Wormnet moderation

[TheKomodo]

Because you assume the worst of people with the Intel you see.

No, YOU think I assume the worst of people, though I don't.

I judge you based on what I've seen first hand, and yes online in games you're much more pleasant to be around, me too probably because we both talk less and play more lol.

Admittedly, I think you're a lot nicer these days than some years ago, though I can say the same for myself lol.

Let me tell you what I think of YOU based on what I have observed only here on the forums. You have a massive ego that fueled by self-righteousness. You judge and berate people if they differ with you. You come across as this white knight on a horse waving the sword of truth. You overwhelm people with sermons and obvious speeches. Nobody likes that.

Yeah that's fine, there are quite a number of people who think of me that way, generally speaking it comes with the territory of being actively confrontational.

Judge, yes, though I don't agree with "berate" as I don't condemn people who differ from me. That's something that you do, case in point what you said here with the following about "baby's diaper":

Perhaps what I said is just ''opinion''. Perhaps someone will say otherwise. But remember, this is what I have observed here on these forums.

And I can see you can't let go this whole parachute discussion. Parachute is a clutch, it is a baby's diaper. You're a grown man, you can walk without it and not have the fear to fall on your ass.

Using the parachute emulates a more realistic environment than playing without one just like real life sports that use safety equipment to escalate their strength and agility.

You  keep saying it's a clutch while failing to realize it's significance, importance and usefulness.

Your mistake is thinking people NEED it to just play, they don't need it, but it makes them more powerful, it's a tool, not a clutch lol.

[h3oCharles]

+1 do what MI said on he first page. we're supposed to be here to chill and play a game and have some sportsmanship, not talk about politics. there are better places for that

[Kradie]

@Komodo

I am nicer today? Wow.. Thanks? You clearly never knew me 

If I was worse before, then I really got lucky recruiting people to ZaR.

We can just agree to disagree about freedom, parachute and animals.. There is no point at this time to go any further. Unless if someone else has something to say.

+1 do what MI said on he first page. we're supposed to be here to chill and play a game and have some sportsmanship, not talk about politics. there are better places for that

If two or more dudes are playing a game on their own, they have the rights to talk about whatever. If there are more people present, they should leave if they don't like the topic.

[TheKomodo]

If two or more dudes are playing a game on their own, they have the rights to talk about whatever. If there are more people present, they should leave if they don't like the topic.

Well that depends on where it is. Like, you wouldn't be going into someone elses house saying stuff they don't want to hear and expect them to leave their own house lol. As MI said, as I said, and as others have said... Environment is very important, every environment has their own laws/rules/guidelines, it would be wise to follow them.

If you want to speak about anything in the privacy of a friend, that's between you 2 alone. The moment you step into the public you're part of the public, and the public will hold you responsible if you don't co-exist peacefully. It's not like you even have a choice when you are in someone else's domain, your 2 choices are to either follow their rules or they will forcibly remove you one way or another.

If someone comes into your house, and they aren't comfortable, yes, they should leave. Though if you go into someone elses house and start making them feel uncomfortable, you should leave.

That's why freedom of choice, freedom of speech are illusions... While yes you can literally say and do anything you want, we all know there are certain times and places we wouldn't say or do specific things out of survival and the willingness to co-exist peacefully.

[raffie]

I personally hope we will never start banning people from this already small community, from this silly little game we all love. And if there are those who cannot cope with certain things typed in WormNet, again, why not have an option to mute users.

if only we could get rid of them off the face of the Earth entirely then we'd be cooking with gas.

That's not an opinion it's a universal fact lol.

These are both kind of red flags IMO

[TheKomodo]

I personally hope we will never start banning people from this already small community, from this silly little game we all love. And if there are those who cannot cope with certain things typed in WormNet, again, why not have an option to mute users.

I actually agree, I hope we don't have to resort to banning people either.

Though, if people become too hostile towards others, they will eventually draw attention from some kind of authority.

An option to mute users would be better than nothing, but the ability to ban people who are too extreme would be better.

