The Big Religion/God Debate

[Abnaxus]

So I'll ask one single question as an answer to all of this:

What if there is a natural/realistic/scientific reason for the now called "supernatural" things ? What if we're just not yet able to find those reasons ?

What I tell from the very start is that we know a lot about the earth, but what if that "lot" is just 10% of the whole thing ?

Cue (and every others tho): Do not conclude too hastily, that's all I have to say.

Edit: Yeah, the single question is parted in 3 questions. xD

[Cueshark]

What if there is a natural/realistic/scientific reason for the now called "supernatural" things ?

I believe there already are natural and realistic reasons for 'supernatural' things.

Tell me about something you would consider supernatural that you don't think has been explained yet.

[Aerox]

when townsfolk see virgin aparitions.

why is it always village people that see them?

[DarkOne]

I sincerely have a problem with people trying to make their point with "look at what we don't know!". If you can't make your point with things you know/can explain/can reason, then you don't have a point.

We make our conclusions on the things we know, not on the things we don't know. If we're going to make conclusions based on what we don't know, then nobody can function at any job/project/hobby/whatever. It's not a hasty conclusion if all the evidence points to a certain conclusion.

About using "supernatural" as an argument. Can anyone explain the difference between supernatural and magic? If you can't explain it, then that means you would be using magic as an argument - do you really want to do that?

[sock]

I sincerely have a problem with people trying to make their point with "look at what we don't know!". If you can't make your point with things you know/can explain/can reason, then you don't have a point.

We make our conclusions on the things we know, not on the things we don't know. If we're going to make conclusions based on what we don't know, then nobody can function at any job/project/hobby/whatever. It's not a hasty conclusion if all the evidence points to a certain conclusion.

About using "supernatural" as an argument. Can anyone explain the difference between supernatural and magic? If you can't explain it, then that means you would be using magic as an argument - do you really want to do that?

Hmm... I'll make my conclusion on what I know, and what I think know is you might have taken this out of context.

[Free]

EVERYTHING I'M ABOUT TO SAY IS MY OPINION ONLY. I'm not trying to force feed anyone anything.. but I understand these are tender subjects  so I wanted to make sure everyone understands this.

Nothing is really "supernatural" as it all falls into "natural" category once you have higher understanding of surrounding reality.

YOUniversum as Consciousness and "us" is ultimately all just Energy which vibrates on different frequencies.. and when "your" consciousness vibrates on different frequencies, you experience the nature of things differently. Therefore you have different understanding of surrounding reality when your consciousness hits higher/lower frequencies. The amount of data you can process on your current frequency and "supernatural" frequencies is VERY different.. and this is what changes people. You've experienced more than you thought was ever even possible.

I've visited frequencies that most would consider "supernatural".. and visiting those higher manifestations of consciousness has changed me and the way I perceive the surrounding reality.

I had to explain all this so you would understand where I'm coming from and what I'm truly trying to say.

Dualistic point of view means that if there is darkness there has to be light, if there is good there has to be bad etc. When you filter your surrounding reality from dualistic point of view... I believe you are missing out on the TRUE nature of things.

Everything that is/was/will be experienced, has its origin on the ABSOLUTE CORE TRUTH (we are energy) and it's only our MAN MADE LABELS that give meaning to things that we perceive with our senses.. so nothing is really dualistic in the true nature of experiencing reality. It's all pure truth, whatever happens.. whether you play a game of worms or whether you die. Nothing actually changes, it's just your dualistic point of view which might think otherwise. <- This is key point to understand IMO.

I believe that when we started to separate from collective/unite consciousness to singular consciousness we lost touch to our true CORE self.. which I believe to be everlasting (as we/consciousness/YOUniversum is all just energy that vibrate on different frequencies).

My point of view when it comes to experiencing surrounding reality changed from singular to collective once "I" visited those higher frequencies with more data to acquire

Even though we might experience inviduality.. we are all the same consciousness with NO separation.

