Yeah, I agree with you. I think in 3.8 I doubt there is another better way to deal with this "glitch" or whatever it is. I think hysteria can be played in different ways and people should try new forms of play and see if they like it or not.

I did the same question about this "phenomenon", but an article on WKB was created saying it is a glitch so it is a bit confusing. I do think it is something undesirable to the game most of the time specially in some schemes like Petrolia, Hysteria, Aerial, Roper and WxW that this happens more frequently. Even very good players are harmed by this phenomenon that you may know how to avoid it, but it will limit your plays.

I'm not against it, I like this phenomenon the same way I like many fixed WA glitches. Neocombat for example is a scheme that explores "Terrain overlap phasing glitch" and this is awesome in my opinion. sbs made a map that you need to force this glitch to reach the finish of a race, and it is fantastic!

I apreciate this concept of Jet Pack BnG's headbutting grenades, so phased worms may not be the ideal solution to this phenomenon, but as a scheme option it can be interesting depending on the scheme. I believe in Hysteria would be great, since you have no time to headbutt grenades and with phased worms+weapons you can try very beautiful shots, including bazooka drops against the wind.

Hi, sorry to revive this discussion. I just figured out something that can be interesting to hysteria, using 3.8 features. You know that glitch that happens when you are firing a bazooka against the wind from the Jet Pack (the bazooka instantly blows in the worm's face in mid air)? I had an insight today and discovered that this glitch can be 100% "fixed" now, but with a "cost", side effects that affect the gameplay. You just need to select the option "Phased Worms (Allied) --> Worms+Weapons" and the glitch will never happen anymore, so you can fire a zook against the wind from the jet pack with no fear to explode in your worm's face, the same goes for some grenade shots that bounces on the worm's back. I know this glitch can be used in purpose, but I believe it is much more a frustration than a benefit. About the side effects, yeah, the cow will pass through allied worms, you will be able to shot through allied worms, you will not be able to use an allied worm as a step to jump and reach another place and allied worms will not block you. These are considerable changes to the gameplay, some people may not like this idea, but I believe it would make Hysteria (or Selecsteria) even more interesting. The Jet Pack shots are so amazing, now they can be fully explored. What do you think?

Quote from: Korydex on October 22, 2020, 08:39 AM
Regarding Schemes page. Most known schemes have articles already, I think an article could to be written for Elemental as it is mentioned.

Yes, it would be good. I know that Elemental first appeared in WO and then in 2010 it was added to TUS schemes and even to the leagues (see thread).

Quote from: Korydex on October 22, 2020, 08:39 AM
Also could add PX schemes, but definitely can't do it myself because I'm not a PX player.

Good point. I don't know about what the other editors would think about adding PX schemes, since they never added a section for this, but maybe one day they will be there. There are already the PX wiki and the PX Forum, though.

Hi, I was thinking that Worms Knowledge Base needs a page to teach and explain about Rope Tricks. It would be good since Rope Tricks are very important to WA community. It would be good to people learn how to play Trick Race more easily too. This is not an easy task though and propbably will generate a lot of polemical discussions. What do you think about this? Note that I had a talk about this idea with KRD on this page (please, read it). My knowledge about Rope Tricks is not so good, so I would like to receive any help to construct this page. I can do Gifs of the tricks and some replays and information would help a lot too. Anything you can do to make that page happen would be apreciated.

Hi, I would like to say that Scheme ideas page is being updated (Schemes page too). The idea is to put a lot of great different scheme ideas of WA community united in one page that list the scheme articles. You can contribute with this project writing important schemes that the page is missing here or editing the wiki by yourselves.

Ah, these pages will help you a lot too... They received a lot of updates recently and are still being updated by the way.

• The weapons articles of Worms Knowledge Base are very good for you to learn tricks, tips, details and tactics
• The schemes articles of Worms Knowledge Base have lots of information about each scheme you wanna learn

This is a good guide to play Rope Race: http://d1.worms2d.info/tutorials.htm

Quote from: TheWalrus on October 12, 2020, 03:57 PM
Your reach exceeds your grasp

Oh, it seems this is a beautiful verse from a Robert Browning poem. English is not my native language and poetry is not a simple thing to understand, I'm more used with portuguese language poets. I think I got what you mean with this sentence by the context, though. Now your explanation makes a lot of sense, there is a good logic behind it. I'm really not used to play in WA competitions and Hysteria is not a scheme I dominate. So, you can be right, I would accept playing to see in practice your point. As it is written in Selecsteria description, the scheme can be changed. Kaleu is open for alterations. The "no telecow" rule issue is still valid, in my opinion.

