Yo, since I understand that a variety of maps is important I think the scheme must be changed, I am currently working on a solution and I came up with some ideas, what I removed out of the scheme were cr8s. That instantly means no cr8 luck anymore.

- Raised the HP to 250 (can be more if games take too long/are too fast over)
- Turn timer still set to 15 (can be adjusted)

The Problem was that no cr8s mean no reason to rope around so I had to get a reason for people to rope around the map. So I came up with a checkpoint like system. Roper maps ALWAYS have 2 islands, that is a fact and I know of no map that has just 1 island (except some w2 rope maps) or 3 islands.

One checkpoint is always the left wall/right wall it depends where YOUR worm stands.

Example:

You hide on the left island, you have to go for the right wall.

This system is not that interesting, you don't have to rope around that much like you do with cr8s. So I thought about adding another checkpoint that the person who picked roper can decide (it is his pick, so the one picking should have the freedom of choice). It worked on every map, on some maps you have to make some space but basically you go into the editor and just make a little square (squares are easier to spike/shadow at than just a huge ball), in the lower middle part. So now we have 2 checkpoints. The Middle checkpoint doesn't need to be touched, but you need to connect the rope to it, this will reduce arguments if a player touched the part or not. (Everyone can see if the rope was connected to the square or not)

The cr8 before attack gets replaced by: Checkpoints before attack. It's still CBA

Lets get back to the Example.


Example:

You hide on the left island, you have to go for the right wall. After that you connect to the square in the middle part, THEN you are allowed to attack.

The order 1st square or 1st wall is not given. You can decide yourself if you go for the middle checkpoint 1st or go with the wall checkpoint 1st.

Ok now people could say: What if a player picks a map that is so hard the lower skilled player will just wait for the better playing roper to make a mistake. This will be easily countered with a tiny rule: If you don't reach both checkpoints in your turn, you will have to SKIP your turn. This will give the other player the opportunity to safely rope to the 2 checkpoints and then hide top map. The other player will have to skip and next turn gets an easy attack.

It is not a violation of the rules to shoot your weapon and after wards go to the checkpoints. Just don't shoot your opponent. It's still CBA. (Checkpoint before attack)

P.S.: It's still in development, but the few tests I did offline I never ever lost because of luck. It is pure skill. The better roper will always win this game. If you find flaws please tell me. Or if you have a better idea to remove cr8 luck tell me.

In Elite we have removed cr8s, because they dropped at random places and could decide a game. It's time to do the same in Roper!

Here are 3 replays.

As you can see it works on every map. Even the evil ones didn't take ages or something, the open ones weren't too easy. For every kind of roper the same difficult.

DarK mentioned that he misses cr8s. I thought about adding 1-5HP cr8s that drop everyturn but you DONTHAVE to collect them. Main goal are the 2 checkpoints.

Here's a replay with cr8s. The main goal are still the checkpoints. Even if someone hides on top with a huge lead he still has to show roping skills. And that's what Roper is about, consistent roping over a long time with good use of weapons.

Quote from: Anubis on August 22, 2010, 06:24 AMOk now people could say: What if a player picks a map that is so hard the lower skilled player will just wait for the better playing roper to make a mistake. This will be easily countered with a tiny rule: If you don't reach both checkpoints in your turn, you will have to SKIP your turn. This will give the other player the opportunity to safely rope to the 2 checkpoints and then hide top map. The other player will have to skip and next turn gets an easy attack.

My only problem with this scheme modification is this part, as I believe there is a difference between a player who cheaply waits for the opponent to fall and doesn't even try to rope and between a player who does rope, but fall in the middle and fails to touch both the wall and stick the rope to the checkpoint.

I think for someone who actually falls that is too harsh, why would someone get a penalty for falling? And again, it is hard to draw the line between trying and not trying, saying if it's intentional slow roping or that's what the player can do.

Other than that, I kinda like it, don't put crates in it now once you created the scheme by the idea of removing it!

The cr8 that I put in one of the replays were just for DarK, it was just for his love to cr8s.

The cool thing about the checkpoints are: They are always doable to do and make an attack. And because there is no cr8s where you stack HP sooner or later you will make your opponent move because when you lead the game by lets say 70 HP you can hide at a less easier position and make your attacks one after another easier. The opponent can't just wait for mistakes. Even 10 HP by a zooka each turn will make your opponent move or he/she will loose.

Btw: If you fall before you got to the checkpoints you don't have to take a penalty.

