Which schemes requires most skills to handle?

[Desetroyah]

We are talking about skill value, no? In a few days I can make a BnG bot which will pwn you with your many years of practice, what's the value of this practice then? This is kinda pointless.
[/quote]

so basically I should stop playing the piano since there are machines and programs that can play anything?

You're seriously misunderstanding what "fun" is. If I'm having fun testing my eye-to-hand coordination with roping there's nothing you can compare with the fun you'll be having testing your ability to choose and use weapons in imaginative ways in Intermediate.

My point: this discussion is kinda pointless since its trying to compare two totally different things. The piano example shows that regardless of whether roping is "codeable" so that it exploits all Worms physics that does not take anything from its difficulty and skill thats needed.

[nappy]

so basically I should stop playing the piano since there are machines and programs that can play anything?

Robots can't even come close to human piano playing skills yet.

You're seriously misunderstanding what "fun" is. If I'm having fun testing my eye-to-hand coordination with roping there's nothing you can compare with the fun you'll be having testing your ability to choose and use weapons in imaginative ways in Intermediate.

Lol, honestly, this thread is not about fun. Undoubtedly fun is the most important thing in the game, but in this discussion it stays aside.
Btw, I love roping, especially rr.

[Cueshark]

Large margins?  That's the subject of yet another debate if you wanna go there.  I got time if you have.  <3 komo

No thanks, that's too arrogant for me.

Komo - "And tbh if you compare Mablaks Roping to my BnG, you will find us equal because we are both the leading players by a large margin"

And you call me arrogant!

Komo, I'm not arrogant.  I'm just responding to your arrogance but trying my best to keep it civil.

You're the best BnG player I believe.  But not by a large margin, have some respect and don't be f@#!ing arrogant.  And if Mablak is indeed the best rope racer then it is not by a large margin.  IMO.

Again, I'll say it.  If you want to debate this point then give me a constructive argument and we'll talk it through.

[TheKomodo]

I constantly beat the top players in BnG constantly, Mablak constantly beats the top players in TTRR constantly.

I won't respond again, simply because you are seeing this as too personal instead of the fact that it is, it is what it is, it doesn't mean I don't respect anyone else, not my problem you gotta see it that way.

[avirex]

avi, this is the last time I am gonna give you some of my time to make an indepth post at you:

Yesterday you accuse me of having no life because I spend alot of time on these forums? So what, is that a crime? Is it such a crime to want to spend alot of my time with ALOT of people I enjoy spending my time with? Isn't that what you do in real life? Spend time with people you enjoy spending time with doing things you enjoy doing things with having discussions about things you enjoy having discussions about?

I like to debate alot, I debate alot and it helps me seperate myself from those who may betray me in the future, the people I have as friends are now people I know I can trust depend and rely on, people I know I can have differences with, people I know I can fight with, and shake hands after, REAL people, REAL people I know I can go to hell and back with and have that feeling of HAVING A f@#!ING LIFE.

Thanks to this game, and forum, over the last few years I have found inspiration for music, comedy, different cultures, and many other things, I am now getting the chance to spend a year with and share knowledge and life experiences with because of this game, this forum, I also got to take part in a successful small movie as part of a community of amazing people and players from around the world

I love my life, I feel lucky to have my life, I am grateful for having a loving family and such strong friends and work colleagues who support each other through the hardest times, as well as celebrating the best of times.

Troll me and my community all you want, I really don't care cuz I am so f@#!ing happy and grateful.

cool komo

[Cueshark]

I constantly beat the top players in BnG constantly, Mablak constantly beats the top players in TTRR constantly.

I won't respond again, simply because you are seeing this as too personal instead of the fact that it is, it is what it is, it doesn't mean I don't respect anyone else, not my problem you gotta see it that way.

;O

[Statik]

Super Sheep Race!

P.S. ne1?

[Mablak]

so basically I should stop playing the piano since there are machines and programs that can play anything?

Robots can't even come close to human piano playing skills yet.

You're seriously misunderstanding what "fun" is. If I'm having fun testing my eye-to-hand coordination with roping there's nothing you can compare with the fun you'll be having testing your ability to choose and use weapons in imaginative ways in Intermediate.

Lol, honestly, this thread is not about fun. Undoubtedly fun is the most important thing in the game, but in this discussion it stays aside.
Btw, I love roping, especially rr.

Even if it proved impossible to make a perfect strategy scheme AI, the best one you could possibly make would still lose frequently to top players. It wouldn't be able to beat them 100% of the time as a BnG or TTRR bot almost certainly would. This is because with motor skill related stuff, certain things are just insurmountable for humans, whereas with strategy, we can use heuristics to subconsciously bypass all the little things we should really be thinking about. A strategy AI's potential would be fairly limitless, but human potential is similar, if the game is simple enough. Judging a scheme's skill based on bot complexity is pointless if you don't also take into account how those bots stack up to humans ;0.

