League scheme changes

[TheWalrus]

Time to collate all these game threads and other random shit into one thread, and the most popular of which can be lobbied for change.

Non-controversial
(Changes no one seems to disagree with)

Teleport removed from big RR scheme - it serves no purpose

TFL JPR needs phased worms, worms can block tight passages.

TFL Golf needs phased worms, shots can bounce off worms on pads/block shots entirely in some cases.

TFL Bungee needs phased worms, worms can block access to bungee.  Also Antisink?

TFL CTF is a broken scheme, needs rework, it’s maybe the worst/most unbalanced scheme in alround/freeleague.  Turntime is far too long and many standard maps can be won in 2 turns with wind.  ( Stunning that this was even a real scheme )

TFL WfW does not contain all the weapons that are used on many of the maps, needs to be changed.

TFL Boomrace, making the standard SDET+LDET, as most people seem to play this way, single shot seems to be the exception more than the rule.

Controversial

Ongoing BnG scheme discussion can go here, to better excite komo

Proposed:
Lowering turntime
Anti aimlock to start turn
Variable power that continues after full power

Ongoing Big RR scheme discussion

Proposed:
LDET
Rubber
Milliseconds or full second ties.

TUS team17 scheme discussion

The allround league and tus team17 league have different schemes right now, I’m tired of firing the bow and forgetting which scheme I’m playing on, would it make more sense to switch to deadcode scheme for both leagues?  ( current TTL scheme )

If anybody thinks the non controversial parts I posed above ARE controversial, let me know, otherwise will try to get these changed.  All the haphazard scattered conversations need to have some organization, so a clear majority or prevailing opinion can actually enact some changes in the schemes. 

Otherwise everyone is chasing their tails in circles ad infinitum. 

Keep the flaming to a minimum, idiots.

[Kradie]

Question: If a change is made to the league scheme, would this change HB's scheme's version?

[TheWalrus]

Question: If a change is made to the league scheme, would this change HB's scheme's version?

They are separate, some of hostingbuddy schemes are identical to tus schemes, others are different.  this discussion is for tus league schemes only, the ones found here:

https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/?leagues;sort=league;desc

[TheKomodo]

Lower turn time. And anti-lock is the furthest I will go to support.

These are fine because even if I were to be selfish I can still BnG exactly the same as I always have with these.

The reverse power thing though, absolutely NOPE.

I hope you guys can decide not to add that but whatever it'll be quite fun watching you all get even worse at BnG and watching matches go on twice or 3 times as long on average and seeing all the new complaints roll in.

So in that sense it'll give me a good laugh at least 🤣

For Big RR either LDET or rubberworm gets my vote. Honestly not bothered which they are both a massive improvement in my eyes.

Gun to my head though rubberworm because it rewards speed over consistency and that's more fun and exciting for me! It shows who is the fastest and most skilled not just most careful too.

I agree Boom should be SDET.

I'll check the other schemes and get back later.

Sometimes doing the right thing, Isn't always the best thing.

[TheWalrus]

Lower turn time. And anti-lock is the furthest I will go to support.

These are fine because even if I were to be selfish I can still BnG exactly the same as I always have with these.

The reverse power thing though, absolutely NOPE.

I hope you guys can decide not to add that but whatever it'll be quite fun watching you all get even worse at BnG and watching matches go on twice or 3 times as long on average and seeing all the new complaints roll in.

So in that sense it'll give me a good laugh at least 🤣

For Big RR either LDET or rubberworm gets my vote. Honestly not bothered which they are both a massive improvement in my eyes.

Gun to my head though rubberworm because it rewards speed over consistency and that's more fun and exciting for me! It shows who is the fastest and most skilled not just most careful too.

I agree Boom should be SDET.

I'll check the other schemes and get back later.

Sometimes doing the right thing, Isn't always the best thing.

I think if you are going to do antilock in BnG, lower turn time wouldn’t be an issue to me because reaim rule wouldn’t be required.  Variable power could be used for a season and then re-evaluated, most shots aren’t full power shots anyway so I don’t see much changing.

[Sensei]

Boom needs sdet +ldet. Just so we're all on the same wave length. Am I still sleepy, or sdet won't work without ldet in this scheme!?

BnG discussions going in circles for too long now. Whatever anyone said, Komo was there to disagree. Just leave him to turn this scheme like he wants, he probably never gonna play it, but apparently that's less important.

For Big RR wrote what I think im the other thread. Actually asked you something there Walrus, but you never replied.

[TheKomodo]

Yes, LDET & SDET for Boom.

For Big RR wrote what I think im the other thread. Actually asked you something there Walrus, but you never replied.

