Here is the 'insert any fail' title missing. But I like the slogan so far.

Hey, since I am a fan of Star Trek and I love the facepalm pictures that were made with Picard etc. I finally found the opportunity to create my own one, but I need your help! This is a scene in which someone gets double facepalmed, but it's the same person! So give me some ideas. Here's one of mine.

My opinion is biased, I view things too objective... wait a moment...

I usually try to see the bigger picture, and sometimes that can be bad when it's important to judge some things within a smaller place. There are 2 worlds clashing and in my opinion you can't just say scheme 'abc' is better because its less luckier or it is more fun. Fun for example can be everything. So when so many people are trying to fix something like a scheme there are basically hundred ways of handling it.

And yeah, avirex is probably right. Past has proven that CHANGE is only something Obama can do.

We are certainly good at talking, but doing isn't our strength. It's probably because there is too much effort in it. I tried to make some new rope scheme/s and I was hyped all up, but the feedback was rather low and people just don't really care. I think that Avirex more aggressive way of trying to change something is better than mine calmed way of changing something.

What I have noticed too is that even if we could mathematically prove that scheme 1 is superior to scheme 2 people won't just suddenly stop playing scheme 2. It has never worked like that in a game that is so old. Sure when a game is new everyone is trying things, make suggestions and they are considered. But after I don't know, 10 years of W:A we didn't really have many drastic changes. The Major thing was in my opinion the RR evolution to TTRR and the deletion of cr8s in elite. And if you think of it, it was not a crucial change. The schemes just got minor changes. Even if we nail the problems down, everyone will talk about it but noone does anything in the end. That's a bit lazy.

But you can't enforce people to magically drop scheme 1 to play scheme 2. If the majority agrees with changes but still like it the old way nothing will ever change. Except leagues enforce people to play other schemes.

Quote from: HHC on September 09, 2010, 11:48 AM
Not planning to Kai.  

Btw, the example that you give in football is a little different.. it's more like a bug in Worms Reloaded, like when a worm suddenly gains 100 health or so.

You gotta realize that by pushing for increasingly 'skill'-based schemes you are turning a fun game into.. well.. a napoleonic pitched battle where both armies meet at a prearranged place, under prearranged conditions and in a strict prearranged order (every compagny in neatly organized blocks of men). Then the armies march towards eachother and the army with the last man standing wins the match.
What I'm saying is that by adding random circumstances you free the battle from these strict rules and allow for much more improvisation and a totally different order of battle every time you play. You know, instead of these organized pitched battles you get a much more dynamic warfare in which it is far less important how good your riffles are or how good your plan is, but instead the focus is on adapting to the circumstances and making the best use of the opportunities you are offered.. and on the basis of these factors decide which plan you are going to push through.

Hmm.. let's stick with Civilization. By your logic, to make the game more skill based, each player must have equal access to the same resources. Therefore, the game must be played on a mirror-map in which each side starts on exactly the same terrain as his opponent and with the resources located at exactly the same spots. Furthermore each player must start with the same technology tree, there may be no random treasures on the map giving any benefits (if there are any in civ i dunno  ), etcetera.
Sure it's fair, but is it cool to play it that way? Wouldn't it be much cooler to start on a random map with different circumstances for each player? One by the sea, one further inland and so forth?

A good player will still win 90% of the matches. Same in Worms. I win about 90% in Worms: Reloaded, despite the fact that everything is random. On the long run, when you play 1000 games each season, the luck-factor becomes negligent as the percentage of 'outlucked' games will be similar to that of the opponent. In a tournament it is slightly different, but still, does the most skilled person have to win every single tournament?

Your Civ example is quite good, I did play Civ4 competitive and 1v1 and 2v2 were mostly played on Mirrow maps. But these maps didn't contain just the same resources, one had cupper the other had Iron. But both Improvements allowed the played to build axemen, eventhough Iron is better cause it could be used to build swordsmen. The developers of such games take a lot of time to balance the randomness, we don't have a pack of people that spent time balancing every Percentage of the drop-rates in our schemes. The Civs in Civ4 all had different 'speccs', that means if you picked Romanian Empire you had better swordsmen in the early game. So basically you had to rush for an early confrontation while a Civ like, I think it was India had Worker Units that could build things on the landscape twice as fast, hence gathering resources faster. In Civ4 there was no ultimate Civ, though the Civs that were strong in later game phases weren't usually picked in these mirrow maps  because they are small to start off with. You had to decide yourself if you wanted to rush the enemy or just dig in an try to defend.

About the Tech-Tree. Yes Civ4 had for every Civilization the same Tech-Tree, it's the freedom of choice and you got other benefits from your Civ 'speccs' that made you different to other Civs. But the starting Tech's for every Civ were different. Also you had to do so many decisions that you can't say every Civ has the same Tech-Tree at all. Some Civs need to focus on Religion/warfare etc. It even depended on the situation, which resources you have on your pile of land etc.

