Rope schemes without parachute

[Kradie]

Hello. I would like to ask a question. It is about the absence of parachute in rope schemes. It was asked years ago. I thought It could be Interesting to see where people stand on this today.

Do you think that the absence of parachute could Increase the difficulty of rope schemes such as: Shopper, Roper, Big RR, TTRR, and WxW? Or could it be all psychological?

If you don't believe that rope schemes without parachutes makes these modes harder: Would you like to explain why?

That's it for now.

[Triad]

If you don't believe that rope schemes without parachutes makes these modes harder: Would you like to explain why?

For Big RR, no parachute makes it harder, but also parachute+ldet makes it harder in a different way. Allow me to illustrate my point:

• No parachute makes it harder for faster ropers on smaller maps. Let's say I am playing with a better roper. If we both rope till the end without any mistakes, I'd lose since my opponent is faster than me. But if my opponent makes a mistake within, say, 10 seconds in a turn, they lose 30 seconds (since a turn in Big RR is 40 seconds). If the map is not as big, that might be all I need to win.
• No parachute+ldet make it harder for slower ropers on any map. Even if my opponent makes a mistake, they can just get up and continue roping, so if they are faster than me, they can still win easily.

[Rocket]

Interesting questions here, Kradie.
My own idea of entire roping has been through some changes during last couple of years. When I only started roping and some years onwards, while forging my skill, I was absolutely happy about parachute in rope schemes. After a big pause of 2012-2020, when I came back to Wormnet and saw ZaR concept, and tried some schemes of it, I generally liked the idea. And from that point in time I had two equally good ideas of roping: with and without parachute.
But some months ago, when I was forced to lower my activity and switched to offline gaming mostly (not to forget what the roping is), I began to treat parachute as something unnecessary. Those who play with me nowadays see that I ignore switching to parachute during the turn. Only while falling down risking to lose a turn. But I would be happy not to have this option if other players wouldn't have it too, so that we'd be equal on our rope runs. Not gonna lie, when playing roper, ttrr, big rr nowadays and seeing my opponent falling and then using parachute to save the run, a tiny voice in my head goes "Ah yes, chute... damn!" in disappointment.
So I'd love to play league rope schemes without parachute, although I know it'll never happen

[Lupastic]

it doesnt matter. it doesnt add anything too new or extra. for battle themed roping schemes it could be even annoying that you wouldnt be able to knock at all, some schemes that require serious knockings sometimes (and a para to open): shopper, roper, wxw shopper. it would be stupid to play these schemes without a handy, basic, important feature like the parachute. if we'd take para out of these schemes, it wouldn't make them more "difficult" or anything, it would make them sillier, plainer, more boring.
for races, its nothing too extra ordinary either

[TheKomodo]

I don't think it's more or less challenging, it's just different.

You focus on different things depending on the scheme settings.

You remember those racing games where you see the players have X out of 5 rating for different skills?

Speed - 4/5
Handling - 3/5
Armor - 2/5

Well for roping it's kinda like:

Speed - 5/5
Consistency - 3/5
Endurance - 4/5

With no parachute, you focus a little more on consistency and endurance and less on speed.

With parachute you can focus a little more on speed, and it's balanced because everyone generally feels the same way.

With rubberworm on you can focus entirely on speed as consistency is kind of on "auto-aim". But it still means you have to rely 100% on skill.

Since the human skill ceiling is impossible to reach TA levels neither is "easier" or "harder", it's just different because what matter is the competition and we are humans vs humans.

If it was Vs AI, then it would be definitively easier or harder based on their capabilities.

[TheWalrus]

It all depends on what you want to see.  Do you want speed roping in rope race?  Parachute and LDET.  Do you want consistency rope race?  No parachute.  ZaR roper is a more punishing, more luck based roper than 15sec TUS roper.  I appreciate all of them, especially the legendary CaveZaR, but for rope race I generally like parachute and people trying faster techniques than just trying not to fall.

My option is TUS big rr should have LDET/para to make it as fast as possible, now it is basically a don’t fall competition.  TUS already has a lot of schemes that basically destroy you if you fall just once I.e. roper, ttrr.  I’d like to see these schemes become less punitive for greater variety.

[TheKomodo]

My option is TUS big rr should have LDET/para to make it as fast as possible, now it is basically a don’t fall competition.  TUS already has a lot of schemes that basically destroy you if you fall just once I.e. roper, ttrr.  I’d like to see these schemes become less punitive for greater variety.

Actually, rubberworm is what you need to make it as fast as possible.

You don't need to use f keys at all as rope is the only thing you have and need.

You bounce instead of fall and don't ever have to wait to shoot rope again.

You even have new tricks you need to learn that can actually make you get round parts faster than what was even possible before.

It's a completely new game and IMO it's for the best of the best as there are less limits. Which means it all comes down to how physically fast you are and your endurance.

