Quote from: Komito on May 02, 2013, 07:00 AM
Ryan, you ONLY have to do less if you plan on roping the exact same way you have before this script, this ADDS possibilities, it doesn't take them away, it makes it just the same, if not make it even harder to be the best... Think about it carefully please?


If no one understands this by now, well, they never will... I've said it the best it can be said really...

It was only a general "thought" anyway, not something I actually desperately want done, afaik, it has 0.01% of ever happening.

Edited because I sounded harsh.
Komo, you will know by reading the posts, regardless of my response that a script that does stuff for you removes skill.

It does appear that you are hanging onto an obtuse opinion and that you are debating with the wrong crowd,
especially when it involves RR.

Just drop it and move on

Quote from: Anubis on May 02, 2013, 10:39 PM

Quote from: Dub-c on May 02, 2013, 10:31 PM

Quote from: Anubis on May 02, 2013, 09:01 PM
We can do a cup with the script! Maybe it doesn't even change anything and is just a convenient script for top tier ropers that have the timing right anyway and it just reduces hardware mistakes. But it certainly is a big help for ppl that are new to fingerroll, no doubt.

Top tier ropers don't fingerroll. Only noobs who couldn't hack it with one finger do.

That's like saying people that use both feet to jump in basketball (because you can jump higher with it than with 1 foot) are worse than people that only jump with 1 foot.

Oh man, we're not even halfway through 2013, and there's already a front-runner in the worst analogy competition. You take the cake.

You don't get it?

Ever heard of layup?

I do, can you answer my question now please.

Quote from: Anubis on May 03, 2013, 02:08 AM
I do, can you answer my question now please.

He's inferring that you can jump higher off of one foot than two, physically demonstrated best by a basketball layup, which is absolutely and unequivocally correct.  Anus would know this if he watched basketball.  Which you should, Kai.

On this novella of a topic, everyone using a script like this should be hunted down and caned.  Except Anubis, he already has had 10 years of backlash under his belt. 

Quote from: TheWalrus on May 03, 2013, 03:36 AM
On this novella of a topic, everyone using a script like this should be hunted down and caned.  Except Anubis, he already has had 10 years of backlash under his belt. 

Anubis is the anti script.

Quote from: Mayhem on May 03, 2013, 04:58 AM

Quote from: TheWalrus on May 03, 2013, 03:36 AM
On this novella of a topic, everyone using a script like this should be hunted down and caned.  Except Anubis, he already has had 10 years of backlash under his belt. 

Anubis is the anti script.

Now he is, but I gave him about a full year of shit back in the day for using a script.  After that we became buddies    At least he finally came clean with it, most people have to get caught in the act first.  You know who you are.  Hell, Anubis got a hell of a lot more shit for cheating back then than people get now.

Quote from: Ryan on May 02, 2013, 11:12 PM
Komo, you will know by reading the posts, regardless of my response that a script that does stuff for you removes skill.

The only thing I will accept it removes, is the fact that MI provided, "taking finger off space" is a physical action, now, if that can even be considered "a skill/skillset" it would amount to a tiny % of skill involved in all roping(imo less than 2% but perfect timing & best moves possible would become even more important, and would overlap this...), even more so, letting go of something, can hardly be called a skill can it? Learning FR is a skill, learning power spikes, reverse shadows etc, the timing of smooth roping, using the right move at the right time, THOSE are skills, the skills I am talking about.

I am looking at it in an equal way, if it's available to everyone, ANYONE can learn how to FR if they have passion and can put the time in. This script doesn't make anybodys hands faster or slower, it does not make their reactions faster, or help their common sense to do the right thing at the right time.

Spamming 20 keys won't do anything, unless you know how to do it right, even the fastest possible human reaction, still needs precise timing in this case... How certain people don't understand this is beyond me lol, it's simple to understand, very very very simple.

I would see great ropers become better with this script, they would be competing at an even harder level of skill/timing.

