Parachute in Rope Based Schemes

[Kradie]

I've been roping without parachute since the inception of ZaR community. Recent years I have been thinking ''Why do we need parachute in popular rope schemes? It totally feels like trainer mode is enabled holding your hand''.  New people that comes to my rope games without parachute  doesn't always question the absence of parachute, instead they try to adapt. Many have successfully adapted and accepted the punishment that comes with no parachute and improved. It is fun for them to overcome and that's why it is so enjoyable.

Big Zar RR have batty to compensate for lack of parachute, and allows for risky climbs. That's why people like, the reward of  calculating the release of bazooka and eluding its blast radius. It takes certain skills just to do that in nick of time.

No no ladies, I am not dismissing parachute, and disputing the fact it is useful in certain scenarios. But the question is, do we really need it? Do we need to depend on parachute to save us?

[Jengu]

Shopper is better with parachutes. Big RR is slightly better with parachutes. Otherwise I prefer schemes without them.

[Ninja]

Why dont you people who likes to play without parachute just dont active this? Why to remove parachute from scheme? Who wants to rope with parachute active and who dont like to play with parachute just dont active...

[Kaleu]

My opinion is, there's more skill and strategy involving rope knocking (high fall pile, hide etc), than trying to don't lose your turn playing with half speed plus great chances to end up panicking with a self hit zook lol.
This statement is limited to battle rope schemes. Racing schemes are argueable.

[Aladdin]

f@#! the parachute! in my opinion it should be extinguished in the rope games.

[Sensei]

We shouldn't promote drug use on TUS.
Do it in safety of your home guys, stop sharing opinions with others when you're high.

No parachute... 

[WTF-8]

I'd miss lazy falls

[Kradie]

If you can't rope with full speed with no parachute, then you surely lack confidence in your own ability. There's many form of roping, but if you are only about showing off, doing 10 tricks in one short turn, then you are better off doing that in a warmer or trick race. Why even play roper or even a shopper where there are 30s and do hundreds of tricks before attacking? Sure, one could argue ''It is fun and enjoyable'' And to some extent I do agree. But isn't it better just to do a nice efficient turn, with a few cool tricks that can benefit the turn in hand? Why do you even have to compromise your turn with risky moves where parachute saves you on each possible fail? It is better to do these risky moves when they are called for, otherwise you will look incompetent for each time parachute activates.

I have seen experienced ropers fail over and over because they favor freestyle and recklessness over efficiency. You can be just as fast if you just adapt.

It is kind of sad, that people are so reliant on this trainer mode it is embarrassing. To be honest, parachute should only be in warmers.

[Sensei]

He didn't talk about zar in awhile.. This thread could turn into it. Just wait, people.

[WTF-8]

If you can't rope with full speed with no parachute, then you surely lack confidence in your own ability

how about skill and equipment? I can't rope with full speed even with parachute

[Triad]

No offense Kradie, and don't take it personally, but in my personal opinion Big ZaR RR is the dumbest ZaR variant or Big RR variant I have ever seen yet.

So Big RR is almost completely luck free scheme, right? There are two minor things preventing it to be 100% luck free. One of them is parachute. Since wind value is always random, it adds a certain luck element. But there are some stuff to consider: First, it becomes a more welcoming scheme for beginners. They can fail but if they have parachute they still have chance to keep going. I mean if you are good, people won't catch you just because they got a parachute. You know Sensei's TT Big RR Challies, right? I think they are great way to compete Big RR offline and really welcomes everyone. They have parachute AND ldet module, where your turn never ends even if you fail. Does that make noobs beat pros? Nope. Just take a look at winners in challenges list. Nonentity won every challenge he participated. Parachute or even ldet won't change the outcome. So why make things difficult for beginners in a game that is already losing player base every year? I personally improved my roping mostly by playing big rr with ldet like sensei's scheme back in the day. We had similar challenges with an identical scheme in UC site. Since it was beginner friendly, it attracted more people and those people improved themselves thanks to it.

Second thing about parachute, wind value might be random but they don't bring significant luck. Not to mention, when 3.8 eventually arrives, we'll have option to set a default wind value, which will remove this luck factor for good.

Now, the other luck factor in the current Big RR schemes are bananas. There are certain times (for example during a long fly or a fall) where throwing a nana right at optimal time is not really possible. For that reason, I always use no nana 40 sec scheme in funners and always suggest to play this way in competitive games. And your idea is replace it with a f@#!in zook? A weapon that adds even more luck factor since it's affected by wind. Completely ridiculous.

My opinion is, there's more skill and strategy involving rope knocking (high fall pile, hide etc), than trying to don't lose your turn playing with half speed plus great chances to end up panicking with a self hit zook lol.
This statement is limited to battle rope schemes. Racing schemes are argueable.

I completely agree, parachute is definitely a must for battle rope schemes.

I'd miss lazy falls

Yes, I also sometimes do this deliberately to save time.

[Kradie]

No offense Kradie, and don't take it personally, but in my personal opinion Big ZaR RR is the dumbest ZaR variant or Big RR variant I have ever seen yet.

