zar roper is not more difficult than classic roper

[TheKomodo]

I won't reply to a thread that specific person made up in their own private forum so i'll voice my opinion here, I want people to see the truth, not a subjective agenda:

zar / roper are of equal difficulty. I could use other words to explain the differences but not difficult.

Once you reach a certain level of skill they are both straight forward and simple schemes to understand and play.

1st off, the physics are exactly the same in both.

zar has more risk, because you will lose your turn in most cases where you fall, but it is also a lot simpler to learn and master. There are less weapons so you only have to learn and master 1 weapon, there is no parachute so you don't have to worry about a lot of potential knocks(where parachute would save you).

They are both as "difficult" as each other because the physics are exactly the same, the only way zar would be more difficult is if there was less momentum in the gravity/air resistance.

Another thing which makes zar simpler is the fact the terrain is destructable, which over time makes attacking and collecting crates a lot less time consuming which effectively gives you more confidence to successfully finish your turn.

You will learn how to rope faster by playing normal roper simply because of the time saved by having that safety net, in zar, the more you fall, the less time you are in the air, the more time you must wait between turns, so you get less practise.

This makes ZaR more time consuming to learn how to rope, but not harder, it takes more patience to rope in zar.

The major downside to roper, is when played on extremely complex maps, it's literally humanly impossible to reach crates and attack. On both schemes the further away a crate is the more challenging it is to collect and attack, however in zar roper over time the land opens up making it less challenging to traverse the entire map.

Both schemes have their ups and downs.

Trying to claim zar is harder is purely subjective and biased.

[PoloPoloPOlo]

 I pretty agree on the things you point out on this post.

Still, i do play a lot more ZaR and I played Roper once, not so long ago. I did waaay better in Roper than in ZaR but I think this is only due to the 3 seconds more that regular roper allows.
Otherwise I pretty agree that both conditions of these games make them quite equal on difficulty.

Actually, i think i playd like, maybe 10-20 ropers in my whole worm life. (As if I were a worm )
And now, i think maybe a few hundreds ZaR since a year. So I can't compare. I actually like ZaR as much for the community as for the scheme, hard to say... I'm more used to ZaR so I prefer it. And I'm used to only zook so I prefer it. Wouldn't be bothered with 'nades or mines now. I like This simplicity of ZaR, wich is basically in the name of it
As much as in the "gameplay" of it

But I wouldn't defend what is better, easier, or whatever, i just don't give a shit..
I just prefer it

Why bothering about such things anyway ?

[TheKomodo]

Why bothering about such things anyway ?

To begin with, playing a roper with no parachute, 12 seconds and destructable terrain existed long before a certain person decided to name it zar, in fact I remember personally playing with no parachute and destructable terrain all the way back in 1999, the same year the game came out. Of course if I recall correctly the introduction of customized turn time seconds didn't exist until later.

So far, there is no problem.

The problem is that a certain individual has a habit of spreading misinformation on the differences between classic Roper and zar. They also act like zar is superior, which is fine if it was purely an opinion but they keep making topics writing things as if they are facts, and it's just wrong.

Here is a list of some direct quotes he said in thread debating parachute in rope based schemes, showing just how ignorant and disrespectful he can truly be:

It totally feels like trainer mode is enabled holding your hand''.

It is kind of sad, that people are so reliant on this trainer mode it is embarrassing. To be honest, parachute should only be in warmers.

When I go back to say roper, I feel ashamed over myself, and embarrassed by others, because of the freaking parachute keeps activating on every turn.

You talk about parachute as safety net, but in reality it is a crutch, a reminder that you can fail.

Safety net, like diapers, you fall safe on your ass.

Parachute makes you cast responsibilities aside and rope risk free, while without parachute you can do the same but with skills and confidence.

Majority on TuS, and legacy players are more comfortable & safe using parachute. While I, some legacy players, and new generation, are not.

With chute, it can cloud their roping, while without, you will see clearly at the mistake performed.

People are fearless without parachute, it is rewarding, and pride. They fight for it. Showing that they aren't dependent on a pillow to land on.

If you wish, you can read the entire thread here to see for yourself:

https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/schemes/parachute-in-rope-based-schemes-32473/

He is not only disrespectful to the classic scheme, but also extremely disrespectful to the history of roping itself and the extremely talented players who spent countless hours competing in the highest skilled leagues and games that have ever existed in Worms Armageddon history, the people who spent countless hours inspiring many thousands of players.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fun gimmick to play without parachute, however after playing zar for a while, I found it to be too simple for my liking after spending many thousands of hours playing the original roper scheme. It wasn't harder or easier, it was boring to me personally, it lacked the skill of using parachute and other weapons, making important use of fall damage and worm placement.