This makes me believe that we are all God (or whatever you want to call it) and you can't be taken away from your MAIN SOURCE. You have always been and will always be, just your consciousness frequency changes (as the human mind understands it). We are EVERYTHING that we can experience, whether it's human experience or just a "blank empty void" (as most of us think of death).

Think of dreams for a small example if this all seems hard to grasp (which I'm SURE it does, but I do understand where you might be coming from).

You can create/experience ANYTHING you want (astral travel/lucid dreaming) without the limits of your physical body.. and these are just the frequencies that we can experience with "brain-consciousness".. and in the end.. you have created this whole human experience yourself.. your pretty damn good. Why do you think you can't create endless other dimensions/life forms AT WILL when the limits of your physical body are removed?

If someone is interested of the history I've had so I could visit these "high" frequency places with massive amount of information to gain it all started with a "substance" called Ayahuasca which mainly contains substance called DMT.
It's said that humans produce DMT in their pineal gland (third eye) and it's believed to be the main activator of dream states (not scientifically proven yet, but pretty damn close). This said Ayahuasca only opened my eyes and made me from "doubter" to "believer" and I still work with myself day by day to become as "Free" as I can be, so it's not a magic pill to fix everything.

You can google or youtube documentaries of DMT and Ayahuasca if your interested.

!!! It can be also really terrifying to experience something this profound as your "socially and culturally" programmed mind ain't used to it. I'm not suggesting ANYONE of you try DMT or Ayahuasca without serious knowledge and information of what you are about to do. I truly suggest that you try it with a Shaman that has experience with Ayahuasca. !!!

Remember guys, these are only my opinions and experiences of surrounding reality, I respect each and everyone's opinion on the matter.

[DarkOne]

Hmm... I'll make my conclusion on what I know, and what I think know is you might have taken this out of context.

The supernatural thing is something I saw in several posts and I see it used a bit too often for my taste as "proof" of something someone believes in.
The first thing: just look at Abnaxus' post

[Ramone]

It's not out of context, I see it as a reply to Abnax, no? ;x

I sincerely have a problem with people trying to make their point with "look at what we don't know!".
...

"Look at what we don't know" in combination with "what if.." Yeah, it's hard to communicate with those ppl.. It's like those astrology guys/chicks.. Hard to explain anyshit and after some time U give up and let them be.

And just for the record, there's three of "what if" in Abnax 1 simple question..  .. .
There's a saying here about those "what if's"... says "If grandma had a dick she would be grandpa!" ;x

[sock]

It's not out of context, I see it as a reply to Abnax, no? ;x

Sure it's in context, if you see it just as a reply to abnax 

[sock]

Hmm... I'll make my conclusion on what I know, and what I think know is you might have taken this out of context.

The supernatural thing is something I saw in several posts and I see it used a bit too often for my taste as "proof" of something someone believes in.
The first thing: just look at Abnaxus' post

Im with ya here

[Ramone]

Sure it's in context, if you see it just as a reply to abnax 

Dunno how do U see it, but we're both out of context after Free's post..   
And where have U find the context at the first place? It's a God/religion debate, can't expect any context there, can U? ;x

[TheKomodo]

Quite interesting read Free, thanks for that

But I still just see it as another "theory" that some "humans" have thought up, and if it were true what you say, I wouldn't like that reality... I think it'd suck lol.

Edit:  The one thing that bothered me:

"Everything that is/was/will be experienced, has its origin on the ABSOLUTE CORE TRUTH (we are energy) and it's only our MAN MADE LABELS that give meaning to things that we perceive with our senses.. so nothing is really dualistic in the true nature of experiencing reality. It's all pure truth, whatever happens.. whether you play a game of worms or whether you die. Nothing actually changes, it's just your dualistic point of view which might think otherwise. <- This is key point to understand IMO."

I don't agree based on this one simple thing, without any knowledge of anything, any human/live being, they know the difference between pain and pleasure, without anyone telling them "pain - pleasure" they will be able to seperate the 2, they might not use the words "good/bad" but they will certainly be aware of which one they like and which one they don't which is basically good and bad isn't it?