So Big RR is almost completely luck free scheme, right? There are two minor things preventing it to be 100% luck free. One of them is parachute. Since wind value is always random, it adds a certain luck element. But there are some stuff to consider: First, it becomes a more welcoming scheme for beginners. They can fail but if they have parachute they still have chance to keep going. I mean if you are good, people won't catch you just because they got a parachute. You know Sensei's TT Big RR Challies, right? I think they are great way to compete Big RR offline and really welcomes everyone. They have parachute AND ldet module, where your turn never ends even if you fail. Does that make noobs beat pros? Nope. Just take a look at winners in challenges list. Nonentity won every challenge he participated. Parachute or even ldet won't change the outcome. So why make things difficult for beginners in a game that is already losing player base every year? I personally improved my roping mostly by playing big rr with ldet like sensei's scheme back in the day. We had similar challenges with an identical scheme in UC site. Since it was beginner friendly, it attracted more people and those people improved themselves thanks to it.

Second thing about parachute, wind value might be random but they don't bring significant luck. Not to mention, when 3.8 eventually arrives, we'll have option to set a default wind value, which will remove this luck factor for good.

Now, the other luck factor in the current Big RR schemes are bananas. There are certain times (for example during a long fly or a fall) where throwing a nana right at optimal time is not really possible. For that reason, I always use no nana 40 sec scheme in funners and always suggest to play this way in competitive games. And your idea is replace it with a f@#!in zook? A weapon that adds even more luck factor since it's affected by wind. Completely ridiculous.

My opinion is, there's more skill and strategy involving rope knocking (high fall pile, hide etc), than trying to don't lose your turn playing with half speed plus great chances to end up panicking with a self hit zook lol.
This statement is limited to battle rope schemes. Racing schemes are argueable.

I completely agree, parachute is definitely a must for battle rope schemes.

I'd miss lazy falls

Yes, I also sometimes do this deliberately to save time.

I didn't take this personal at all quite the contrary, I am glad

Anyhow. I have nothing against parachute in rope schemes, what I am saying they behaves as a trainer mode, typical for beginners, and therefor can diminish the punishment. If there is no brutal punishment, then it opens up for reckless and inconsequential roping. If you commit numerous mistakes with parachute, then automatically you become accustomed to it. But with a couple of mistakes with no parachute, will without a doubt hardwire your brain to avoid past mistakes, and Improve your roping. You will become more comfortable, and confident, and therefore introducing swift and efficient roping.

Beginners will get used to this, I had many beginners in my games of zar and big zar rr. Many of them have failed countless of time but yet they come back and improved. Majority of my games are funner, and mistakes are welcomed, but that's how everyone get better.

People are getting more aware of big zar rr, because it is interesting because it has no parachute. The bazooka makes it interesting as well, because it is all about timing when to release it. It gives you 5 second retreat, and it is up to each player to decide if it is worth the risk to fire the bazooka or not, depending on the wind and surrounding areas. The handling of the bazooka is also a skill in itself. When to fire, how to fire, how to avoid and claim those 5 seconds. You got used to it, and you just need keep calm and not panic.

[Triad]

I see your point regarding no chute. Honestly, no chute itself doesn't sound that bad to me since it doesn't have any other purpose in Big RR other than saving your ass. But I disagree with your points regarding play styles. Playing risky isn't really bad. It will force you to rope more faster and after awhile you'll start doing less mistakes. Having no chute may force players to always err on the side of caution and force them to have a  slower run overall. The fake safety of chute (since it doesn't always save you) give players an opportunity to leave their comfort zone. But I guess individual experiences may vary and not everyone might have the same experience as I did, so I give you the benefit of doubt.

I guess my main beef is with zooks. I am just not really comfortable with the idea of zooks. I always preferred Big RR to be pure racing like TTRR, with no weapons. Obviously using zook efficiently requires skills, I just don't think it should have a place in Big RR, or any weapon for that matter.

I didn't take this personal at all quite the contrary, I am glad

I am glad too. Keep the discussions flowing.

[TheKomodo]

About parachute, what Kaleu said is spot on and I completely agree with.

@Triad when you said there are 2 lucky things in Big RR I was like wtf?? But then you mentioned bananas and I thought aaaaaaaaaah, cuz I never use bananas in the scheme, personally I think having bananas in Big RR is a complete waste of time for the reasons you already mentioned, i'm quite happy to say it was me who got the 40s no banana thing going some years ago   I may not have been the 1st to do it, but certainly spread the word and made it catch on!

Besides it's a race, you don't see real life olympic runners stop to toss a banana or change their shoes 90% through the race, so why the f**k did anyone put it in racing schemes to begin with? It's beyond me 

I mean, I guess whoever done it was thinking of the relay race or something, but the annoying thing about Big RR with bananas is not being able to drop the banana while you are not attached to rope, I wouldn't have such an issue with it if you could do that then it would more realistically resemble the relay race to me.

Man I miss playing Big RR, can't wait to get a house sorted again and get my stuff from storage...

[Sensei]

Young Blaster from #ag had best comment regarding this.
Parachute in rope schemes is like helmet when on motorcycle.

So, Kradie, when you feel reckless - do it alone on race track and don't involve others. Especially newcomers.
Who knows how many we lost cause you didn't give chute to those poor ppl.