When I said off the face of the Earth I'm saying "I believe the world would be a better place without toxic people", it's not like I'd send them all into space without a space suit or anything lol.

[Kradie]

Well that depends on where it is. Like, you wouldn't be going into someone elses house saying stuff they don't want to hear and expect them to leave their own house lol. As MI said, as I said, and as others have said... Environment is very important, every environment has their own laws/rules/guidelines, it would be wise to follow them.

If you are the host it becomes your house and that makes it your domain. I am a kind and welcoming host (to most). People know what they will get when they join with me and that's normally a good time. How do I maintain a healthy environment in my host? To be decent and kind. Treat others just as you want to be treated. So if people just apply some common sense then laws and rules won't be necessary. There won't be any reason to choke freedom of speech. I always cast toxic people away and I Ignore them too. Anyone can do this. Why wouldn't anyone do this?

If you want to speak about anything in the privacy of a friend, that's between you 2 alone. The moment you step into the public you're part of the public, and the public will hold you responsible if you don't co-exist peacefully. It's not like you even have a choice when you are in someone else's domain, your 2 choices are to either follow their rules or they will forcibly remove you one way or another.

If WormNET is the street outside your home, then your home is the host room. If you step outside you would be wise to watch your mouth. No one in their right mind in real life would seek out a random person and talk shit to them. Anyone can wander through a public street and they can hear anything they like or don't like. But you shouldn't care for that, it is just noise. You focus on task at hand, find a game with like minded people and have a good time.

Imagine Komodo, you are a civilian walking down the street. You can hear two white dudes sitting outside at cafe chilling rambling about whatever. Out of nowhere you can hear one of them say the ''N'' word clearly. What would you choose to do as a civilian? Call the police? Intervene in their discussion?
And let's say you were an officer of the law Komodo, what would you do in that situation? Would you arrest them for saying a word you don't like? Or imagine something else said you didn't like. What would you do?

You remind me of Kira from Death Note Komodo. DELETE DELETE DEEEEEEEEEEEEELEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETE!

[TheWalrus]

I didn't read everything here, but wormnet and TUS are not an absolute democracy.  Freedom of speech is not a guaranteed right.  If you are an asshole promoting non-inclusive hate speech, you should f@#! right off.  Just my opinion though. 

[Kradie]

I didn't read everything here, but wormnet and TUS are not an absolute democracy.  Freedom of speech is not a guaranteed right.  If you are an asshole promoting non-inclusive hate speech, you should f@#! right off.  Just my opinion though.

I AM HERE TO CLARIFY TO YOU DEAR READER

"If you support free speech, you need to understand that it will also involve hate speech".

I think it was necessary correction to my second post here in this topic.

Who wants to be around such people anyway? He would just make a bad reputation of themselves. Oddly enough.. There are people who appear to be normal who loves to be in an toxic asshole's presence because they are ''entertaining'' to them. Imo, it only validates them and give them more reason to be an asshole.

[FoxHound]

I read the whole discussion this time. Lately I'm not reading them. I liked a lot what Komito wrote about the limits of the world and the living beings. Beautiful stuff. Sad that Kradie and some other people's mind are not open to understand this.

In my opinion Zalo is the most sensitive wormer I've ever "seen" and probably one of the most sensitive people I've ever contacted with.

I really feel very sad to see some opinions here on TUS, from people I always imagined as one of the most cool people of WormNET, until read their opinions here. I won't cite names.

I don't wanna talk about politics here, as MI many times expressed his experience in the moderation of this website for so many years. This is not the best place to talk about this stuff. Well, but the war that recently Iran is involved might affect TUS. This is not a choice of us.

Animals are not as smart as a human being that not only is smart but can use tools, communicate better than many animals and live in society. But, they are very similar to us and have some unique differences. There are Chimpanzees that were taught sign language and they can communicate with human beings and even create words using an official language. You call these apes irrational? Are human beings that special? We are mammals, apes with smartphones and some people use the technology we have from centuries and centuries of deep science to propagate fake news and anti-science stuff. I think chimps are smarter than these people.