Quote from: TheKomodo on October 11, 2020, 02:54 PM
Great post, you are one of the few people who have ever discussed this as an opinion based on what you personally think is fun and competitive.

Thank you, I like to discuss this kind of thing. I'm enjoying this discussion.

Well, good points about adding manual worm placement to Selecsteria. I usually don't like too much the manual placement because sometimes it takes too much time before the match starts, however in hysteria league the pattern is 4 worms for each player so it is not so much time doing this (and it is competitive play). The scheme already has a workaround to deal with initicial bad positions which is delay in all weapons for one turn, this way, you can select the worm standing on the most dangerous place during hot-seat time and teleport it to a safer place. I think randomness is nice sometimes even though when the worms are too exposed this is not good.

Quote from: TheWalrus on October 11, 2020, 06:20 PM

You've made the scheme more unfair than it previously was, fractional round timer makes it even more unbalanced.

About fractional round timer I really don't understand Walrus' point of view because the Sudden Death of all normal schemes works this way, appearing normally. In hysteria if you want Sudden Death you necessarily have to skip one turn (this means you will not attack, being more vulnerable) to make it happen. In Selecsteria you can attack at the very end of the time and still make Sudden Death come sooner and even after the opponent's attack it will count on the timer, so it will help who is losing to have a chance to win with the flood (a different scenario). And just a reminder: who created Selecsteria was not me, was Kaleu. I just helped him with some 3.8 new features possibilities and with testings. But, yes, I liked the scheme and yes, I posted it here.

Quote from: TheKomodo on October 11, 2020, 02:54 PM

With that being said, if the scheme itself changes from Hysteria to Selecsteria, that won't bother me, because it changes the gameplay and strategy dramatically so it deserves a different name and will be considered an entirely different scheme

Yeah, I think maybe the same way there are a lot of Poker variants, Cue sports variants, Hysteria could have the tradicional Hysteria and Selecsteria or another proposal dealing with the polemical "telecow" or even the other existing variations of this scheme (like the ones that use alternative weapons, like low powered banana instead of grenade).

And I definitely agree with TheKomodo's point of view that attacking your own worms and pilling is a valid strategy, I just think that the "telecow" subject is already a tendency, and maybe TUS should open an alternative play to people who want to play Hysteria in a different way, more focusing on the hard shots than a "conventional gameplay-related strategy". I think BnG rules exist for a reason, someone thought that a sitting nade is not as fun or as pro as grenades that explode exactly at the right time, that direct shots are not so fun as well calculated indirect shots. I believe "no telecow" rule is something in this direction.

Quote from: TheKomodo on October 11, 2020, 02:54 PM

For example, i'd be more than happy to stream and commentate on Selecsteria Tournaments, possibly even donate a little cash to an already existing prizepool, to see multiple people get involved and really give it a good test.

Oh, I really apreciate people who have this type of iniciative.

Hi TheKomodo, first of all I'm not sure if you are writing this to me or to Kaleu, the author of the scheme proposal. Your quote is not from my post, is from the scheme's description, written by Kaleu. I don't really play TUS leagues, at least until now, but I like competitive play and I am a really big fan of schemes. Hysteria is a scheme created by Run! in 2007 (after beta updates that allowed to play with only 1 second) and the league scheme is already a modified version of the original scheme which does not have Low Gravity in it.

