hunger or almost instant death in gaschambers or mass-executions. This is why most jews were not at all eager to be send there, but they still went.

For the Dutch civilians, the information was equally misleading. They knew the jews were hit hard by the nazi's, but they failed to see it as a special project, as an extermination campaign pur-sang. Rather, they saw it as just another expression of the German tyrannical rule that was aimed at the whole of the Dutch people, rather than just to one special group. Deportation was also not limited to jews only. POW's and political prisoners had been deported before, as well as a group of students who were sent to Germany as payback for resistance. After that came the large 'deportation' of Dutch workers who were sent to help out in the German industry. Naturally, all of this made it hard to make out the special place of the Holocaust in all these movements and oppressions.

Finally, there's the role of the English and American governments. They too were skeptic and it was only in late 1942 that they felt confident enough about the validity of the information that reached them that they send out a special message confirming the horrible faith of the Jewish populace in Europe. After that, however, they remained silent, almost to the very end of the war. The main reason for this is that they didn't want to entice the nazi's and to prevent the war from being explained in terms of supporters of jews -vs- enemies of jews. Thus, they could not single out the jews as sole, or at least, most important victims. For a unified homefront they needed to propagate the idea of a war between the nazi's and the entire free world.
Doesn't take away the fact though that more could have been done behind the screens, both in Europe and abroad. But yeah, it's not fair to say people knew what the Holocaust really was, or that they could have taken serious steps to prevent it from happening and certainly not that they chose not to act, out of indifference or even antisemitism.



The book doesn't present any real new insights to me, but it's nice to see that a book like this won the most prestigious prize in the field as it is certainly not the kind of stuff some people like to hear.
Cause yeah, the myth of Dutch collaboration with the deportation of jews has been a good beating stick of radical lefties whenever the topic of immigration pops up.
Don't think this book will fix that, as it's not in any top10 lists yet and the myth is very perseverant. But yeah, it's a nice start to see this book being valued by at least some people.

@dark: i'll put it on my to-do list.
@philie: woa, that's some serious shit!  :D
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 11:41 AM by HHC »

Offline theredi

Re: Books thread
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2012, 07:15 PM »
Sword of Truth, this book inspired me hard to be who i am nowadays

Offline Anubis

Re: Books thread
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2012, 07:54 PM »
The only books I own are about Star Trek.

Offline Peja

Re: Books thread
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2012, 08:01 PM »
anubis now i really love you  ;D
VoK: i have now beer so my rope will be perfect.
 VoK: will do ttrr every map under 30s

Offline nino

Re: Books thread
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2012, 08:05 PM »
anubis now i really love you  ;D

Avirex need to know that :D
You Are Losing Time Reading my Signature.

Re: Books thread
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2012, 08:19 PM »
Reading this now:

The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand.
Great read so far, was inspired to read more Rand after reading Atlas Shrugged.  Reading Atlas Shrugged was the biggest single influential experience ive ever had since reading the Bible for the first time.  The fountainhead is similarly good so far.  I would recommend both books.

yuck, you would say that about Ayn Rand, you libertarian scum!
  <-- my brain when I clan with avi

Offline TheWalrus

Re: Books thread
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2012, 12:30 AM »
yuck, you would say that about Ayn Rand, you libertarian scum!
haha i was browsing the forums and I saw this thread with you as the most recent poster and I knew you'd be commenting on this.  Once you graduate college or get a real job you'll understand Ayn Rand's writings and conservative fiscal policy.  One day you will come back and praise me for showing you the way to capitalism.  Remember, Rand came from a communist background like yourself, shy. 
That book looks really interesting HHC, I'd like to have it in my hands for a couple of days. Unfortunately, that kind of literature is really diffcult to find in Chile plus too expensive, one of the things that I miss about UK  :(, but I bought lots of books during my stay there and most of them about history ::)
Look to Joseph Goebbels if you want the reals brains behind the rise of the Nazi party, without Goebbels, there would be no Heydrich.  I ordered the book today, HHC.  I love WW2 history, i've read at least 4 or 5 books, but mostly on the conflict rather than the hierarchy of the German military leadership.  The more I read about Germany in WW2, the more I realize what a buffoon Himmler was, and what a genius Rommel was.  I guess it really wouldn't have mattered since either way they still had a lunatic megalomaniac as the supreme leader of the armed forces.