Lets work on the proper 3s turn time scheme

[lacoste]

Seems like ill have to totally get rid of "hysteria" in topic title.

Also Dennis, did you even try that scheme yet? What makes you think its slower and less skill demanding?

"I absolutely prefer flow and skill." - well, this scheme is all about flow and skill. Even more than hyst, just try it and dont get confused too often. I'll give you that half of the turns (at least) you will get lost. Something like this needs time to be very good at and thats the true factor of league scheme.

[DENnis]

No, I meant as a NEW scheme it would be ok and np for me, just don't remove hysteria.

I remember aerial, thought it would be simular. In my definition: Bigger Luck-Factor = Less skill

Just see what happens. You have more worms up and start. So you had not only a whole attack more if u won, ur game start with a too big advantage. If u r up u can attack almost every turn if u r good.

That 1 who is down is much easier to attack while for that1 who is down it is much more difficult to attack and to hide. You cant say it is always like that and always like that, it is just a very little factor of the whole scheme I don't like.

I'm not good at Jetpack so you cant compare my skill with the skill of pros. You always have to compare people on the same skilllevel.

Now look at the guy with more worms down who get - b4 his game starts. How shall he win? To counter his disadvantage he has 2 possibilities:

1) If you r on the same skilllevel as ur opponent, you cant win. So you have to hope that your opponent fails at least 2 turns.
2) You have to be much better than ur opponent, then it is like in every scheme except comet dodging: You will get a deserved victory.

To 2) In hysteria you just have to be 1x better than ur opponent to win.
in 3 sec scheme you can still lose if you r only 1x better than ur opponent because of too much unfair disadvantage.


But of c new ideas r always good and will be fun, too. I just tryed to say why I prefer the 1 sec scheme

[Flori]

No, I meant as a NEW scheme it would be ok and np for me, just don't remove hysteria.

I remember aerial, thought it would be simular. In my definition: Bigger Luck-Factor = Less skill

Just see what happens. You have more worms up and start. So you had not only a whole attack more if u won, ur game start with a too big advantage. If u r up u can attack almost every turn if u r good.

That 1 who is down is much easier to attack while for that1 who is down it is much more difficult to attack and to hide. You cant say it is always like that and always like that, it is just a very little factor of the whole scheme I don't like.

I'm not good at Jetpack so you cant compare my skill with the skill of pros. You always have to compare people on the same skilllevel.

Now look at the guy with more worms down who get - b4 his game starts. How shall he win? To counter his disadvantage he has 2 possibilities:

1) If you r on the same skilllevel as ur opponent, you cant win. So you have to hope that your opponent fails at least 2 turns.
2) You have to be much better than ur opponent, then it is like in every scheme except comet dodging: You will get a deserved victory.

To 2) In hysteria you just have to be 1x better than ur opponent to win.
in 3 sec scheme you can still lose if you r only 1x better than ur opponent because of too much unfair disadvantage.


But of c new ideas r always good and will be fun, too. I just tryed to say why I prefer the 1 sec scheme

Didn't understand anything

[DENnis]

Didn't understand anything

Thats np, you wont be alone with that, it is a long complicated text.

Maybe with this metaphor you will understand point 1 of the luck-factor:


You play ttrr. Your opponent has 3 turns. You have 2 turns. If u r better you will win anyway. In the most cases some1 is better, so dont care about this then.

If you r on the same skilllevel and improve everyturn a bit, that 1 with 1 turn more has a big advantage.


And the other thing is just: if u have almost no hides (so u r too easy to attack) u will probably lose.

[darKz]

Have you ever played and came to understand Elite? There's always one player going second, in fact in every scheme there is someone going second because WA is a turn based game.

I don't see the validity in your argument and I don't see how going first is a bigger advantage in a Hysteria-like scheme with 3s turn time than it is in any other scheme. In Elite it's not much of an advantage by the way.

