Quote from: WTF-8 on February 01, 2019, 12:13 AM

Quote from: basically everybodywhen

Quote from: CyberShadow on December 30, 2017, 03:41 PMWell, it's settled. Update delayed until December 31, 2022. Pack it up, boys! I'm sure all 7 people still playing W:A by then will find the wait worthwhile.

Mr Why Tits Flourishes (WTF), could you be a good lad and provide the link of the topic & post that was made by CyberShadow?

So far based on my own analyzes of supposedly post by CyberShadow(Which I will assume is true atm), seems to contain a flavor of sarcasm. Still, this all leaves myself into more confusion. What is the purpose of this VERY topic that DeadCode brought to our attention? He even was on discord worm group imminent after his initial posting of this topic, answering people about this update and more. So with this type of initiation, it is only to assume that an update is on the horizon, presumable the year the sneak peak update was released.
It was 2 years ago CyberShadow revealed the release date of 3.8, now there's 3 more year left, and now developers decided to shed some light that the update is coming. Is this supposed to be some kind of a road map?

I am sorry, I just wish there could be more transparency. Then again, perhaps e.g DeadCode would feel forced to work harder if he actually did reveal an actual release date. I know maybe I would.

Quote from: Kradie on February 01, 2019, 02:45 PM
Mr Why Tits Flourishes (WTF), could you be a good lad and provide the link of the topic & post that was made by CyberShadow?

I'm not WTF but you could just click on the "Quote by.." text to jump to the quote source. Anyway, here you go:
https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/should-they-release-worms-armageddon-v3-8-on-dec-31st-even-if-its-unfinished-31598/msg265562/#msg265562

Quote from: fraees on February 01, 2019, 04:39 PM

Quote from: Kradie on February 01, 2019, 02:45 PM
Mr Why Tits Flourishes (WTF), could you be a good lad and provide the link of the topic & post that was made by CyberShadow?

I'm not WTF but you could just click on the "Quote by.." text to jump to the quote source. Anyway, here you go:
https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/should-they-release-worms-armageddon-v3-8-on-dec-31st-even-if-its-unfinished-31598/msg265562/#msg265562

I just realized, ah damn it's on me. Thank you though.

I'm not any more entitled than any other member on this community, and I hope that DC/CS don't take me in the wrong way, I'm only talking off my little not-so-broad experience... I'm a beginner game developer, with some mates we've released a couple free fangames (actually ROMhacks but the same conditions in law/community/dev apply here), and I've already faced all sorts of ups and downs.
I'm not the best programmer either, I'm not as good as others for the logic work though I do best on visual sequences and effects, but on every single project we have released so far, no matter how complex or simple, no matter our focus, "skill", or timeline (even if infinite) to develop & test every feature, even if we total 5 programmers in the team with the best possible organization, no matter if we actually do a "better" job than the original creators... we WILL always get at least 1 bug or oddity, that WILL be found by 1 player within 1 month of release if not less! Under whatever condition, the "perfect" program is just inhuman!

QuoteI do W:A development as a labor of love. j0e hit the nail on the head saying "Maybe he'd lose his ambition to continue if he knowingly left imperfections that he knew he could easily fix." I'm in this for the long haul; I want to make W:A as good as it can be.

I like that sentiment. Personally, I've never been a fan of deadlines. Here's an example: You're working in a game that's very "important" to your public AND yourself too, you got an emotional attachment to the project, and is so technically advanced it plays vfx thought impossible. You're 7 days away from deadline, the ending sequence still has to be manually written (can't just play a video because HW limits), AND the artist doesn't have all sprites ready yet! Which means you have to improvise something to fill the gap; it's your responsability now, and you don't want the ending to suck nor screw it up, or you'll doom all your previous work to a safe failure. By that point, you have no brain to ensure the program is "logically right" nor optimized enough, or you'll have no time to ensure everything actually displays right on screen let alone have it ready on time.

For this, a game on its first public release is hardly ever "finished" at least according to original game plan; there's always that crude moment the team says "we have no time to develop new playable features, let's just finish/make the remaining menus or bonus levels, fix bugs, polish what we have now". Or that's what seems to be done for Sonic 2 and Mania (with its randomly missing transition cutscenes on first releases (!)).