[Sbaffo]

I like rubberworm for real time big rrs

[TheKomodo]

Actually when I say best of the best, I really just mean those who can rope the fastest.

That doesn't mean taps, those who can accelerate and brake faster than others.

[vesuvio]

ha

[Kradie]

I think, if you rope without parachute, you ''can'' achieve the same level of speed as you would with parachute. Of course this is without parachute handling techniques, and general falls here and there. You just have to be consistent, as well as fast, precise, and time your spikes and any other tricks for maximum efficiency. But this is hard to achieve at times, and you have to be a robot or TAS.

I agree that with ldet as well with bounce, you can get more out of your turn as you would without parachute. Because In a turn, where you would normally fail, you get to recovery Instantaneously in motion, but then again it depends on the type of fail and speed.

I like all of yours thoughts on the matter. Because of this, I think I may add Ldet to ZaR RR.

The foundation of ZaR is for it to offer a harder alternative. Think of it as a video game with difficulty settings to choose from. That's basically it. The higher the setting, the more difficult it can become the more the player has to overcome that new obstacle, setting, & challenge. This analogy might be flawed though. But I think it holds up.

[TheKomodo]

The foundation of ZaR is for it to offer a harder alternative.

It's not harder though, it's just different lol.

You KNOW your opponent has the same risk of falling as you do. Generally speaking you won't take risks that outweigh the reward.

So it's still just as challenging a playing field based on the fact we are humans not robots.

In my opinion ANY scheme only gets "easier" or "harder" when the current best player bar is raised or lowered.

Which is why debating which schemes are harder than others are pointless because the difficulty/challenge is based on current activity, not the scheme settings.

And of course, anything is easy to learn anyway.

[FoxHound]

It all depends on what you want to see.  Do you want speed roping in rope race?  Parachute and LDET.  Do you want consistency rope race?  No parachute.  ZaR roper is a more punishing, more luck based roper than 15sec TUS roper.  I appreciate all of them, especially the legendary CaveZaR, but for rope race I generally like parachute and people trying faster techniques than just trying not to fall.

My option is TUS big rr should have LDET/para to make it as fast as possible, now it is basically a don’t fall competition.  TUS already has a lot of schemes that basically destroy you if you fall just once I.e. roper, ttrr.  I’d like to see these schemes become less punitive for greater variety.

I completely agree.

Actually, rubberworm is what you need to make it as fast as possible.

You don't need to use f keys at all as rope is the only thing you have and need.

You bounce instead of fall and don't ever have to wait to shoot rope again.

You even have new tricks you need to learn that can actually make you get round parts faster than what was even possible before.

It's a completely new game and IMO it's for the best of the best as there are less limits. Which means it all comes down to how physically fast you are and your endurance.

I completely agree.


Wow, I never thought old school people would be saying this about LDET and Rubber bounciness. I'm surprised.

LDET or Rubber bounciness confirmed for future RR scheme? If Rubber bounciness, the value of it should be discussed. 20%, 40%, 50%, 70%?
I'd say something between 10 and 40 percent, but I would have to test a lot to reach a conclusion.

[Kradie]

And of course, anything is easy to learn anyway.

But that's not simply true. This is completely anecdotal. It is not black and white here, there are factors that comes into play here: Age, brain, motivation, , behavior, intelligence, nutrition, the past, the now, and more. I am no expert on the matter, but in general it is not easy for everyone to learn new things. A child can learn an Instrument easier than an adult for example. When adults learn new things, it can cause them frustrations among other things.

If you have learned something in the past, and later meet something contradictory of what you learned, you will have a difficult time to learn. You must unlearn what you already learned.

So to my experience here on WA, some old schoolers may have difficult time to accept the absence of parachute. Why? I theorize that their brain doesn't compute with their past memory, and how they used to play. I seen many ropers rope Inefficient and messed up their turns because of the freedom the parachute provided them. Spectacle wise it is Impressive, but it does not promote efficiency, and consistency.

Long ago, I made Bounce ZAR RR, but each time I heard the bounce, I felt I was hit by a brick. It reminded me of how inefficient I was. But now I understand that it is all about speed. It is all different take in the end.

[TheKomodo]

No, trust me. EVERYTHING is easy to learn for humans because we do things exactly how we want.

We are great at teaching and great at learning.

It's easy when you have the cheat code how to actually get good at anything.

Everyone had that potential trust me.

You can do almost anything anyone else can, maybe even better than the best than currently exist.

Even with disabilities, it's either impossible, or possible. The challenge is finding the right instructions and safe practising grounds.

Once you got that. You basically just respect failure as natural element of the universe because that literally teaches you what you are doing wrong so you can keep adjusting until you're fine tuned Into that specific area.

It's easy. It just takes focus and patience.