Quote from: Korydex on April 26, 2024, 06:33 PM

I think there should be a rule if you play on custom terrain the map MUST be converted to png. Because if not people without the module can't watch the replay and the map isnt visible on game page!

https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-242004/msg296759/#msg296759

some players prefer em not to be converted cuz the "league rules" say so (mutual agreement inbetween players ??)

I have to clarify here, Lupastic isn't sharing the right information.

The league rules DO NOT say anything about custom terrains or custom terrains being converted. There is no rule that says anything about maps cannot be converted.

It's a personal preference for ME because maps converted to PNG look different to normal and I prefer normal, I don't like having to squint my eyes on PNG backgrounds when lining up BnG shots, that shit actually physically hurts when you do it long enough.

What I believe Lupastic is referring to is this general rule for players agreeing on maps:

Both players/clans need to agree on the map.

There is no rule or rules stating which maps are and aren't considered "valid" however there is a general rule that dictates you can refuse a map for any reason you want.

Ideally, having a win % wouldn't be such an issue...

Though, when you have a small handful of top players, and the rest are sort of average, this is what happens. If we had enough top players it would be fine everyone playing each other.

If we have no win % required, and that they only need to play the right amount of games, then all you do is if 13 people have more than 30 games played, the 8 with the best win % make the Playoffs, that seems fair!

I agree, walrus for president!

As long as a for example a trick race challenge replay can't be voided because a mexican swoosh was performed by accident instead of a swoosh (unless it is clearly stated in the description of the challenge that a mexican swoosh doesn't count as swoosh) I don't have an issue. We seem to have a fundamental disagreement about the importance how rope tricks look to determine what that trick is and that's fine. If I was abrasive, difficult or a smart ass at points in the discussion I apologize.

Yeah, to be honest, it's pretty cool that we even have different ways of measuring these things. People have different ways of interpreting things, so the good thing is, you have a method you like, I have a method I like, we both together know and understand both methods and their differences so we can still agree on any particular event with absolute certainty and award judgement accordingly.

Sorry if I came across as a pain as well, but thanks for sticking in there and helping us out!

In this case you can't see the grenade touching the wall. In your view does this mean the bounce doesn't count and that the red team didn't win the game? It looks like the grenade was repulsed by a magnetic force, perhaps you would like to say it was repulsed instead of bounced in this case? The replay is attached.

You can hear bounce off the wall and you can see that it changed direction.

Not sure what you are trying to achieve here other than trying to be a smartarse now?

We don't judge "tricks" with grenades or how they hit, we just use them to hit. It's not as relevant HOW they hit, unless you play BnG with rules like no sitters, but do you know what I mean?

A scenario where two players are playing trick race:

Quote

*Player 1 does a swoosh after 10 minutes of trying*
Player 2: That was kind of close to the edge, let's close the game and look at the replay frame by frame to make sure it wasn't a mexican swoosh.
*Turns out it was a mexican swoosh*
Player 2: You must try to do it again, you didn't do a swoosh. Now let's start the game, teleport back to our old positions and resume playing.

This is unreasonable and cumbersome to me. This scenario is one practical reason for why I'm arguing against the notion that how it looks is what counts. It's so this doesn't become the way we have to do things, as you say f that.

Do you think I have pity for 2 players who can't do a pretty easy enough move after 10 minutes of trying in a Trick Race lol? Sounds like they need to get better lol.

Try harder though Masta. It's not a good enough example to change my mind, the way I measure it is still more practical in my opinion.

If it's so bad, then just do what Triad and I did, allow mexican swooshes to count as swooshes. The way you do it is unreasonable and cumbersome to me, it literally takes longer to check it your way than my way. At least if you are watching in slow motion waiting to see the rope angle if you don't have access to TA.

Technically speaking we ARE actually using the information you reminded us of though, just in a different way from what you want, it was useful though, thanks!

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If you ARE trying to convince me otherwise though, tackle it with this approach... Don't tell me what's more practical for YOU, think of something that would appeal to ME.

Right now, I see zero actual problems with doing it your way OR my way, they are both valid ways of measuring, it's just that the way I do it is more comfortable, feels more natural, it's faster to check for me personally etc. It also feels more traditional, historic and authentic to me.

The way you do it, you couldn't even check with the original game. So if you want to convince me you're going to have to think of something that appeals to me, not you since this is based on opinion.

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Oh, one more thing!

Don't worry about it anyway, if you want to make a trick race and ALLOW it, then you are free to allow it in that Trick Race, you can say "This is what is considered a genune swoosh in this challenge" then define it any way you want.

*BUMP*

5 days left to vote!

what you linked there doesn't answer the questions though.. neither the terrains, nor converting to PNG is mentioned there, that's why I asked here.

It does answer the question Lupastic, it says specifically, "Both players/clans need to agree on the map.".

I'm not sure if you're aware but that means you can disagree for any reason, it means if they don't all agree on the map, then you can't use it, period. Regardless how the map is made, whether you made it, whether someone else made it.

I don't see why you don't understand this? The way it's written covers ANY reason to refuse a map. Which is why I said when we pick TTRR you can request a different map, something that you feel comfortable playing on, and that I'd rather not pick TTRR anyway since Zalo doesn't like it, but we were trying to save time.

You said Bo1 at first anyway, then changed your mind... I've openly stated I hate playing Bo3 games but I had no problem doing it for your clanner since you were in a rush anyway.

Then Zalo had to go anyway and we didn't get to play ours LOL! Which is fine by me we can play again later, it was a little annoying but stuff like this happens and we'll see you another day it's ok.

doesn't the original picker of the scheme decide if they wanna use wkterrains or not, convert it to PNG or not? since u cannot beg for it forever to be changed again and again.. sure if someone has problems with the map size, shape, format etc, that can be discussed. but wkterrains do have freedom to be picked I guess - at least that's what I thought so far. and I have never seen anyone asking not to convert the map to PNG, and manually place 100% objects on the map beforehand.. this only helps the map to be better quality. and that is not called mutually agreeing to something, it's called one player complains as long as the other changes it to sth suitable.. but my original question is: is this even legit, as one player is not the picker of the scheme?

Well for starters, custom terrains are not part of the official game, you need a module to use them, you cannot force people to use things which aren't even features of the standard game.

At least you have the option to use them with other people who like using them.

As for PNG maps, my personal reason for refusing to use PNG maps that have been converted like this is because the background has weird colours and changes how the destroyed soil is displayed on screen when you use the background that I use.

I've been playing default schemes the exact same way for over 20 years using the exact same background, that's what my eyes are used to, that's how I'm used to judging destroyed soil for pixel perfect shots and bounces. Then people started using this background in BnGs and it was affecting some of my shots because I couldn't see things the way they used to be and it was offputting to me I couldn't get used to it. So I stopped playing them.

Now, I cannot remember this word for word but Sensei said he likes using PNG only when he plays BnG and other schemes because it helps him see the destroyed soil better. So clearly there are people who have issues either way. It's a shame we can't have both, so you can use PNG map and I can see it as normal.

Anyway, those 2 issues that I have with custom terrains and PNG converted maps are issues that not everyone has, which is why it's optional to agree or disagree on the map. The point is that, if anyone isn't happy with the map choice, they have the right to refuse to play.

Now, if it's 2 fresh picks and you have first pick and you have 1 scheme and 1 map in mind to play and someone refuses, then you can just abandon the match and play someone else. If you've already played their pick, and then they refuse your map, if you aren't happy you can report a free win make a complaint I guess. Though if your opponent has a valid reason for refusing the map then it's likely you will have to pick another map and play the match anyway.