But nonetheless, I don't see how bots are relevant, it's futile to compare yourself to perfection. It really has nothing to do with how skillful a scheme is for humans.

[TheKomodo]

Well said Mablak

[Anubis]

While we are at it:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/235878/robot_absorbs_civilization_manual_goes_on_to_win_games.html

Quite interesting if you consider that the AI was not programmed to know about civilization, it was reading the manual and then started to play and learn.
I am not so sure if the "best" possible made bot could not surpass our strategy comprehension, like us it would need to learn the game but in near future I am sure we will see AI/Robots do a lot more impressive stuff, not that this little achievement isn't impressive, it's fantastic actually that a AI can read and reflect the things it read.

[TheKomodo]

But but robots will still be noobs, cuz anything less than perfect for a robot is considered a complete failure.

What makes us so good is that fact it's so hard for us, that is what skill is.

[Breeze]

If roper is a luck scheme how have people gone 50-0 in the past in leagues.

How did people go +100 in cases r lad. Probably the most competitive league the worms series has had (not the best league, most competitive).

It must have been luck. No skill involved in that at all.

I see the same people that complain about cr8s in roper hiding in the middle portion of the map when they are losing. Most lack the strategy and intricacies that roper requires. Most people don't have the speed and ability to get hard cr8s anymore. Even fewer people attempt to throw a 2s or 3s nade when they cant reach a worm. Even fewer have ever used max bounce in a roper. I could go on and on about the myth that roper is a luck scheme.

The skill level of ropers has decreased (me included). Not the skill required for roper.

Can't resist, you can't possibly argue over roper.
The reason in past leagues people went such good records with not only roper but any scheme was DON, DON and DON. 

I disagree with Skill level, I believe relatively it is higher now a days, back then few and far between could rope better than most of the community.

Roper is sooooooo luck based it's not funny, let go of the past.

I actually agree with everything Ropa has said.

[Aerox]

I actually agree with everything Ropa has said.

that would of looked so much better under your old nickname

[Dub-c]

If roper is a luck scheme how have people gone 50-0 in the past in leagues.

How did people go +100 in cases r lad. Probably the most competitive league the worms series has had (not the best league, most competitive).

It must have been luck. No skill involved in that at all.

I see the same people that complain about cr8s in roper hiding in the middle portion of the map when they are losing. Most lack the strategy and intricacies that roper requires. Most people don't have the speed and ability to get hard cr8s anymore. Even fewer people attempt to throw a 2s or 3s nade when they cant reach a worm. Even fewer have ever used max bounce in a roper. I could go on and on about the myth that roper is a luck scheme.

The skill level of ropers has decreased (me included). Not the skill required for roper.

Can't resist, you can't possibly argue over roper.
The reason in past leagues people went such good records with not only roper but any scheme was DON, DON and DON. 

I disagree with Skill level, I believe relatively it is higher now a days, back then few and far between could rope better than most of the community.

Roper is sooooooo luck based it's not funny, let go of the past.

I actually agree with everything Ropa has said.

Actually people went 100-0 without DON.  

Roper is starting to become one of the least played tus schemes. I would say people were better at it when it was at its highest popularity and it was most peoples main schemes then now when very few specialize in it.

Back then? When exactly are you speaking of?

The only thing that can even remotely called luck about roper is the cr8s.

In almost all games the amount of cr8s that are impossible even out for both players. Its so stupid when someone goes "omfg cr8" at the start of games. f@#!ing relax.

Unless you played a flawless game you have no right to bitch about cr8s. There are very few perfect games.

Play on maps where there is hard cr8s but not impossible ones.

Rope better and faster. The better and faster roper will get harder cr8s and attack more.

Look at the top 20 overall tus win ratios for roper. Then look at the top 20 overall win ratios for other schemes. Roper is comparable if not higher win ratio then the other schemes.

How could this be? Is everyone in the top 20 of roper luckier then everyone else. If roper is so lucky that it makes you laugh hysterically shouldn't the top 20 win ratio's be lower?

Where is your proof that roper is a luck scheme?

[franz]

mistakes decide roper games, not crates.
yet way too many people still bash roper as the 'luck' scheme.
this is an old, yet seemingly never-ending discussion:

https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-57630/
https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/off-topic/darkone-or-someone-else-maybe/30/
https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-general/w2rope-scheme-***please-read***/150/

i'm not saying random crates don't affect every game. they do.
but everyone here is exaggerating way too much making roper seem like the lottery.

it's not even close to that much luck. it's only slightly more than the other schemes.
as dubc knows, skill and mistakes decide a roper win or loss like 97+% of the time.