Quote from: Anubis on August 23, 2010, 08:38 AM

Quote from: Abnaxus on August 22, 2010, 08:17 PM

Quote from: Anubis on August 22, 2010, 06:24 AMI know of no map that has just 1 island (except some w2 rope maps) or 3 islands.

I did many.

Anyway, my problem with your scheme is that it destroys all of the roper interest:
As crates were randomly dropped, it made the checkpoint randomly placed.
But there, you just made 2 static checkpoints, which looks more like a w2w on a roper map.

Yeah I get what you mean, but how can we get rid of randomness (which means luck) when people think random cr8s are part of the scheme, I mean the cr8s give different checkpoints to a roper match, but they also deliver luck! We can't possibly make a scheme without luck where random events are part of the scheme. If you look at other schemes the most luck happens because of unpredictable random events which have a huge impact. Team17, Ropers, Shoppers. BnG, Elite and RR have none to minimum random events. BnG and Elite have wind as a luck factor, but they are not that often critical as there are different options to do the same, or even do better attacks that are not affected by wind. cr8 drops are always critical to the game as they are build around these schemes. So the vital part of these schemes is, more or less, luck.

The only solution so far that I have thought of by keeping the current W:A Roper rules are simplified/pre-made maps where the best ropers can do any cr8 + attack.

Another thing that I brainstormed were the motivation in ropers. Currently with the official W:A Roper scheme the motivation is always the rule Crate Before Attack. But there are situations in a W:A Roper scheme where this rule is counterproductive. For example a worm with 50 HP left and a Worm with 200HP left. The Worm with 200 HP should just attack the other worm, instead he has to collect a cr8 even though the player doesn't need any extra HP . This lead me to w2 ropers where you can, in such situations, just shoot your opponent.

In my opinion the roper scheme is one of the most unfair schemes currently being used. It always has been but noone really cared that much, me included. The scheme is unbalanced.

First of all I think the 2 Islands we rope on should be mirrored, there shouldn't be an advantage when you hide left island or right island. Most BnG Maps are built to have even hides on both sides. There used to be a time where this wasn't the case.

Another thing is that each turn should, in theory, have the same difficult, except for the price of shelter for attacks. For example top hiding should be rewarded with easier turns but on the other side you should receive more damage.

i agree with most of this, i dont really care for the mirror map idea... sounds boring...    i really think if you want to do something, we need to eliminate cr8 rules...  its the only way to eliminate *most of the luck*  and the only way to elimnate cr8 rules.. is to alter the scheme a bit, obviously u can not have 10 second retreat because whats the point of getting cr8 first at all? but that just leads back into my idea a bit... so i dont know

So I found the solution about the randomness on the roper scheme.

Let's start:
First of all, the scheme has to drop a crate every 2 turns.
Those crates give simply 0 hp.
Raise a bit the hp of the worms.

So now we set everything, there is the point:
The first crate drops: it's the checkpoint.
The first player must collect the crate, attack, and then go hide.
The second player (who has no crate dropped), must go to the last checkpoint (which is just the last cratepoint) before being able to attack.
Then another crate is dropped.
The first player collect, etc...
And it's all over again.

So both players has the same crates/checkpoints to reach before being able to attack.
This way, the most skilled player will win.

If you understood, what do you think about it ?


PS: I'd like to attach a replay, but I really don't know how to make the scheme drop a crate every 2 turns.
Maybe I could find, but too bored to do this. :roll:

Abnaxus, afaik there is no option to let a crate drop once every x turns. If you set crate probability to 50%, it can still be "crate - crate - no crate - no crate" etc. :/

Use Anubis idea with the checkpoints and no crates, when the game starts each player starts in the middle checkpoint, each player should use their 1st turn as some sort of competition to decide who gets to take the 1st turn, for example who can go wall to wall then back to the middle checkpoint the fastest.

That player should get 1st turn.

What DarK said, but we thought about a new idea. We have even given it a name already. It's called Hit&Rope.

The rules are changed:

- attack before crate. (you don't have to inflict dmg, just shoot a weapon before you are allowed to collect a cr8)
- turntimer is set to 12, retreat time is set to 12.
- if you collect a cr8 before attack you are not allowed to attack.

The idea is, that the better you rope the harder it is for you opponent to hit you.

Me and DarK had a few tests and it is really a real fun scheme, it's a direct duel between 2 ropers. If you rope better the opponent will feel it by having less time to attack you. Good turns will have a real impact on your opponent. the cr8 is not a must have, but usually it's in your favor.

Just see yourself.

Harder maps seem to work better for this scheme.

Quote from: darKz on August 23, 2010, 11:55 AMafaik there is no option to let a crate drop once every x turns.

Let's ask it to Deadcode for the next patch ?

I think it would require that new scheme format which they've been talking about.. But can still ask, yeah.

Anyway I'm pretty positive about Hit&Rope, it's a lot of fun and a direct skill competition.. Feedback welcome.

Look's quite good, i'll have a shot later

Abnax.. Ur idea at first thot sounded great.. But now that i thought about it..not su much.. The person that gets the cr8 first has a huge advantage bcuz then he knows exactly where to hide to make it as diffiuclt as possible to attack... The second play will not have that option of knowing where to hide.. Otherwise i would say it was a great idea... And anubis... I really cant see how 12 second retrat is going to be better.. For me.. The biggest problem in current rope is the 10 second retrat.. But im at work now.. I dont really understand the concept.. When i get home id like to have some games.. Maybe me, u, darkz and shyguy can get together and brainstorm like darkz suggests... I really do think its time to evolve the roping scheme.. If people dont think w2roper is the answer.. Thenlets get together and find out what is... See u when i gret home.. Btw im on celly now.. Just figured out i can access tus forums from it.. Pretty neat

Sure avi, we will have some games and just make a perfect scheme.

Off-Topic: We could just download gundam and play roper there and make it the only legal map for TuS. xD

One question about hit&rope: what if someone attacks, but does not manage to get the crate? What's the penalty? (I suggest dealing fall damage to him/herself next turn, because the opponent will be able to restore his/her lost HP by picking up 2 crates [for example, player1 does 47 mine/nade dmg, but fails to collect the crate (200-153), then player2 does 47 mine/nade dmg, and collects 2x20=40 hp (153-193), then player1 does 47 mine/nade dmg, collects one crate, and does 7 fd to him/herself (166-146), so it's like player1 collected the crate first turn, but done no damage (due to cowing)])
Huh.

There is no penalty, leaving the crate for the opponent is bad enough.

Like Dark said, the only penalty in this scheme is not to deal dmg to a worm if you collect a cr8 before using a weapon. So far there have been no problems with this, there are very uncommon events where a cr8 is in the way of a turn, and usually a skilled roper can get around the cr8.

I am confident enough to say that this scheme is ready for public already. Thinking of hosting a Cup anytime soon to get more feedback.

D: again...
there is roper scheme sense in crates, also like in 15 seconds etc. this is no roper scheme at all. we already have w2roper as 2nd scheme, lets do 3rd! someting like AnuRoper xD.

told ya many times, removing crates its like removing crates from t17 or adding to elite/inter...

u do TOO many modifications... TOO many... if u want replace roper scheme with this, dont do so big chenges...

i said before, that just too big pros scared to death of loosing player that have less skills but more luck.

hard to get far crate? this is not luck. just not enough skills probably. i will show u it again! at 5:40.

P.S. new pol?

Error, you do realize you're talking to Anubis here right?

Edit: Also lol at rant by random guy. xD