And I keep what I wrote about Kradie. What he wrote was absurd and stupid. And what he fixed about what he wrote is still stupid. A democracy can only exist with Freedom of Speech. Hate Speech is not Freedom of Speech. Hate Speech destroys Freedom of Speech as people group together to think that hating a minority (like Jews for example) is something ok. Until there was something called holocaust. So a democracy can only exist without hate Speech. Freedom of Speech is only freedom when you can be a minority without people hating you for being born this way. Freedom of Speech exists but it has limits to exist. And when I say it exists I say that it exists because you have more freedom than a dictatorship or an authoritarian government, but even the best democracy with freedom of speech has rules and many limitations, including the influence of other countries, historical context, capitalism, inequality and all stuff we haven't chosen.

All animals only live because there are rules regarding the ecosystem they live. The Alpha chimp is a leader, a president that organizes a community of chimps with rules. The difference is that we have bigger populations specially after Neolithic, so our rules are more numerous and complex than the chimps and the other living beings.

Kradie didn't say sorry to me when he used WA community to encourage 8th January Brazil's coup attempt using fake news and videos on his own server with hundreds of WA players there. I thought he got better than the past, I agree with Komo, but now reading the stuff he is writing here I think he is indeed a disgusting living being.

[preduestniq]

plz make the possibility of registrating nicknames with passwords and a login system bridge to wormnet.. linked and possibly in connection with the TUS site, or a discord server. with the toxic trolls gone, that would also improve the environment alltogether

Would be highly useful to get rid of impersonators. They're (one of) the biggest problem(s) of WormNET imo.
For the known TUS players, it seems to me, impersonators ain't a problem at all cuz the known TUS players know well each other and it's obviously for them when some troll tries to impersonate any of them. But for new players and/or for those who have no (known) TUS account the impersonators are the big problem.

Btw afaik in Hedgewars (a WA clone (ain't played it much and ain't a big fan of it however)) there already are the possibility of registering nicknames linked to the game's website, it's a pity there still ain't the same thing in WA.

Agreed... That, and proper moderation of WormNET to create a safer environment for young people who would otherwise be pushed away by negativity and toxicity.

I think everyone here will agree that a friendly environment without toxic people would be the best for all, not only for young people. But it seems to me (at least for now) it's too difficult to make a proper moderation in WormNET to get rid of toxicity without possible limiting or even complete destroying the freedom of speech in future. Probably would be better getting back to this topic later when the possibility of registering nicknames linked to TUS is officially applied to WA.

I've lost count of the amount of people who told me they stopped playing due to racism, homophobia and bigotry on WormNET.

People tend to leave your community when they don't like its atmosphere. It is not about growing a pair and being tough. It's not about ignoring what you don't like. TRUST ME! I've ran this show for 15+ years. People have left the community in front of my eyes. Many of those who left were not even the target of some beef. They just didn't like the atmosphere of people pulling each other's hair.

- DarkOne was one of them. He was a GEM! He said he got frustrated with certain behaviors and one day he was fed up and done.
- Peja left for a long long time. His quitting reasons had NOTHING to do with W:A itself but over some toxic discussions and me failing to realize absolute freedom of speech eventually contradicts itself. (yes TUS had a high degree of freedom of speech in the past)
- Gabriel left the game on and off. Luckily he's still with us, but look:
and these examples are known wormers. There are newcomers who won't bother and boy we have lots of cringe worthy beefs. WormNET moderation is a MUST and its sole purpose should be to keep a friendly atmosphere. We don't want to be an ancient mysterious game like Jumanji. We want new blood and a safe/cozy WormNET is the way to go.

100% truth! You can add me to that list as well.

Add me too.
Btw just in case if anyone is interested who I am. None of you don't know me and it's not a surprise since I never was active on TUS at all, just created an account a long time ago only to test the TUS' online scheme editor.
I've played WA online at least hundreds of hours starting from the summer update in 2020. Didn't become a pro player though, especially in rope schemes.