Oh and, not that I feel it's a good thing or a bad thing, it's not my business, but I just think at the end of the day, why the hell should we have to take drugs to experience such a thing?

*LOL I made such a f@#!up editing this hope you didn't read it yet xD*

[sock]

Sure it's in context, if you see it just as a reply to abnax  

Dunno how do U see it, but we're both out of context after Free's post..  
And where have U find the context at the first place? It's a God/religion debate, can't expect any context there, can U? ;x

yes

[HHC]

YOUniversum as Consciousness and "us" is ultimately all just Energy which vibrates on different frequencies.. and when "your" consciousness vibrates on different frequencies, you experience the nature of things differently. Therefore you have different understanding of surrounding reality when your consciousness hits higher/lower frequencies. The amount of data you can process on your current frequency and "supernatural" frequencies is VERY different.. and this is what changes people. You've experienced more than you thought was ever even possible.

What do you mean by 'frequencies'?

I reckon that mankind has a very limited sense of what reality really is. We operate by a 'mere' 5 senses, surely we miss out on a lot of things. But there's science..
So let me be straightforward: what is it that science is missing according to you? Which 'frequencies' are they overlooking?
Are they frequencies that could potentially be unlocked? As in, are they scientifically 'measurable'?

Everything that is/was/will be experienced, has its origin on the ABSOLUTE CORE TRUTH (we are energy) and it's only our MAN MADE LABELS that give meaning to things that we perceive with our senses.. so nothing is really dualistic in the true nature of experiencing reality. It's all pure truth, whatever happens.. whether you play a game of worms or whether you die. Nothing actually changes, it's just your dualistic point of view which might think otherwise. <- This is key point to understand IMO.

That's a very odd comparison... worms vs death. Can you elaborate on it a little more (as you say it's a key point). I guess 'you' (as in 'energy') remain the same after death? What changes over a game of worms then?  

I believe that when we started to separate from collective/unite consciousness to singular consciousness we lost touch to our true CORE self.. which I believe to be everlasting (as we/consciousness/YOUniversum is all just energy that vibrate on different frequencies).

When did we lose this? At the act of birth? Or during childhood?

You can create/experience ANYTHING you want (astral travel/lucid dreaming) without the limits of your physical body.. and these are just the frequencies that we can experience with "brain-consciousness".. and in the end.. you have created this whole human experience yourself.. your pretty damn good.

Do you do lucid dreaming too? What's your method?

Why do you think you can't create endless other dimensions/life forms AT WILL when the limits of your physical body are removed?

Would you consider this dimension a 'dream' of our own making?

It's said that humans produce DMT in their pineal gland (third eye) and it's believed to be the main activator of dream states (not scientifically proven yet, but pretty damn close).

I kinda feel DMT-trips are a lot different than dreams are they not? I've never had a dream that sparked visions anything similar to what DMT-users seem to report (or near death experiences which are said to be caused by DMT being produced/released).



Did you take this up in Amsterdam? Lol  

Cool though, I've read stuff on DMT before (and it's spiritual qualities). I still havent made up my mind though whether the things you 'see' when you're on DMT really hold any objective truth or meaning, or whether they are merely illusions.
I mean, there's lots of things people see when they do drugs and even basic alcohol can make you experience reality pretty differently than normal. How can you tell whether this drug is truly sparking visions of reality?

If you don't wanna go off topic here free I certainly wouldn't mind a PM  
I don't often meet people who have valuable information for me  

And I guess I'm also dying to hear that this 0-2 vs mm of tonight was but an illusion  

[TheKomodo]

Oh and Free, all that stuff you are talking about, lucid dreams, astral projection etc, it's stuff that has fascinated me for years, I like how this life provides the chance for people to enjoy such a thing

Edit: On what HHC said, please don't PM him, please share it here with all of us, I am very curious to see his questions answered, or at least send a PM to me as well Free