Well Civ is a big topic and in my opinion by far the best turn-based Stretegy game. (After Worms of course ) So lets stop the Civ example.

I am just saying that most randomness is very balanced in other games/things. We need randomness in T17, it's built around that but it needs to be balanced like any other game. Think of all the RTS games like Starcraft. It's also necessary to be able to always counter a specific weapon, in my opinion at least.

Komo pretty much sums it up. I personally don't think that adding randomness to league schemes makes it more interesting, it would just make it more frustrating for people that value skill over luck. In competitive play most people think that luck shouldn't be involved. For example the referee calls that are sometimes wrong in soccer (football) are often reason for a whole flame of both, players and fans to get rid off. Some goals that are called off-side or goals that shouldn't be given (see Germany vs. England in WC) There are people like you HHC that think it should be kept this way, and there are people like me that think luck isn't supposed to be win/loss determining.

P.S.: Are you getting Civilization 5 HHC? Coming out soon.

Quote from: Almog on September 03, 2010, 07:58 PM
ok, a few things
Random, eventhough I did post this after I talked to you, that doesn't mean I don't or didn't believe you, I do.. you're not an avoider.. it just reminded me that I wanted to post a thread about it

Camperz .. who the ---- are you? get lost, I didn't ask you, I asked the mods.. I didn't say anything about people getting scared of me, and yes, btw, you're one of the guys avoiding.. I just call out your name so people know you're lame

Anus, it doesn't matter whether mods can or cant do anything.. the point in calling out their names is to show everyone how they act and that will eventually lead to less avoiding

and last thing, I wouldn't call out names who I just "thought" avoiding.. I'll have prooves, screenshots of them asking other people for tus and then avoiding me
or when I'm in ag asking "tus ne1" and they go asking people on private messaging if they wanted to tus

So what? It is their decision, some people like to be a carebear, some people don't care if they lose, and some people can't stand someone. There is no ultimate solution popping out of nowhere when you 'prove' them to be avoiding you. It just proves that they don't play vs. you.

Worms community has always been the community where there are a hundred whiners all the time about everything/everybody. Most of these complaints I see are from people well over 20 years old, can't believe that to be honest! If I think back about what I complained about, which was rare to start with, I would be ashamed of myself lol.

Yes avoiding is OK, there is nothing you can do about it, except if you want to have silly discussions about it and eventually it will end up having flame-wars. I don't know but if someone doesn't want to play vs. me for whatever reason I won't care. I will just move on. Be it because the person fear to lose points, doesn't like me or just has no time atm.

And no you should NOT call out names, the mods can't do anything about it since there is no rule regarding that. Even if there were a rule it would still be very very strange to judge if someone doesn't play you because he fears to lose points or just doesn't want to play vs. you.

Good step.

Both, Chicken and Komo are right. In a different forum/community w/e you would be both satisfied. Tom could ignore people that have a bad behavior because, well, within 2-3 hours such people would be banned from the forums anyway. Komo could complain about someone that is insulting other people and within 2-3 hours they would be banned. Yes in other communities and forums you get banned for something like this easily. This forum/community is a special place that's why it isn't handled like any other place would do with this situation. Even such kinds of threads would be closed shortly and the one opening this thread would be warned, or ,because this is not the first thread, banned.

The problem is, that if you once have it to this point you can't go back. Or you will be called biased (look at FB). If you don't punish people for bad behavior in the very first place ( I am sure there were similar or worse situations months ago) it will go out of hand and the whole bad behavior thing is getting out of control. This discussion shouldn't even be held.

Let me take this straight to the owner/mods to this league:

Is it allowed to insult, have bad sportsmanship in the league? (It does NOT matter who started to insult, or cause the insults months/years ago) If player 1 first gets insulted by player 2 and then player 1 insults back: warn/bann both. That is how you should handle this, make clear guidelines.

Because right now nobody knows what is really going on, some may think Zippo and nino/free got warned/forum banned because the pressure of the community put on you caused you to react. But in my honest opinion, that is totally wrong. Have you got no rules set up for forum behavior or in-game behavior? If not, do it immediately. If you decide to say, well people should handle it themselves because we don't want to be like league XY, well why do you care about a past league that has died? This is your league, make it clear to everyone and whoever can't adapt to that, well upper right is the 'x' button.

Just my opinion that I have gathered through various other leagues/forums/communities.

P.S.: I highly doubt it is possible to make the ultimate site for everyone. :p

And so it begins...   :[

lol nino puto that's really evil to say. xD Especially when you mean it serious.

When I was younger I would have felt a bit uncomfortable when someone would have said such things while I was in a proud clan like dt or sCa. It always depends on the situation and what something means to someone. It's like these religion discussion, for someone like me it wouldn't matter if someone says bad things about a religion but for someone else it may does.

Another thing is, if you know someone gets mad quite fast about minor things, then you shouldn't try to provoke it.

I am not defending Zippo, just trying to point out some things that are in my opinion overseen and very important.

Not really that active though. Wanted to comeback but got bored quickly. :[

That should be a rule!