[lacoste]

That would have to be hell of unlucky game when most of your worms were unable to deal some damage on their first turn. But even if so, it also makes them safe, right? Theres allways a solution, even if you are screwed badly at start. Anyway every flaw will come with time, im not rushing anything.

Also dont confuse this scheme with Aerial - its almost the same, but yet very different. I cant find anything luck dependend other than placement (which is briefly explained above) and wind.

[zippeurfou]

ok, I read your post and analysed what could be the best scheme and I came up with this scheme: http://www.sendspace.com/file/58kv1w
We were supposed to try to tus hysteria on it with komo but it's too late and I am falling asleep.
I do think it is the best alternative scheme for hysteria around !
Don't forget: "if both player agree to play in an alternative scheme, you can play it in tus" So don't be shy and tus on it !

[darKz]

I sincerely hope you're trolling Fada, that scheme is a joke.

[fr4nk]

To 2) In hysteria you just have to be 1x better than ur opponent to win.
in 3 sec scheme you can still lose if you r only 1x better than ur opponent because of too much unfair disadvantage.

Better in what? In teleporting your worm on a side? In 3 seconds you can save better your ass, or make a good attack and hide.
This requires some skills and thinking, not a damn teleport-kill-pile scheme where you plop your own worms to win the game!!!

[zippeurfou]

I sincerely hope you're trolling Fada, that scheme is a joke.

shh you're killing the fun :p

[DENnis]

To 2) In hysteria you just have to be 1x better than ur opponent to win.
in 3 sec scheme you can still lose if you r only 1x better than ur opponent because of too much unfair disadvantage.

Better in what? In teleporting your worm on a side? In 3 seconds you can save better your ass, or make a good attack and hide.
This requires some skills and thinking, not a damn teleport-kill-pile scheme where you plop your own worms to win the game!!!

Better in the scheme at all.

Luck/Placement is just a little factor. It doesnt deserve to talk so long about it.

The problem is: 3 sec + Jetpack ... if u r on top of the map u can attack almost every turn if u r good. The other guy just can darkside to not die first. If he has a darkside hide he would have a problem to attack. It is just more difficult to win then, not impossible .. It is easier to attack him and it is more complicated for him to attack.

That1 who has an esier game just have a bigger chance to win. If theres a CHANCE it doesnt mean that he would use it perfect enough. At top u need hides, too.

And there r enough other factors like skill and brainperformance like u alrdy said.

90% should be deserved victories. There r rlly less games with too unfair advantages.

-

And back to 1 sec:

There r just much more possible good hides because the opponent cant hit u everywhere as easy as with 3 secs. Hiding is one of the most important thing to win and u need to think where could be a good hide.

-

The only and important thing I would change at 1 sec is the SD clock ... to miss 10 turns is just too long. I would say put it down to 5 and it will kill long lame darksiding, because u can decide to let the water rise much earlier. Not all this clumsy waiting, I hate darksiding.

--

And you dont need to plop ur own worms to win. Just think more than only 1 step and pile ur own worms in the right moment so that telecow wouldnt make much sense for ur opponent. If he telecow you, you will still win because of more hp if u did it correct. There are more possibilities than just the cursorily tactics to let the game end faster.

[lacoste]

Once again, dont talk about Hysteria in this thread.

[fr4nk]

Dennis, manual placements would solve anything you are talking about.
Anyway, we should give a try to this scheme.

[lacoste]

Theres easy solution for being raped by placement - avoid having too many closed places when picking/reseeding the map at the same time trying to make it as complex as possible without big plop holes and straight ground in the middle.
Manual placement is bad just like it would be in Intermediate for example.
About 1 player having to put more effort to win a game - theres nothing wrong about it. Many schemes work that way. 3s turn is no big deal - you can either block your opponent, tele out somewhere safe or do something clever.

[fr4nk]

Yeh, and it's pratically impossible to have all 4 worms closed while the other team has them placed on the top map.