---
HOWEVER, not having a deadline isn't always that good either! But I hope it's not the case for you or anyone else. Because when there's not it's easy to get "lazier" with the time, get 1/3 of game, and then lose any will/energy to keep going. I don't know why that happens to me, but it's very difficult to avoid unless it's a "short & simple" project or there was a constant emotional feedback. The only... "mental workaround" of sorts I've found so far, is to self-impose imaginary deadlines, just to stay awake. This way I'll get the adrenaline, an artificial emotional feedback to help me for the last weeks.
I remember that when I adopted this kind of workflow, I had a very bad look from another mate who does better than me on the coding "logic". After that, I tried to push myself to write logic on-par to her level, but this only led me to an "art block" of sorts and I gave up. I'm not nearly as good as her on it, but in this way I've managed to do a lot more "visible" work, even if more messy than before. For some reason I find myself with more time and mood to experiment new effects than ever before. Overall, I'm faster and more productive, even though I'm not that intelligent in comparison. The sad truth is, as long as the game program works and does it well, average player simply doesn't care unless there's a bug that's too awkward, or worsens/cheats the gameplay. If the worst programmer from the planet done a game that doesn't look buggy to the player (even if it's avoided with many kludges and such) nor slowdowns (too much), people will actually like it.
Within retro community, most people believe that the Megadrive/Genesis games made by japanese teams "push" the video hardware more than the rest, however if you compare the code from Red Zone against Sonic 3 & Knuckles, you'll see the former is infinitely better done.

The point is, I understand the perfectionism, I don't like mediocrity either, but stopping to patiently fix every single detail feels like an impossible goal, IMHO. Because nobody is perfect. And if I can't ever release a bug-free game, at least I'd try to keep things fun and fair, no?

If you have a different point of view, please let me know! I'm always eager to learn more

lolicon-guy: I think you underestimate your abilities, and I can relate about perfectionism/motivation part. 

I think deadlines shouldn't create any promise, or they shouldn't be called like that. I'd prefer "milestone" term as it clearly defines what has to be done, no matter how much time involved to implement a feature.

When I want to create a deadline, it's only because motivation to continue plummets due to a bad reason. In these cases I remind myself of the very first reason why I'm doing something in the first place.

Lets face it, not all projects are going to be finished, so it's natural to freak out about things like that. But hey, skills don't die, so nothing is wasted.

come on say something
at least say its cancelled and will never come out so we dont have to wait

I'm hoping the delay is for actual improvements, rather than the stated need to reorganize/regroup the changelog entries. Either way I understand the desire not to push a flawed release .. keep up the good work guys!

So when is the patch coming out? It's now the first of March. I mainly want to know because every time I try logging into WormNET lately it's totally dead... nothing but idlers on snoopers and maybe a couple of random nobodies here and there, but a lot of the time there is literally nobody (present) in #AG. I'd like to start playing some W:A again but without activity I don't feel like wasting my time. Please don't misunderstand this as me feeling entitled to anything, because that's not it at all.

Quote from: skunk3 on March 01, 2019, 01:43 PM
So when is the patch coming out? It's now the first of March. I mainly want to know because every time I try logging into WormNET lately it's totally dead... nothing but idlers on snoopers and maybe a couple of random nobodies here and there, but a lot of the time there is literally nobody (present) in #AG. I'd like to start playing some W:A again but without activity I don't feel like wasting my time. Please don't misunderstand this as me feeling entitled to anything, because that's not it at all.

just play offline games against yourself (preferably 3 or 4 teams), it's more fun than you think

Quote from: skunk3 on March 01, 2019, 01:43 PM
So when is the patch coming out? It's now the first of March. I mainly want to know because every time I try logging into WormNET lately it's totally dead... nothing but idlers on snoopers and maybe a couple of random nobodies here and there, but a lot of the time there is literally nobody (present) in #AG. I'd like to start playing some W:A again but without activity I don't feel like wasting my time. Please don't misunderstand this as me feeling entitled to anything, because that's not it at all.

I continuously receive activity through my Zar games. From both new and established players, both are frequent and recurring players of my games. So no, WA is clearly not dead at all. Though I do admit, there are times where I have to wait more than five minutes. Then again, it all depends on time of the day.

Quote from: skunk3 on March 01, 2019, 01:43 PM
So when is the patch coming out? It's now the first of March. I mainly want to know because every time I try logging into WormNET lately it's totally dead... nothing but idlers on snoopers and maybe a couple of random nobodies here and there, but a lot of the time there is literally nobody (present) in #AG. I'd like to start playing some W:A again but without activity I don't feel like wasting my time. Please don't misunderstand this as me feeling entitled to anything, because that's not it at all.

It should be out before summer, hopefully. It's been over FIVE years since the last update, and STILL nothing.

Any news/tidbits/rumours?

I think main goal atm is to get on more stable server. Dunno how much you're active j0e, but every 2-3 games, WormNET just dies for everyone that hosted via hb or wormnat2. I don't see 3.8 being released in these circumstances.

Quote from: Sensei on March 24, 2019, 05:47 PM
I think main goal atm is to get on more stable server. Dunno how much you're active j0e, but every 2-3 games, WormNET just dies for everyone that hosted via hb or wormnat2. I don't see 3.8 being released in these circumstances.

You are correct in that nearly all of my time lately has been spent in relation to setting up the new server. However, I'd like to add to that, that server-related matters are solely my responsibility, and, as far as I understand, and excluding doing anything disagreeable, there is nothing that I can do to expedite the next update's release.

CyberShadow just to let you know in case you dont know, we all love you ae cos kings!

ty buddy for all u did and do to us.