I will never stop posting to this thread as long as people keep posting back trying to say I am wrong lol.

If releasing the spacebar isn't a skill, how do you feel about the remapping program I mentioned where you can press two spaces simultaneously, resulting in two rapid space presses?

This is done with a basic remapping program that I haven't named, no special scripting or anything.

Also, those backwards shadows take a lot of skill and timing, unless you've got 2 spacebars or some kind of macro. Your 2% number is bullshit.

Are you talking to me j0e? Do you mean pressing 2 at the EXACT same moment of time but it shoots them 1 after the other at the fastest speed possible by the game? If that's what you mean, I think that is different from having to actually press multiple buttons 1 after the other, for me that's along the lines of using "double tap" macros(pressing 1 time, for 2+ times).

Is that the script we have been talking about? No one mentioned you can press the buttons at the same time and it will shoot 1 after the other at the fastest speed possible by the game...all I seen was you don't have to let go of 1 button to press another(2 spaces pressed down at the same time).Those are 2 completely different things. If that IS this script, then it isn't my fault no one has explained it properly and we've ended up with this massive debate, and yeah, I am completely wrong.

But I have a feeling we are actually talking about just being able to have 2 buttons pressed down at the same time, not 1 action acting as 2 actions.

Am I right in assuming, if you hold 2 fingers together (kinda like when you, you know, with a girl ) and press 2 buttons down at the exact same time (1 action) it treats it as 2 seperate actions?

I would imagine pressing 2 at the exact same time shouldn't work as 2 seperate actions/1 after the other. If that's what this script does, then that's definitely bullshit and should never be allowed, plus whoever created it should f@#! off in horrible pain..

j0e, with or without AHK, the timing would still be exactly the same, so I stick by 2% or less.

Edit: Also, please don't confuse "skill" with "natural talent".

QuoteDo you mean pressing 2 at the EXACT same moment of time but it shoots them 1 after the other at the fastest speed possible by the game?

Yes. Not AHK, a different program... just a normal remapper like Intes Keychange. Just a simple remap, not a script or a macro.

QuoteAm I right in assuming, if you hold 2 fingers together (kinda like when you, you know, with a girl ) and press 2 buttons down at the exact same time (1 action) it treats it as 2 seperate actions?

Lol . Yeah, something like that. If you spam/tap fast enough with enough "spaces" it will actually keep tapping for a second after you stop until they've all been pressed.

QuoteIf that IS this script, then it isn't my fault no one has explained it properly and we've ended up with this massive debate, and yeah, I am completely wrong.

I said, earlier in this thread, "there are some remappers that will accept both inputs, even if the two spaces are pressed at the same time, and input one space right after the other." That's pretty clear- don't blame me for you not understanding it.

Quotej0e, with or without AHK, the timing would still be exactly the same, so I stick by 2% or less.

Using AHK you don't have to move your fingers as much, meaning there are fewer opportunities for you to f@#! up your timing. There is zero chance of you bungling your quick reverse-shadow, because the space doesn't have to be released before your next rope shot fires. That is a change of the timing.

QuoteAlso, please don't confuse "skill" with "natural talent".

This seems like a pretty meaningless sentence. I don't see how I've confused those two things. Can you elaborate?

Quote from: j0e on May 03, 2013, 07:01 AMI said, earlier in this thread, "there are some remappers that will accept both inputs, even if the two spaces are pressed at the same time, and input one space right after the other." That's pretty clear- don't blame me for you not understanding it.

Yeah well then it's all good, your thing isn't what I was arguing about *phew*, I probably did read that but forgot about it because it wasn't part of the thing I was happy to become legal, sorry

Quote from: j0e on May 03, 2013, 07:01 AMUsing AHK you don't have to move your fingers as much, meaning there are fewer opportunities for you to f@#! up your timing. There is zero chance of you bungling your quick reverse-shadow, because the space doesn't have to be released before your next rope shot fires. That is a change of the timing.