Never played WA online before 2020, but played pretty much offline irl with my friends and without them in 2011-2012, oh I miss those times so much... Also never really liked WA before 2020, my first and favorite game was (and still is) Worms Reloaded (the PC version of Worms 2 Armageddon), I have so many inestimable memories about the times when I played it in 2010-2012. WA and WWP were very important for me as well despite the fact that my skills in them two were extremely bad, I couldn't even complete at least a half of the single player and training missions unlike the WR, which's missions I finished much easier many times.

Well, the main thing I wanted to say: when I started to play WA online first time in my life in 2020 I was shocked by WormNET's toxicity... Of course I played noobish as hell these days/weeks/months, for what I've been sooooo many times hated, insulted, kicked from lobbies, intentionally attacked during a game match by all players from lobby forcing me to quit and in general treaten like shit.

In 2021 my WA skills got better, in 2022 much more better, but despite of that I still kept meeting tons of assholes who insulted me, kicked me from lobbies for no objective reason and intentionally attacked me together during a game match. The most common reason of such dumb and toxic behavior simply was just their hate to my country. They kept treating me like shit even when I was completely silent during the matches and, most importantly, my WA skills already weren't that noobish as they were in 2020.

I also never felt really negative to quitters. Imo they're not that bad at all comparing to the ones I said above. Btw I always tried to not quit games without really urgent reasons.

Generally, I've often had extremely bad experience of interacting with other WA players. Not always though, sometimes I met very pleasant and cool players, I also met many players, who were neutral to me.
Almost all the time I've played WA online, I played with random players and from time to time changed my nickname, team and country flag. In most cases I did it after a short (or not) break from playing WA to get rid of another asshole who started annoying and stalking me after a match, remembered also to insult me, my WA skills, my parents and my country. And oh, I never had many friends in WA with whom I could regularly play something else besides Intermediate and Kaos Normal. Only had 2 friends in WA, but even with them I didn't play much, I ain't talked to them for almost 3 years, most likely they don't play WA or Worms anymore at all.

Spoiler! View

Omg, playing WA without friends sucks. Moreover, everything sucks without friends. I have no friends at all for now, not irl friends, nor internet ones. I'm alone as fuсk. I'm in deep depression, thought a lot of suiсidе during the last year. Not sure if I still will be alive when the 3.9 or 4.0 update is released... Not joking or trolling, I'm serious, believe or not. I don't see any meaning in my worthless life full of pain and endless sorrow. Most likely none here doesn't give a damn anyway. No wonder cuz I'm nobody. Though maybe some people here even will be glad knowing I suffer all my life, I don't care... Though I'm even glad a bit if I actually make someone here glad, throwing these useless meaningless shitty walls of text which look like some kind of dumb and weird trolling, heheh... We are alone in the end, all alone. You are alone in the end, so alone. We're all made of broken dreams. Lost is hope and still we bleed. We're all a part of a broken scene. Fate is cruel and so we bleed. The last six ones are from a song of one of my favorite bands, which I firstly listened in 2013 (about a month before I started suffering from weird permanent bloody pain in my neck and back). Omg wtf am I actually doing, I can't believe I'm actually writing all this garbage here. I'm not even drunk. My despair's slowly getting stronger. Probably I'm already out of what left of my motherfuсking mind. Я желаю всем вам всего самого наилучшего. Я больше не обижаюсь ни на кого, кто когда-либо оскорблял меня и причинял мне какое-либо другое зло в WA. WA - самая лучшая из серии Worms, я не сразу это понял. Люди, будьте добрее и внимательнее друг к другу пожалуйста. Мир вокруг станет только лучше от этого. TheKomodo and Kradie, you're both are awesome wormers, why do you even argue to each other in this topic? I'm pretty sure you two can do a lot of much more cool and useful things for WA. How about to make a WA stream together? CWA Podcast for example. The rhetorical question: Why WA players and other Worms players so often toxicly argue to each other? For example about which Worms games are good and which are bad, about which Worms Discord servers are good and which are bad, about from what countries the wormers are good and from what countries the wormers are bad, about bloody politics... Come on, fellas. There are not that many wormers left (WA ones in particular) so all the active wormers of all Worms games must stay together and be as united as possible and perhaps then we'll be able to make Worms the great game again. I believe it's possible to have only constructive conversations at least here on TUS. My dream is if there was a Worms community (Discord server and/or whatever) which unites wormers of all games, kinds, countries etc. I want to believe this might be not just a dream someday.

