We could just wait until option 3 wins

Quote from: Ryan on May 17, 2015, 12:20 AM
We could just wait until option 3 wins

Obviously i'd like that however I could say the same thing about you trying to quit while you're ahead

We all have to be fair here, if this is taken seriously I will happily accept any option

Quote from: Ryan on May 15, 2015, 12:37 PM
WL's example is what I was familiar with (which makes sense given that it was my main experience of ropers) where it says if crates do not fall due to sudden death, hit both walls.

Under that premise, any crates lying there are up for grabs but you must bit both walls regardless. Apart from the odd first sentence, that is option 1.

I have to admit though, I didn't know the rules had changed - would be interesting to see what cl2k said.

ryan, the WL rule says exactly what we all know..  "if cr8s dont fall due to sudden death, then you w2w" we all know that... but what we are discussing is what to do if there is a crate still available after sudden death starts.

just like senator said

QuoteThe WL rule may just assume the map is empty of crates, it doesn't state clearly what happens if a crate is available

anyway... the poll has a 1 vote difference, should be a blow out one way or the other, and if not MI would step and and make a final decision..

i think option 3 is the best, because it will cause less confusion for everyone, and less complaints like someone has mentioned... and that is not an opinion, that is a fact.

the people who like option 1 are basing it off opinions and personal preference, which is fine if thats how some people want to vote, but i would encourage people to keep in mind that the main purpose of making the rules more clear, is to eliminate a lot of unnecessary  complaints.

edit: Komo, to answer your question, if we have the right to change the rules, i believe senator now has the ability to do that  (seems he changed the "block" rule, and the "glitch" rule.  so, i assume he hes got the powa!

oh and rU, you think this debate is getting boring now?? do your old school spanish buddies who want to maintain their anonymity think its boring too? hahha i cant get enough of that joke u crack me up dude.

The people who are voting for 3 are basing it on opinion too - it is the whole point of a vote.

If there were any facts involved, we wouldn't be voting; and if we were, it wouldn't be this close.

Quote from: avirex on May 17, 2015, 03:35 AM
the people who like option 1 are basing it off opinions and personal preference, which is fine if thats how some people want to vote, but i would encourage people to keep in mind that the main purpose of making the rules more clear, is to eliminate a lot of unnecessary  complaints.

How isnt it clear that you gotta wall to wall once the cr8s stop dropping? The rule couldn't be clearer,  it's been explained thousand times.  How would that cause complaints?  The only one who made a big fuss out of it was you, as you took every little loophole in order to manage to attack in a roper match. Dont pretend to be a fool avi in order for your own benefits. You really know what's the real rule: which is option #1. Surprised though you only got 6 buddies to vote for you lol.

@Ryan & Komito, WACL, Cl2k and FB don't state anything about SD/w2w (the most recent rule sites are not archived, though. AL rules site not archived either).

Quote from: rU` on May 17, 2015, 09:32 AM
How isnt it clear that you gotta wall to wall once the cr8s stop dropping? The rule couldn't be clearer,  it's been explained thousand times.  How would that cause complaints?

"How would that cause complaints?" Easily. We have it in black and white that XTC league used option 2. So if we go with option 1, people who are familiar with the XTC rule may break the rule unintentionally. Just like Ryan wasn't aware of the XTC rule.

"You really know what's the real rule: which is option #1" Currently you are allowed to do CBA during SD (see MI's post in that complaint thread), which means option 2 or 3

Wtf, are you preparing yourselves for a lawyer career? You are discussing about a thing that may have never caused any trouble at all. I have played about 500 roper games but i don't remember that such a thing caused any misunderstanding. Because if there is a crate then go for it.. so easy

Quote from: Ryan on May 17, 2015, 08:24 AMIf there were any facts involved, we wouldn't be voting; and if we were, it wouldn't be this close.

You want facts, ok then:

WACL, Cl2k and FB as we now know did not have a rule stating what to do in this situation. (Fact)

In WL, you must w2w as soon as SD has began. (Fact)

XTC and TuS, CBA takes priority over w2w in SD if there are crates left. (Fact)

Those are all the main Leagues we've had for WA, there are 2 Leagues stating CBA takes priority, and only 1 stating w2w takes priority. (Fact)

WACL and Cl2k, being the 2 oldest Leagues that were used when WA began, didn't have a rule about this situation, players were left to make this decision for themselves, which means Ryan and rU is wrong about it "always being w2w" and myself and avirex are wrong about it "always being CBA".  (Fact)

So if you are to vote based on facts and history, the logical choice would be option 2.  (Fact)

However the most optimum choice would be option 3, no one would ever break the rule in a panic because either way is correct. (Theory)

All those "facts" tell us nothing about what the rules should be.