Ah, karma is fun. 

So what you're saying Sensei, I am the only person who ever disagrees with anything on this website?

Also, I didn't disagree with everything so as usual, you're literally lying. I can prove it easily to everyone else, though it's impossible to prove to you because you don't read anything I say apparently so how would you know what I agree or disagree with anyway lol.

Funny thing is, I've probably agreed with and approved more things than the same 3-4 people who moan about BnG combined!

As usual though, it's only those same people who only see the negative, or think negatively!

Even though TheWalrus and I clash on opinions a lot, Senator as well, and a few others, you notice how we're not at each others throats? We do actually listen to each other and help each other whenever possible. Notice how we don't accuse each other of contributing absolutely nothing to WA lol.

I am absolutely humbled by the amount of support I get from people, they know the truth!

We actually still compliment each other, and help each other, because that's what good people do!

Put it this way Sensei, I will continue to do everything I humanly can to help this community until I die, you can either accept that and get on board, or continue to be negative and toxic to anyone who doesn't agree with you.

We ALL have disagreements, the problem is YOU take it personally and get triggered by it.

[Triad]

Removing Dynamite for Bungee Race and making turns 35 sec is also a non-controversial change.

The battyrope feature should also be considered for Big RR (it would remove the luck factor for long climbs).

A possibly non-controversial suggestion for TFL (but a pain in the ass one for MI) is to separate the MM and BnA standings. These are two very different schemes! Infinitely more so than Big RR and Tower.

[TheKomodo]

The battyrope feature should also be considered for Big RR (it would remove the luck factor for long climbs).

Agree with this!

[FoxHound]

I am in favour of batty rope for Big RR and Tower, with phased worms there's nothing to worry about it, right? I'm in favor of LDET for BRR and Tower too, since it is better to spectate on a stream, less boring and it encourages speed over caution. Rubber bounciness might be even better, but I think LDET is easier to people accept it for the league and less complicated, since physics will change less and we don't need to worry about bounciness values.

I am sure that whoever created the feature that the power goes back after reaching max force, this person was thinking in BnG, because BnG is the best scheme for this feature for sure. This feature exists since long ago with TestStuff and this is the time to apply it to BnG. For other schemes, though,  there are many haters of this feature, because people forget about it and make horrible shots that ruin the turn and the strategy. So, definitely it is urgent that this feature and all the so many others that were designed mainly thinking in BnG long time ago (such as reaim) be applied for BnG. And the reaim one, I'm in favor to the one that it resets to a random spot, not aways zero degrees.

About SDET without LDET in Boom Race, that Sensei mentioned. This is how I started playing Boom Race in WWP around 2006, 2007 or 2008. WWP has SDET feature, but not LDET. And Boom Race with multishot was played this way there, with 10 seconds of turn time. Blowtorch was OP, because you don't loose control of the worm and grenades can be dropped too before using Zook or other weapon that will loose control in last second. Nobody plays Boom Race this way since RubberWorm, everybody play SDET + LDET Boom Race, including me. It's better.

[TheKomodo]

I am in favour of batty rope for Big RR and Tower, with phased worms there's nothing to worry about it, right? I'm in favor of LDET for BRR and Tower too, since it is better to spectate on a stream, less boring and it encourages speed over caution. Rubber bounciness might be even better, but I think LDET is easier to people accept it for the league and less complicated, since physics will change less and we don't need to worry about bounciness values.

I am sure that whoever created the feature that the power goes back after reaching max force, this person was thinking in BnG, because BnG is the best scheme for this feature for sure. This feature exists since long ago with TestStuff and this is the time to apply it to BnG. For other schemes, though,  there are many haters of this feature, because people forget about it and make horrible shots that ruin the turn and the strategy. So, definitely it is urgent that this feature and all the so many others that were designed mainly thinking in BnG long time ago (such as reaim) be applied for BnG. And the reaim one, I'm in favor to the one that it resets to a random spot, not aways zero degrees.

About LDET without SDET in Boom Race, that Sensei mentioned. This is how I started playing Boom Race in WWP around 2006, 2007 or 2008. WWP has SDET feature, but not LDET. And Boom Race with multishot was played this way there, with 10 seconds of turn time. Blowtorch was OP, because you don't loose control of the worm and grenades can be dropped too before using Zook or other weapon that will loose control in last second. Nobody plays Boom Race this way since RubberWorm, everybody play SDET + LDET Boom Race, including me. It's better.

Agree with all of this other than the BnG angle thing.

I will fight you ALL to the death over this.

Do NOT take away ANY angle potential in BnG.