All these years I was too lazy to finally start using TUS for searching players here cuz everything on TUS seemed extremely difficult to me, plus I ain't really good in English (I might seem so, but actually I ain't, believe or not).
I really love WA and all other Worms games as well, but my negative WA online experience made me depressed about WA community.

For now I ain't played WA about half a year (maybe more, didn't count properly). Who knows, maybe now I will start play WA again. Or some later, after the 3.9 or 4.0 update is released. If I will, this time I plan to actively use my TUS account, I just don't know from what to start. All these  groups, leagues, cups, tournaments, challenges etc. seem sooooo difficult to me (but extremely cool and interesting though). And also one more thing... My PC from which I played WA is completely broken, now I only have a very weak and laggy laptop with small display, so if I play WA on it, I'll look like a complete noob. Forgot to say: looking at TUS I really have a hope that WA and Worms in general might have a chance and a future. I really wish the WA's WormNET will have the same atmosphere as on TUS someday or maybe even better. I also hope W2, WA and WWP will become the one game someday with the WWPR's mission editor and Project X included as well.

Didn't think I would ever write something on TUS forums.

[MonkeyIsland]

@preduestniq

Welcome to TUS and congratulations on your first wall-post

@kradie,

you are a civilian walking down the street. You can hear two white dudes sitting outside at cafe chilling rambling about whatever. Out of nowhere you can hear one of them say the ''N'' word clearly. What would you choose to do as a civilian? Call the police? Intervene in their discussion?
And let's say you were an officer of the law Komodo, what would you do in that situation? Would you arrest them for saying a word you don't like? Or imagine something else said you didn't like. What would you do?

The street example is not a good analogy for WormNET. People passing on a street don't have anything in common. You could say WormNET is like a club or a bar. People who enter the club/bar may not know each other but they are looking to experience something similar. Now everytime you go to the bar you see people vomiting or having a bar fight, even though none of them are targeted at you, it definitely impacts your experience of that bar/club.

[Triad]

Spoiler! View

Omg, playing WA without friends sucks. Moreover, everything sucks without friends. I have no friends at all for now, not irl friends, nor internet ones. I'm alone as fuсk. I'm in deep depression, thought a lot of suiсidе during the last year. Not sure if I still will be alive when the 3.9 or 4.0 update is released... Not joking or trolling, I'm serious, believe or not. I don't see any meaning in my worthless life full of pain and endless sorrow. Most likely none here doesn't give a damn anyway. No wonder cuz I'm nobody. Though maybe some people here even will be glad knowing I suffer all my life, I don't care... Though I'm even glad a bit if I actually make someone here glad, throwing these useless meaningless shitty walls of text which look like some kind of dumb and weird trolling, heheh... We are alone in the end, all alone. You are alone in the end, so alone. We're all made of broken dreams. Lost is hope and still we bleed. We're all a part of a broken scene. Fate is cruel and so we bleed. The last six ones are from a song of one of my favorite bands, which I firstly listened in 2013 (about a month before I started suffering from weird permanent bloody pain in my neck and back). Omg wtf am I actually doing, I can't believe I'm actually writing all this garbage here. I'm not even drunk. My despair's slowly getting stronger. Probably I'm already out of what left of my motherfuсking mind. Я желаю всем вам всего самого наилучшего. Я больше не обижаюсь ни на кого, кто когда-либо оскорблял меня и причинял мне какое-либо другое зло в WA. WA - самая лучшая из серии Worms, я не сразу это понял. Люди, будьте добрее и внимательнее друг к другу пожалуйста. Мир вокруг станет только лучше от этого. TheKomodo and Kradie, you're both are awesome wormers, why do you even argue to each other in this topic? I'm pretty sure you two can do a lot of much more cool and useful things for WA. How about to make a WA stream together? CWA Podcast for example. The rhetorical question: Why WA players and other Worms players so often toxicly argue to each other? For example about which Worms games are good and which are bad, about which Worms Discord servers are good and which are bad, about from what countries the wormers are good and from what countries the wormers are bad, about bloody politics... Come on, fellas. There are not that many wormers left (WA ones in particular) so all the active wormers of all Worms games must stay together and be as united as possible and perhaps then we'll be able to make Worms the great game again. I believe it's possible to have only constructive conversations at least here on TUS. My dream is if there was a Worms community (Discord server and/or whatever) which unites wormers of all games, kinds, countries etc. I want to believe this might be not just a dream someday.