Okay, now two things - what about hiding in the middle? That would mean a lot less effort in that turn. Would that be considered illegal or... ?

Other thing is the start of the game. The first player has an obvious advantage by not having to rope too much, just start in the middle and the starting player then might have like 5 seconds to perform an attack and then he can hide easily, the other player will only have around 2 seconds to attack (with a probably reckless roping).

I have changed retreat time to 5 seconds, it reduced the intentional slow roping to wait for the opponent to make a mistake.

Hiding in the middle is ok, you will be more vulnerable for attacks too.

I am thinking of removing Falldamage... it would encourage more speedy roping. Maybe adjust attack power of weapons so matches last longer.

That is a really good idea removing fall damage +1 for you

Just made a first test without fd. It's so much better!
It also increased the # of useful hides. Hides which sucked because of easy fd no longer existed.

wait.. i have an idea, lets just all rope on gundam... i think thats so much better, cuz u can get all cr8s, and even do power spikes

Quote from: Anubis on August 22, 2010, 06:24 AMI know of no map that has just 1 island (except some w2 rope maps) or 3 islands.

I did many.

Anyway, my problem with your scheme is that it destroys all of the roper interest:
As crates were randomly dropped, it made the checkpoint randomly placed.
But there, you just made 2 static checkpoints, which looks more like a w2w on a roper map.

Quote from: avirex on August 22, 2010, 12:48 PM
wait.. i have an idea, lets just all rope on gundam... i think thats so much better, cuz u can get all cr8s, and even do power spikes

You know this is not what we are talking about, so don't act like a kid, the sarcasm in this case is just pathetic...

If you don't like our ideas fair enough, say something sensible, or don't say anything...

Yeah avi, a lot of people aren't exactly happy with the current Roper scheme.. And still a lot of people aren't happy with your w2rope scheme either. Something has to be done obviously, and how the hell are we gonna get to the best Roper scheme if we don't do brainstorming like you and Anubis did? He never said it's the perfect scheme (unlike you), how about giving constructive criticism?

Quote from: Abnaxus on August 22, 2010, 08:17 PM

Quote from: Anubis on August 22, 2010, 06:24 AMI know of no map that has just 1 island (except some w2 rope maps) or 3 islands.

I did many.

Anyway, my problem with your scheme is that it destroys all of the roper interest:
As crates were randomly dropped, it made the checkpoint randomly placed.
But there, you just made 2 static checkpoints, which looks more like a w2w on a roper map.

Yeah I get what you mean, but how can we get rid of randomness (which means luck) when people think random cr8s are part of the scheme, I mean the cr8s give different checkpoints to a roper match, but they also deliver luck! We can't possibly make a scheme without luck where random events are part of the scheme. If you look at other schemes the most luck happens because of unpredictable random events which have a huge impact. Team17, Ropers, Shoppers. BnG, Elite and RR have none to minimum random events. BnG and Elite have wind as a luck factor, but they are not that often critical as there are different options to do the same, or even do better attacks that are not affected by wind. cr8 drops are always critical to the game as they are build around these schemes. So the vital part of these schemes is, more or less, luck.

The only solution so far that I have thought of by keeping the current W:A Roper rules are simplified/pre-made maps where the best ropers can do any cr8 + attack.

Another thing that I brainstormed were the motivation in ropers. Currently with the official W:A Roper scheme the motivation is always the rule Crate Before Attack. But there are situations in a W:A Roper scheme where this rule is counterproductive. For example a worm with 50 HP left and a Worm with 200HP left. The Worm with 200 HP should just attack the other worm, instead he has to collect a cr8 even though the player doesn't need any extra HP . This lead me to w2 ropers where you can, in such situations, just shoot your opponent.

In my opinion the roper scheme is one of the most unfair schemes currently being used. It always has been but noone really cared that much, me included. The scheme is unbalanced.

First of all I think the 2 Islands we rope on should be mirrored, there shouldn't be an advantage when you hide left island or right island. Most BnG Maps are built to have even hides on both sides. There used to be a time where this wasn't the case.

Another thing is that each turn should, in theory, have the same difficult, except for the price of shelter for attacks. For example top hiding should be rewarded with easier turns but on the other side you should receive more damage.

nobody brainstormed in my post, i was just ripped up.. told how "classis ropers should not be changed" and changing the scheme is silly, we should just play on maps like we did 28 years ago...   

but sure, now we all want to brainstorm, im in...


i do not agree with this scheme, like somone said.. it sounds too much like a wxw, on a roper map... but, maybe we can brainstorm somthing else, sure