I can't remember exactly which one does it, but one of the options doesn't allow you to aim perfectly vertical.

Hence why I've setup the NrBnG Cup to provide all these options people asked for, but also not limit what you can actually achieve in the game with shooting.

Resetting it to a random spot, when it's no rules BnG, is absolutely useless anyway.

It's only useful IF you have a scheme setup specifically to take advantage of that for a specific reason.

And tbh that's more preference than actually being useful.

[FoxHound]

There are no features that limit the angle in BnG. I'm sure about this.

Edit: Circular aim just don't lock the aim in 90 degrees. It doesn't limit the angle. You can aim at 90 degrees.

[TheKomodo]

There are no features that limit the angle in BnG. I'm sure about this.

There was one! You couldn't aim straight up! It's been discussed in the past.

It was like using mortar, you can't aim straight up.

Anyhow, the current scheme I used in the cup does not always reset angle vertical, it also resets horizontal, it seems to be random.

Edit - I've asked KRD, he can't remember either, perhaps I was involved in a test version of the game that implemented this and I'm misremebering the circumstances that it happened in. As I know for a fact I've experienced that in BnG before about 8-10 years ago or something.

If that is not the case, I apologize for being wrong but I am also VERY glad that that is not a feature because then I have literally NOTHING to worry about! That was legit the ONLY thing I feared. Not being able to use EVERY angle possible.

Everything else is trying to help everyone else, not me.

[Lupastic]

Time to collate all these game threads and other random shit into one thread, and the most popular of which can be lobbied for change.

Teleport removed from big RR scheme - it serves no purpose

TFL Golf needs phased worms, shots can bounce off worms on pads/block shots entirely in some cases.

TFL Bungee needs phased worms, worms can block access to bungee.  Also Antisink?

TFL CTF is a broken scheme, needs rework, it’s maybe the worst/most unbalanced scheme in alround/freeleague.  Turntime is far too long and many standard maps can be won in 2 turns with wind.  ( Stunning that this was even a real scheme )

I agree with what have been said above ^

more:

allround aerial scheme change from https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-312/ to https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-2175/

allround team17 is fine the way it is, I think its ok to have multiple t17 schemes. allround team17 scheme is suitable for boring double layer cave maps. Deadcode's t17 scheme is suitable for TTL games, team17 matches on island maps. both schemes should be used for different mapstyles.

TFL kaos: https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-801/ this is the most important that needs to change asap imo this is seriously one of the worst and stupidest kaos scheme variant ever.. its from 2012, also way outdated. it has 2x damage from utilitycrates, teleports in weaponcrates, sheepstrike, invisibility, no retreat time, no hotseat time.. this scheme was surely uploaded by someone who has never played kaos in his WA-life (or got stuck around 2010, when Kaos scheme was yet a toddler with many failures), and has no idea how it works, how a kaos scheme should look like in 2024, and what is it about. just because mablak's name is there, that doesn't mean its a working scheme, guys please.. update this, just to anything else. if any more WA updates will come alive in the future, it will probably contain the option to disable double turntime from kaos scheme, so when thats available, everyone's going to update their kaos schemes anyway, cuz most kaos players don't want double turntime either.. but seriously, noone plays kaos with 2x damage enabled since 10 years.. change this, there are some good working kaos schemes even on TUS database
(funnily enough, if you take a look at the comment section of the scheme https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-801/msg143978/#msg143978
even back then in 2012 experienced kaos players raged out for this nonsensical scheme =D)

TFL boom race: Triad's newly uploaded scheme which is perfect for multibooming: https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-5471/

TFL walk for weapons: https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-56/ this is the current tus scheme, not many of you know, cuz not many of you actually play/played this scheme, but this scheme lacks a lot of weapons. there are some WfW maps out there which require weapons like: bow, 1cow, minigun, bat, and this scheme doesn't have those. sometimes it was annoying to play WfW TFL game, while my opponent + me knew we couldn't use certain weapons because only the scheme itself lacked it.

[TheKomodo]

If Team17 has multiple schemes and multiple types of maps, why don't we do the same for other schemes?

Why not have multiple BnG schemes? Multiple Big RR schemes so we can do TT Big RR or normal Big RR?

Hysteria with house rules on and off?

Golf, Boom Race and Bungee Race with LDET/SDET on/off.

We've already done it with 1 scheme, so we technically should logically allow that for others.

Or! If not, logic would dictate you separate the Team17 schemes so that Island and Cavern have different League Standing pages.

Basically! Make THAT kind of decision for all, or none at all.

Or at least why not? It's impossible for that decision not to be bias and you can see that from how it's currently setup.