In life, very few things remain constant. there's always chance of things changing for the better in the future, and the only way to witness that is to persevere till the day it becomes a reality. I don't have any knowledge about your personal situation, and how rough it might be to be in your position, but still, I truly hope that you stick around long enough to see that day.

Death is an inevitable part of life that will eventually come for us all, but we likely only have one chance at existence, so there's no need to rush; the door (to way out of this life) will always be open, and I found that extremely comforting during tough times in my life, because even if things got much worse, I knew that the door would always remain open. I was fortunate enough to actually see things change for the better, and there is no reason to believe that you won't see it.

So let's keep moving forward to see what else we can experience in this life until death takes us.

P.S. Also, you listening to Norther, huh? I faintly recall coming across one of their song on Spotify (I think it was Frozen Angel, not sure). I liked the one you shared, the ominous guitar riff midway through the song is nice. Finland have plenty great bands. Feel free to share metal songs you like in this thread: https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/off-topic/all-metal-fans-post-here-18858/

[Kradie]

@kradie,
The street example is not a good analogy for WormNET. People passing on a street don't have anything in common. You could say WormNET is like a club or a bar. People who enter the club/bar may not know each other but they are looking to experience something similar. Now everytime you go to the bar you see people vomiting or having a bar fight, even though none of them are targeted at you, it definitely impacts your experience of that bar/club.

What you said here makes a lot of sense to me. So if I understand you right that ''Experience'' is more Important than Freedom of Speech? It's like in kindergarten, you work there to provide the kids security and a good experience. Only an Irrational crazy person would wish to oppose this.

Keep in mind, most of what I have said here has not been associated with law and order, but with common sense and rational thinking. I am no Idiot I understand in a working society you need law and order. In some places you shouldn't talk about this and that, everyone know this.

I guess my problem is I have too much faith in people to believe that they can make the right moral decision on their own when they are out and associating with others. Who would want to hang with bad people? Who would want to listen to people talk shit to each other? I don't. That's why I avoid such people because I have the choice too. Why would you want to be with a few people who attacks you? If that happens you know what kind of people they are. Their behavior is only damaging themselves and their reputation. Besides you don't even know them, their words should mean nothing to you.

I have FoxHound muted because he's not really a good human, most of his posts and opinions are nothing of worth. But I decided to unmute his last post before my own and read it. I only skimmed his text and then I saw the part about me, and I skimmed most of it too. What he said there about me is not true. It is taken out of context and is one sided, complete disinformation. I will not go into that subject because it is Irrelevant to this topic. But when I see people spread lies to feel validated then I must speak out.

Some people read his first post here in this topic and they were shocked. This is a guy who wants to strangle freedom. Who wants to hang with such a person?No wonder I have the power to Ignore.

To Ignore is a skill and it is very Important people are taught this by early age. Although some things are worth fighting for.

Maybe the WormNET chat window should be disabled by default on entering a channel. At least it would give the user to hide the chat.

[Zalo the moler]

@kradie,
The street example is not a good analogy for WormNET. People passing on a street don't have anything in common. You could say WormNET is like a club or a bar. People who enter the club/bar may not know each other but they are looking to experience something similar. Now everytime you go to the bar you see people vomiting or having a bar fight, even though none of them are targeted at you, it definitely impacts your experience of that bar/club.

MonkeyIsland for the president! Well said!