1st off, this depends on the kind of equipment you have, also, different people will see this differently, I for one don't see how you don't have to move your fingers as much, I am pretty sure it would require the same effort (as much as your body can physically handle lol), especially if you were moving from being a 1 finger tapper, to a FR player, you'd be using more fingers... I'd actually maybe put time into learning FR because this script would make it possible for me, because I can't spare money to buy keyboards with good enough response, I am sure many other players are in my situation as well...

Quote from: j0e on May 03, 2013, 07:01 AMThis seems like a pretty meaningless sentence. I don't see how I've confused those two things. Can you elaborate?

I am not really saying you have confused either, but I just wanted to point out, some people are just born better than others in certain areas... That's natural talent not skill.

I wouldn't call someone with unhumane reflexes as skilled, I would call them talented.

I wonder how many great ropers of the past need to join in this discussion to beat the evil that is Komo delusion.

We've got joe now, anyone got jmo's number?

You seem to be forgetting I fit into that category as well ropa, but more important, like some other people in this topic, your biggest flaw right now is thinking that being in the majority means being correct.

Do you even know what we are arguing about? I'll be surprised if you can even answer that, since you seem to just be a sheep.

Finally I am having a proper debate with j0e, and yet again, mindless drones like you come in trying to insult without any input into the actual conversation.


Just to make it clear, yet again, my main concern is when free said:

Quote from: Free on May 01, 2013, 06:16 AM

Quote from: Komito on April 30, 2013, 08:37 PM
Lol, funny, but you still need skill and good timing, obviously, dunno why u guys being so dumb but whatever lol.

The thing is, you need less skill and less good timing if you allow script like that.

Let's start all over if we need to, WHY do you agree to this statement by free?


Having hands that can move faster than others is NOT a skill, it's a talent:


Skill:

1.
the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2.
competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3.
a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience: the skill of cabinetmaking.



Talent:

1.
a special natural ability or aptitude: eg. a talent for drawing.
2.
a capacity for achievement or success; ability: young men of talent.
3.
a talented person: The cast includes many of the theater's major talents.
4.
a group of persons with special ability: an exhibition of watercolors by the local talent.




The thing you guys are saying I am wrong about, more specifically the thing ropa accused me of taking 4 pages to figure out is using AHK requires less skill, when in fact, you mean less talent. So therefor you are all wrong, even if it's just because you used the wrong word, and the above is my proof. If you want to argue that it requires less talent, and it makes the game look/feel less natural, fair enough, I agree with that, but skill, nope, you are VERY wrong.

It doesn't matter how much you practise, how much time and effort you put into it, if you don't have the natural talent of having ridiculously fast fingers, you will get nowhere.

If it was a skill, anyone could be the best at it, with time/effort & passion.



The ONLY thing I was literally proven wrong about in this thread was when I said to MI "Macros are completely different, you aren't physically pressing anything(physically doing the work yourself) if you do that" which I was basically saying the AHK 2-space thing still requires all the work, which he then made me realise releasing the spacebar is still a physical action.

But as I have just made clear, this doesn't even attribute to skill, but rather talent.


Take the 2 fastest & most skilled "FR" players, or even people who can just twitch really really fast like Mablak, make them play with this AHK script, they aren't going to start slacking off, or being lazy, to be just as good as they were without the script, they would/should put just as much effort/speed/timing/experience/thought/whatever into their roping as they did before, if not more, and this would result in both players achieving a higher standard of roping, it might not be "natural" but it sure reaches the goals of these schemes better, and if all players had this, they would all need to work harder to compete, making roping HARDER to learn if AHK was legal & popular/common.


If you are not going to read my post VERY CAREFULLY and reply with a calm, civilized debate, try and prove me wrong or something, then your opinion doesn't even count, make the effort, or your posts will be regarded as pointless and useless, either that or you are just too lazy, but at least admit it lol.

*may be few typos, cba checking...*