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Author Topic: barman and his bng skillz  (Read 15311 times)

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Offline Anubis

Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #150 on: June 18, 2013, 10:33 PM »
Padded spacebars to extreme sensitivity seems ridiculous too, I mean, I have the same kb as mablak and my taps are lightyears from his.  Not trying to lessen his skills given his padded spacebar, as he's obviously made the best of it, but you have admit it's a solid advantage over everyone who's never been taught how to do it as perfectly as him.

I can tell you that it's an advantage, sure at first you will need to get used to the high sensitivity, but once you have adapted there is no way back. It just feels better. If it wasn't for modding I would have to buy one of these ultra flat kbs and find the best, which would be expensive. You don't need to get taught though, I just opened the keyboard and started to see what I can put under space to make it feel more responsive. It's lightyears away from the dedication you need to notch perfectly and everyone can do it. Get a screwdriver and have fun modding. ;)

I take no warranty if you damage your keyboard though! I have killed some kbs that way, well "killed" may be exaggerating but they were crippled in such a way that you couldn't type on them anymore or have other faults.

If everyone had the same kb and same everything I would happily drop it, but I know for a fact that I am not the only one modding his space, so instead of complaining I am just adapting.
And NO, I was not the first to mod his spacebar, I got the idea of doing it from Wargod back in NBR. He said why don't you make your space more responsive by putting something squishy such as paper under it. So I tried and liked it, that's the story.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 10:35 PM by Anubis »

Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #151 on: June 19, 2013, 01:05 AM »
Anybody proposing that we limit key sensitivity has to come up with a standard that we can't go under, in grams, since we've never had such a standard. But I don't see any reason to do that, when there are no negative consequences to allowing maximum sensitivity. It's something almost everyone can easily do, and doesn't actually ruin any scheme as visual aids do; as far as I can tell it opens up slightly more roping possibilities, and that's it.

If you look at virtually any sport, people generally have to pay hundreds of dollars more to get top of the line equipment, yet most of us would consider those sports relatively fair. With keyboards, you don't even necessarily have to pay a dime more, and those advantages in equipment are open to everyone. Yes it's an advantage, but it's one that we all have easy access to, no barriers such as money.

Offline franz

Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #152 on: June 19, 2013, 01:38 AM »
You say it's something almost everyone can easily do, but it's not like extreme spacebar sensitivity has been openly promoted in any way either.  It's just been lurking more than anything.  The select few who've modded their keyboard still have a large advantage over everyone, yet it isn't openly taught or given proper guidance like with a detailed 'how-to'.

Run a poll and again I'll bet only a select few admit to modding their space.  If it was so easy and accepted, you'd think everyone would be doing it by now and the playing field would be perfectly level, but I claim it is not unfortunately.

Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #153 on: June 19, 2013, 02:07 AM »
why everyone that thinks that something "not acceptable" or something that supposedly gives "advantage"  should be explained with details for everyone to know? if some ppl were smart enough (and spent their time) to discover these stuff  by themself they dont have the obligation to share it with everyone.
and i dont mean cheating stuff like programs or macros i mean some different methods, like notching or modded kbs
yes its fair that everyone is aware of it but the basics should be enough
what else theres to know about putting a paper under a key?

and maybe not everyone uses this because they are used to their spaces or kbs already, or maybe because they are afraid to break it.

Offline Anubis

Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #154 on: June 19, 2013, 02:17 AM »
It's basically just this: You open up your kb, you put something appropriate under it (trial and error since every kb acts different to it), you put it back together and see if space still works, if it doesn't you re-open it until you have a sweet spot. There is no voodoo magic involved and it's pretty amateurish if you ask me that literally anyone can do. I would start with a kb you can spare in case you f@#! it up. I learned that the hard way. ;)

You can also just remove the key cap and put something on top of the membrane (I would not suggest to try it with mechanical ones) but expect to open up your keyboard if it slips away, I remember once I was too lazy to open up my kb all the time so I just put things under the key cap and when it slipped away I just put another and so on. One day I decided okay time to clean that up and hell there was a mess inside.

It's no rocket science. -.-

Daina! Good post.

Edit: Yep, when I was younger I was sooo scared to break my kbs, and some did break and I was a sad panda. :(
Nowadays I have stocked up on them (still have 5 unused left) when I saw them cheap on ebay, should last a lifetime now.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 02:20 AM by Anubis »

Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #155 on: June 20, 2013, 11:38 AM »
You say it's something almost everyone can easily do, but it's not like extreme spacebar sensitivity has been openly promoted in any way either.  It's just been lurking more than anything.  The select few who've modded their keyboard still have a large advantage over everyone, yet it isn't openly taught or given proper guidance like with a detailed 'how-to'.

Run a poll and again I'll bet only a select few admit to modding their space.  If it was so easy and accepted, you'd think everyone would be doing it by now and the playing field would be perfectly level, but I claim it is not unfortunately.