Note that a rule or a new feature that appears in a game logic version can make a scheme more fun to play. When I say more "fun" sometimes this "fun" can be replaced by the word "pro" too, depending on the case. WxW is a very popular scheme that originated from a new rule in shopper that you should touch the two walls of the map before attacking. This rule and later some specialized maps turned the scheme different and often more challenging, still being a variation of the original shopper scheme (which is still played a lot). I believe that things evolve not only thinking in living beings, but society, humanity and, why not? Worms and schemes too. So, maybe hysteria will be played in different ways in the future or not. People had decided that Low Gravity makes hysteria more fun to play, increasing possibilities and beautiful shots. Also, a lot of people accepted and liked the rule "no telecow", Kaleu is not the only person defending this concept. Personaly I don't like when I join a game and the host does not talk about any rules of the scheme, then since you don't know if "telecow" is allowed or not, you teleport to use the worm rotation abuse tactic and then people get angry saying that "it was cow". However, I see Hysteria as an artillery game, like BnG, but different, exploring the hotkeys. It is a game about beautiful and hard shots, when you teleport behind someone that is winning by using complex technics of pressing hotkeys combinations very fast and then kills the worms of this person in a much easier way, for me is like playing WxW against someone who dominates the rope like no other, do not fell from the rope and did beautiful plays, then you use "Scales of Justice" and the health bars are the same again. I'm not against Scales of Justice, it is actually pretty good in some schemes, but not in others. I see Worm Rotation Abuse ("telecow") in a similar way, because making a pile of your worms to protect them from the worm rotation abuse can be a strategy, but I see it more as a (dangerous) workaround to deal with this frustrating situation that you cannot really do much about it. Telecow is already a reality by many hysteria players and now version 3.8 allowed some interesting features that can be very interesting in Hysteria (without adding any rules). I think Hysteria can be played the two ways, only the time will say how people will play this scheme.

About Kaleu, I know him and I can say that he is not really attacking Hysteria, because he really likes this scheme, not only that, he is a very good player of Hysteria and knows very well how TUS leagues work. Maybe the word "unfair" the way it is written on that description wasn't the best choice to express why he is proposing a new scheme to the actual version of Hysteria league one. He already played this scheme with me and with other players, and maybe this scheme will appear in tournaments, it is a very new scheme...

Just saying: I'm a big fan of Hysteria, even though I'm not very good playing it. For me Run! is a genius and was very inspired creating this scheme, because it could have flopped and did not receive much attention (another person could have used the new 1 second possibility more succesfully), but the set of weapons was very well thought and the scheme settings too (even the name is very good), balancing well the sudden death with the resources of the time without 3.8's actual "fractional round timer" feature that Kaleu is including in Selecsteria (the scheme proposal is not only about "telecow").

This scheme has no Old Woman. The description says it has. There is an inconsistency there. Also, is this an update of the original Power Prodder scheme or a variation? This is not clear.

EDIT: I realized I was confused the time I was writing this, because I was thinking about the 2016 scheme as if it were the old scheme. That explains why I was not understanding the TUS description of the scheme. The description is correct, there is nothing wrong with it. This scheme added Old Woman to it, the old scheme didn't have grannies.

I would like to post Kaleu's proposal to the Hysteria league scheme, using v3.8 features to avoid the "Telecow" (worm rotation abuse) without using a rule for that and also making Sudden Death arrival something more natural (now people don't need to skip turns for this).

Selecsteria: https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-3398/

For example, if I select the values shown on this attached image (only modifying the part at the very top of the settings) and then generate a map, it will generate one, but if I remove the scaled view, it will appear an error and the program will close. I believe maybe with the custom images selected it may cause bugs, turning the map "heavy", because I remember using the program and sometimes when I clicked generate map, the progress bar didn't advance, so I would wait forever and the map wouldn't be generated, so I had to manually close the program. But the way it is, it's already is possible to do a lot of things. And, yeah I missed a text box to add to the map, good to know you plan to implement this.

About my map, I edited it on paint to write the text with the name of the map and its author (even though the program itself did like 99% of the job), then I converted the map to 113 colors using gimp. I don't know if 113 colors the transparency is worse or not, but I always converted to 113. I also painted the transparent area of the map to black on paint before the conversion with gimp. In the map editor, I raised the water level, changed the "level" to the "art" one even though this would be only useful with 64 colors which would remove the quality of the pictures and the background effects would appear hidden by the bottom part of the map. I also added Border because I think it is better looking this way, the screen only shows the map itself not it floating on a large area. And the map is a cave, there is no open areas to make it open. Ah when I saved the map after my changes in the map editor, I believe it changed the transparency too, because the map background was black and when I saved there it became transparent again (seeing the image externaly with a viewer program).

I just made a map using this program. It is fantastic! Congratulations! I noticed it crashes if you change some numbers too much, though.

The map: https://www.wmdb.org/38518