Those facts tell nothing indeed. Xtc was kinda a joke too. Tus was born out of the chaos from xtc. Don't pick it as an example. That league didn't even last for long. People didn't have time enough to get familiar with it. Bet you most players here didn't even play that league. I would take FB and WL as better examples.

WL: "If no crate falls: just attack. If no more crates fall because it's sudden death: touch both walls before attacking." = option 1 (except we would do w2w if no crate falls before SD)

komo, WL does not state to w2w when SD starts.... dont say this was a fact, its not true...

WL states if no more crates fall because its sudden death, then you touch both walls... it does NOT say what to do in the situation that a cr8 was left on the map when SD starts.

have we all got lost so deep into who is right, and who is wrong that we forgot what we are even debating?

we are discussing what to do in the situation that a cr8 is left behind when SD starts... we all know to CBA before SD, and we all know to w2w after cr8s stop falling.... but what we need to make clear is what to do when a cr8 is left behind and SD starts.


ryan i said

Quotei think option 3 is the best, because it will cause less confusion for everyone, and less complaints like someone has mentioned... and that is not an opinion, that is a fact.

maybe the bit where i said "i think option 3 is the best" made your head spin.. let me clarify this for you... that one statement IS an opinion, my expressing what i think is best IS an opinion.

Quotebecause it will cause less confusion for everyone, and less complaints

that is the fact.

nobody can dispute that... NO ONE.

if there is cr8 grab them b4 attack, if sudden death starts and there is cr8s, you get a choice.... if there are no cr8s, you w2w.... THAT LEAVES NO ROOM FOR MISSUNDERSTANDING, OR COMPLAINTS.

the current mods now need to step in, and decide which rule should be implemented, and then we leave it at that.

because its pretty clear the vote is not working out, it should be blow out decision, not a 3 vote lead with a very minimal amount of votes to begin with..


rU: everything you say has been humorous, you keep saying that i did something on purpose, or i know the rules, im just trying to change then to fit my needs... have you read anything in this thread dude?? majority of past leagues all said CBA is KING... even w2dinfo said CBA is KING... MonkeyIsland too said, CBA is KING...

but here you are with xta means nothing, my old school spanish friends didnt even play xtc, they never even heard of xtc, i e-mailed them, and they told me xtc did not mean anything to them!

or

QuoteHow isnt it clear that you gotta wall to wall once the cr8s stop dropping? The rule couldn't be clearer,  it's been explained thousand times.  How would that cause complaints?  The only one who made a big fuss out of it was you, as you took every little loophole in order to manage to attack in a roper match. Dont pretend to be a fool avi in order for your own benefits. You really know what's the real rule: which is option #1. Surprised though you only got 6 buddies to vote for you lol.

your a clown... go back and read the thread.

before people come here yelling about how option 1 is leading the poll, and if option 3 was leading, the poll would have been closed on the first day, or whatever else was said...

let me make something clear, i think some people are failing to remember.

when we are updating the rules, we are taking the rules, and making them more clear, and leaving little to no room to miss-interprate them, keep in mind we are basing off the current TUS rules, we are just trying to eliminate any loop-holes.

Senator i believe has the power to do this-

However, if he wants to change rules completely, i believe this has to go through the big boss first (MI) and he should/would get the final decision.

current TUS rules (as the recent complaint showed) that cba is the standard, regardless if it is sudden death or not... this means, if a crate is left behind you must collect that crate...

option 3 is trying to be fair to everyone, and give options, but regardless, its still a rule change(not just making the current TUS rule more clear), and there for MI needs to accept it.

option 1 as well is a complete rule change, and MI needs to accept it.

thats why i said

Quotethe current mods now need to step in, and decide which rule should be implemented, and then we leave it at that.

i just wanted to make that very clear, before i had someone bitching at me "well if option 3 was leading in the poll......"