I think zar is a good scheme, but it's no secret I will never get along with the person taking credit for it's existence and that alone is pretty much why I don't play it.

For the record I think the w2 guys like hULk that made their own league WR are using the best roper scheme that exists.

[Gabriel]

dude komo

the guy is literally an internet troll, you are just feeding him attention at this point

he can talk all he wants on forums, nobody takes him seriously

[Kradie]

sm0k, was the first person to introduce me to Worms 2 Roper (w2roper). I was Intrigued of the difficulty, because it offered 12 second turn time per turn. To me, less turn time per turn was hard at the time. I had to push myself to the limit, preferrable without fails, to do a successful turn.

sm0k, to my knowledge, he seemed to like the approach of w2roper. I suggested the idea to have no parachute, because to my understanding at the time, the concept of ''No Parachute'' was a novelty. sm0k, he seemed to like that, and from there, Zook & Rope (ZAR) was born.

So, if I understand correctly, in the past, people have claimed or more likely stated that they have played without parachute, correct? So, I assume a few games were played with no parachute, and the novelty wore off, yes? Therefore the itinerary was not present and was never fully realized.

ZaR, the unprecedented anomaly that no one could predict, the chaos that was born from a contrived past, which itself contained elements that were discarded, now shines bright.

To this date, people are more acquainted with ZaR, and the variety of sub-scheme it has. So normally, when people join a ZaR related scheme, they know what to expect. However, there are a few exception where people start to question the scheme integrity. So for example; They can be told by me, or by others, that they have entered a ZaR scheme, in which there are no parachute. The response of the people with the inquiry, can be middling. Some immediately quits, some chooses to press on, some says ''Hardcore'', or ''Interesting''. There are noromally no debates that pursues when such inquiry takes place. It all boils down to personal preference.

One of ZaR key strength lies in its community. I have played with every single person in ZaR, and not one to my knowledge are a bad person. There are none that I can see or tell that are a troll, and noob basher. Everyone are genuinely nice people. Yes there are people in ZaR that prefer zar roper over roper, but guess what? There are people in ZaR that actually likes roper more. But who really cares?


I didn't claim anything in my original thread....

Hello....

So I am just wondering which of these two schemes is the most difficult to you? ZaR Roper or Roper?

Which one do you fail on the most?
Which one do you succeed most in?
Which one do you handle stress the best in?
Which one are you more relaxed with?

https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/zar/zar-roper-harder-than-roper-33165/

[Micro]

Who cares

[TheKomodo]

Who cares

People who care.

[XanKriegor]

Before i met ZaR, i almost never played Roper coz it was difficult and "boring". After getting used to a scheme with more restrictions, i been seeing Roper as a smooth sailing in comparison with ZaR's hurricane of drive, coz you have no time there to correct your mistakes, you have to watch for mines, you have to remember where new passages are open due to explosions and stuff. Maybe all this is because my low roping skill, people like Smok may not even feel any difference between the two schemes.

[TheKomodo]

you have to remember where new passages are open due to explosions and stuff.

That's a good point actually, I completely forgot not everyone uses a resolution where you can see the entire screen, I use 1920x1080, so the whole map is visible in that resolution so being able to see is not an issue, neither is being able to see crates drop.

There are people who use that wkCrateFinder(is that correct?), they must be using a low resolution.

I guess a lot of your problems, personally speaking, are solved when you play on different game settings, I strongly believe the right/wrong game settings and hardware can make the experience less or more challenging depending on personal preference.

For example, without the right keyboard, I really struggle, a lot of people probably don't even realize they could be much better with a better keyboard and making use of wkRemapKeys and wkFKeyRearrange. This difference can be looking like an average player who can fail a lot and a top player who can do pretty much anything.

The mines are one of the biggest issues for me in roping schemes, personally I believe they generate luck and should be avoided, but that doesn't affect the difficulty in my opinion. For me, every variation of roper is simple, but that makes sense since i've been doing it for over 20 years.

[h3oCharles]

ever heard of dark souls?

[Kradie]

ever heard of dark souls?

LMAO!

ZaR, the Dark Souls of roping in WA.

[TheKomodo]

ever heard of dark souls?

Yes, what does that have to do with the current conversation?

[h3oCharles]

im so glad kradie got the joke

[TheKomodo]

im so glad kradie got the joke

Again, i'll ask, what has Dark Souls got to do with this conversation?

[Kradie]

ZaR's difficulty is equivalent of Dark Souls difficulty 

When you fail a turn in ZaR you receive the message in blood in black and white background ''You have failed''. And when you have died in ZaR Roper you get ''You have failed for the last time!''