There you go.  ;)

Offline avirex

Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #156 on: June 20, 2013, 08:28 PM »
sweet!! now we all will be able to own ropers, AND bng!!  *sarcasm*


all the tools are there, yet very few take advantage... barman took full advantage of bng, and thats about it... all though komo acts like the entire wnet is just notching every single shot...


lets see who takes advantage of this KB mod, will there be another mablak tomorrow? i doubt it.

Offline Chicken23

Re: Experimental season result
« Reply #157 on: June 22, 2013, 12:16 PM »
With regards to the bng rules i believe these are biased to notchers. I'll try to write an explanation why i believe unlimited shotgun, the removal of positional darksiding rules and map styles encourage notching, not combat it.

First of all, everyone is learning to notch and competitive bng (based on the limited games i've played this year) have turned more into a 3sec, 4sec, lg 5sec and low strength full power wind shots. This mainly comes from the high style maps made with narrow tall gaps where sometimes you don't have many 3sec options unless you dig. Don't even think about zooking with some mid-full strength winds. Hides are deep in these gullies and 4secs and lg 5s are notched for the majority of the game. (map style here: https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-149237/) Then maps which have tunnels under single dots allow a worm to find new gaps and create angle with sg which only gives them an option to 1 or 2 shots and these hides have been made based on knowing the notch distance (probably from a visual aid) to hit your opponent.

If you remove unlimited shotgun, you have to rely on teleporting into a riskier position to gain angle, or blast a much larger opening to create angle, allowing your opponent a better chance to hit you. This creates a disadvantage which i think is justified because alternatively you are taking an evil hide with limited shot options when using shotgun. Also while you make your hide with shotgun you don't have angle and in old rules this is a cow because you don't have angle to make a shot. In old BnG rules you should be able to attack every turn. If you were darksiding and didn't get the wind you wanted when having no bank or grenade option this was a cow.

As notching is more exposed and gaining popularity, why not tailor the bng rules to be more like nrbng? When notching wasn't well known some 6 years ago or so myself and many clan mates would use darksiding methods in bng's to beat notchers. Me and ropa would play sCa with unanch bng. Me and Dub would find hides where it was difficult to notch us between the notches and use skillful bank shots to still deal damage to opponents. Now this form of defense is limited because you can create almost any angle with the sg option and make evil hides with the prefect notch shot in a couple of turns.
Now I guess you can look at it in two ways and say its peoples fault for not learning to notch while others took the time to learn a aiming technique. That's fair enough, but i believe the current scheme is in favour of that playing style.

Personally i think the scheme shouldn't include sg, should have more griders, consider limiting the number of teleports, reinstate the darksiding rule where if you do not have a shot you cow. This would limit the option of creating evil hides tailored to a notch specific shot. It would put more focus on making hits and pushes because you have to be careful about your hide choices, going somewhere that will open up easily could come back to get you later if you can't escape. If two notchers are playing then there will be more of an intense rally as both are getting decent hits, but the power of pushes will limit the angles and potentially ask for a creative floor bank or different style zook shots as a result of this.

I think we should look at the style of maps, many years ago we wouldn't use flat maps, we'd use the 1 island random and people could darkside on the edges and build a girder. This resulted in having to learn some banks and also curling zooks with strong winds. You can see this skill set from darksiding in hysteria, i think it encourages some nice style of bng with lg winds that you just don't see in bngs anymore. The opponent who is still up top needs to know how to curl zooks against the wind, can attempt to hit the enemies girder to get a transfer and also as the worm they are going for is much lower then the whole power of your shot is totally different to the standard style that has been mastered by notching. With limited teleports the player that decides to darkside in this manor has to pay serious thought as they could get stuck in an awkward place in the map with no shots and be cowing and take a necessary penalty.

Anyway, my main point is that this older style of bng, with older schemes and older rules is a decent tactic against notching that the current style of competitive bng games does not encourage. I don't believe the scheme is dead as others have said, i just think it needs to go back to the roots, and does not allow for a scheme and rule set that is not so advantageous to notching and limits the 'Darth Naders' of us in bng  8) These tactics and style of play i've used in many leagues and clanners in the past and although i can still handle my own in the current rule set, the option to play in this style has been removed.

When we edit schemes we shouldn't just think about what is being added or taken away, we should look more deeply into the tactics that are behind the schemes and the different playing styles that are effected by the decisions we make. The more playing styles and variations that we can bring to a competitive league match the better. People have developed their own styles and tactics personal to them over many years and that is the joy of worms. Just look at inter/elite and how there are so many different ways of implementing your tactics and style in the scheme. Changes can limit the options and style of a player that others many not have considered or learnt, just because something is popular by the majority of players doesn't necessary means it should change, allowing more variation is the key, steering us to all play a scheme with the same tactic isn't.

ps. If you wanna move this to the barman bng thread it may be more appropriate there.


Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #158 on: June 22, 2013, 01:16 PM »
please, add jetpack to the f@#!ing bng instead of stupid teleport because bng is about bazook and nades not about wasting a whole damn turn just to move to a place where you gets your stupid chance to attack as well as opponent can hit you and force to teleport another f@#!ing turn!1
There was games when one player didnt get a single chance to attack because his turn was last and opponent pushed him every time. Ofc if his opponent is so good he is probably deserving a win. But we dont know how good is the player who had last turn because well, he couldnt actually attack. Its like get 1st turn on shoppa, and get petrol, block opponent worm and repeat this 1000 times till win

Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #159 on: June 22, 2013, 01:19 PM »
but seriously what a freak propposed teleport on bng? What happened in his life to force him into conclusion wasting a turn of nothing is actully fun? Maybe somebody have information was he exactly retarded? Because 1 point of IQ should be enough to realize jetpack is much better than his teleport

Offline Aerox

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Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #160 on: June 22, 2013, 01:31 PM »
but seriously what a freak propposed teleport on bng? What happened in his life to force him into conclusion wasting a turn of nothing is actully fun? Maybe somebody have information was he exactly retarded? Because 1 point of IQ should be enough to realize jetpack is much better than his teleport

this is a clear example of the change in bng chicken is talking about.

i mean, you don't even comprehend the purpose of teleport and why its balance towards losing an attacking turn.
MonkeyIsland, my friend, I know your english is terrible and your understanding of society limited. However, in real life, people attack and humiliate others without the use of a single bad word. They even go to war with lengthy politeness. You can't base the whole moderation philosophy of a community based on the use of bad words and your struggle with sarcasm and irony. My attack to Jonno was fully justified and of proper good taste.
Eat a bag full of dicks.

Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #161 on: June 22, 2013, 02:11 PM »
but seriously what a freak propposed teleport on bng? What happened in his life to force him into conclusion wasting a turn of nothing is actully fun? Maybe somebody have information was he exactly retarded? Because 1 point of IQ should be enough to realize jetpack is much better than his teleport

this is a clear example of the change in bng chicken is talking about.

i mean, you don't even comprehend the purpose of teleport and why its balance towards losing an attacking turn.
I know about advantages of teleport more than your brain can allow you to imagine. I know jet-pack will remove pushing and allow to move to places perfect for notching. But its giving a better balance between more skilled player. Because once some noob as you decide to play bng he'll probably will use all the advantages of bng, but if someone really skilled take a hand at your proud ass he'll f@#! you turn by turn and all you will be supposed to do is two thing, first is teleporting from one place to another and second is crying about why bng dont have a damn jetpack

Offline Chicken23

Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #162 on: June 22, 2013, 03:28 PM »
but seriously what a freak propposed teleport on bng? What happened in his life to force him into conclusion wasting a turn of nothing is actully fun? Maybe somebody have information was he exactly retarded? Because 1 point of IQ should be enough to realize jetpack is much better than his teleport

this is a clear example of the change in bng chicken is talking about.

i mean, you don't even comprehend the purpose of teleport and why its balance towards losing an attacking turn.
remove pushing and allow to move to places perfect for notching. But its giving a better balance between more skilled player. Because once some noob as you decide to play bng he'll probably will use all the advantages of bng, but if someone really skilled take a hand at your proud ass he'll f@#! you turn by turn and all you will be supposed to do is two thing, first is teleporting from one place to another and second is crying about why bng dont have a damn jetpack

This does not even make sense. You can never remove being pushed because its an event that occurs out of your turn. If i hit you, you are pushed and your angle may change to where you have fewer or greater shot chances.

At this point you have to make a decision to remain in your hide and shot me back, in an attempt to push me so i have a harder chance of returning fire.
Or.
You decide to teleport into a stronger hide which may be more difficult for me to hit and get ready to attack me again. But there is the risk i'll hit you straight away in your new hide.

My point is the shotgun changes the dynamics of hides and teleports, it allows for hides with tight angles where players can notch a prefect shot out. Instead of being in hides with more angle and a larger range of shots to implement, or a larger range of shots that can hit them.

I don't see any logic to your argument or relation jetpack in bng.

Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #163 on: June 22, 2013, 03:43 PM »
I didnt read your posts because they are too long so Im kinda not sure what are you exactly want to say but the fact is that jetpack removing from bng such thing as pushing - FACT! is it good or not thats another question

Offline Prankster

Re: barman and his bng skillz
« Reply #164 on: June 22, 2013, 03:51 PM »
I didnt read your posts because they are too long so Im kinda not sure what are you exactly want to say but the fact is that jetpack removing from bng such thing as pushing - FACT! is it good or not thats another question

Lol.

Impo, Chicken said that you can't remove pushing itself, with jetpack you only ease the consequences. If you don't take the time to read someone's post before answering, just stay quiet.

Also Chicken,I think people use smaller variation of shots because it's easier to master. A "strong hide" reduces your chances the same way as a hide made with shotgun. Yes, shotgun does change the dynamics, but is that a bad thing? It gives you a little bit more chance to turn the game, because in some cases if there's no hide, you can make your own. Or maybe we should just make BnG bo3 on the same map..
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 04:06 PM by Prankster »