Whichever option is implemented, as long as it is well written there will be no room for miss-understanding.

well, you got me there... i cant argue that.


but, not everybody is going to read every rule, for every scheme...  we want to make the rule well written, so there is no miss-understanding, while still trying to keep them nice and simple.

does not get any more simple then having the option of what to do, either CBA or w2w, when your presented with an uncommon situation.

anyways, we can all go back and forth for ever, and seems like that is just what we will do if MI does not step in the first couple pages of the debate was good, and healthy.. but now its just becoming monotonous. there is no one side that is completely dominating the votes, especially if you take into consideration that main people following this thread have all agreed on one thing.. option 2 really is not fair... so if you counted option 2: you MUST collect cr8, as option 3 votes, there is no clear 'winner' of this poll..

i think at this point its best we just let MI come here and make a final decision, so we can move on to other topics, i already have our next debate in mind


penalties/skips: what exactly is allowed, and whats not allowed... ie: can you get your cr8?? can you knock worms?? can you knock worms for FD? can you knock worms into a pile, or into a barrel? can you do anything you want as long as you do not attack?? or must you just skip??

the current TUS rules (according to a recent complaint) says that you can do knocks, you can deal FD damage, you can pile worms, you can knock  worms to barrels on your skip turn, but you can not attack... i dont think that is fair, and i think we need to discuss it... but lets get a final answer on this, so we can move on.

Quote from: Ryan on May 17, 2015, 11:17 AM
All those "facts" tell us nothing about what the rules should be.

Who said the facts determine what the rule should be? Having facts help to make a choice though.

Quote from: Ryan on May 17, 2015, 08:24 AMIf there were any facts involved, we wouldn't be voting; and if we were, it wouldn't be this close.

There are facts.

Notice the part I underlined? I assume you would like facts to be in favour that history shows w2w takes priority over CBA when actually the facts favour against you, if you were 100% aware that for the majority of time CBA was favoured, would you still have the same opinion? As it seems you would pick the rule you are used to most, the one you believed for so long.

Quote from: rU` on May 17, 2015, 09:32 AMHow isnt it clear that you gotta wall to wall once the cr8s stop dropping? The rule couldn't be clearer,  it's been explained thousand times.  How would that cause complaints?

We've already explained this to you several times with facts and logic, if you choose to ignore what we say then you will have to live on in the darkess of this knowledge.

Quote from: rU` on May 17, 2015, 11:35 AM
Those facts tell nothing indeed. Xtc was kinda a joke too. Tus was born out of the chaos from xtc. Don't pick it as an example. That league didn't even last for long. People didn't have time enough to get familiar with it. Bet you most players here didn't even play that league. I would take FB and WL as better examples.

The facts tell nothing? Are you 100% sure? Would you bet your life on that?

The facts tell us that we were all wrong about the SD rule in early Leagues of WA. (This is another fact btw )

The facts tell us that official rules up until now have favoured the CBA rule. (Which makes sense as CBA is the most sacred rule of Roper)

Based on the words you used to describe your opinion and I quote:

Quote from: rU`You guys question things that have been clear for more than a decade. When the gong sounds,  you have to w2w no matter how many crates there are in the map lol. You do wall to wall, if there is even a gift of health around, good for you.

Quote from: rU`I know Komo,  makes sense but Roper rules need to be cleared up then, as people seem to forget what they always been like (or am I the only one who thinks like this?) , maybe in order to find a loophole to their advantage.  Once sudden death is on, wall to wall should take precedence over cba.

Quote from: rU`alright I've spoken to some wormers, retired and not retired. Things happens to be like this:

Since some time ago, CBA took precedence over w2w if sudden death comes and there are still crates around.

Retired wormers told me that W2W always took precedence over cba, as they aren't aware of what's been happening in the past years.

Quote from: rU` on May 13, 2015, 11:13 AM
The rules always were that you have to touch both walls, once there's no more crate spawns.

You, also, favour the option you thought was true to history, and if your vote was dependant on this, then I imagine you would vote for option 2.

Also, your opinion regarding what examples to use are not worthy enough, you do not get to decide what is good and what is bad, I also didn't have much love for XTC however it was still one of WAs main Leagues for a while and the best players at the time participated, that alone is enough reason to use it as an example, facts are facts regardless of opinion.

Quote from: avirex on May 17, 2015, 12:41 PM
WL: "If no crate falls: just attack. If no more crates fall because it's sudden death: touch both walls before attacking." = option 1 (except we would do w2w if no crate falls before SD)

komo, WL does not state to w2w when SD starts.... dont say this was a fact, its not true...

WL states if no more crates fall because its sudden death, then you touch both walls... it does NOT say what to do in the situation that a cr8 was left on the map when SD starts.

Actually it does, but still this rule is very stupid and I will explain why:

QuoteIf no more crates fall because it's sudden death: touch both walls before attacking.

This means a crate must fall for CBA to be implemented.

QuoteIf no crate falls: just attack.

This is the stupid part, this means the turn before SD, where there is no crate and SD hasn't officially been declared, you can attack however you wish, w2w isn't required here.