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New Roper !!!!!!!

Started by Hussar, January 29, 2012, 12:36 PM

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0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


r3spect

thats why i agree with berria 100%

Peja

offtopic but wtf, why people do 2 posts in a row instead of using the modify button?

Crazy

Quote from: ShyGuy on January 31, 2012, 01:35 PM
This is why we pitched w2roper long ago, Dub.  It got rejected by the community.

Quote from: Dub-c on January 31, 2012, 12:57 PM

Its funny how many times I've seen someone get a hard crate at the end of the game and then blame crates for his loss. Even though he failed many other turns. It was still the crates fault.


Dub, try to think about what you're saying... are you saying if this person got a manageable crate last turn, then he would have won? doesn't that mean he made less mistakes since he won?  Oh, but he got an impossible crate last turn and lost? so that means he made more mistakes than his opponents and deserved to lose? Whether or not the player made more or less mistakes than his opponent solely depends on that last crate, which is a random drop, according to your logic... please stop using this argument.  

Whenever a roper is even, the past is absolutely irrelevant imo.  If both worms have 40 hp, but flip flopped around all game, then a single crate at the end prevented the kill, then that is utter bullshit for a "competitive" scheme.

Stop bullshitting Shy, you are twisting dub-c`s words into something unlogical. You have interpreted his quote, which is pretty spot on if you ask me, into bullshit. Ofcourse the past is relevant. An even game like you are mentioning as an example, might not have been an even game if one of the players had played flawlessly and that specific crate would not be decisive.

Ray

How about leaving it as it is, since it's the best as it is right now? Maciej (and anyone else taking his side, I didn't read through the topic) is right, leave these schemes alone, they don't need your newschool modifications, we don't need them, you can only harm, you can't do any good.

avirex

#65
This scheme is new school, ray.. There is absolutely nothing old school about the roper scheme on it's current state...

And how the hell can you say it's the best now and can not improve? It has never been changed since wa started for anyone to know that...

The truth is, the w2w rule, I'm not a fan of, but w;a refuses drastic change.. So we thought of a small rule to improve roper...

If I had it may way, I would show ray what old school roping was, but none wants to try or take some thing new(thats actually old) into consideration..

Dub, tho only argument I see from you and franz is that if you play a perfect game it may not have come down to that last crate that ruined the entire game.. But here is a news flash.. There is no such thing as a perfect game... Unless of course you get all easy crates...

dub, I would like for you to make a scheme, with no rules and post it... Me and several others will support it.

Crazy

Quote from: Ray on January 31, 2012, 02:40 PM
How about leaving it as it is, since it's the best as it is right now? Maciej (and anyone else taking his side, I didn't read through the topic) is right, leave these schemes alone, they don't need your newschool modifications, we don't need them, you can only harm, you can't do any good.

The entire discussion is about whether the scheme can be change to something better, Ray. I think you should take the time to actually read through the topic before you make up your opinion and post in such an arrogant way. I react on the way you try to demote some of those who`s actually trying to contribute in this topic as "newschool modifications". We need them, they CAN do some good, and the only one doing any harm in this thread is you.  

darKz

Quote from: avirex on January 31, 2012, 02:59 PM
But here is a news flash.. There is no such thing as a perfect game... Unless of course you get all easy crates...

You're implying that you never played a perfect game? I can see where the urge to change the scheme comes from. :P
I remember knowing who it was but dont remember exactly what I knew
~ Dubc 2010

avirex

Thats what I'm implying.... Yes darkz...

Me and shy gave franz an example of a game that was perfect, and crates raped in the past and franz started with.. " you bumped your head at 3:25 and did not get the best hide, your mine only did 46 damage at 5;51, you fell in retreat time at 6:13 and took 6 fall damage"

And franz was right.. Out was not a perfect game.. Anc none will eve do a perfect game.. But here is a deal for you darkz, if you can ever do a perfect game, you can move on up from your clan, to a real clan likem mm ;P

darKz

If by perfect game you mean not falling, taking every crate and attacking every turn of the game, I've done that quite a bunch of times. Maybe one day you can do it too and send in your application for CF. :)
I remember knowing who it was but dont remember exactly what I knew
~ Dubc 2010

avirex

Bahahaha.. If so, then you never experienced crate rape. Which means you are not experienced enough for mm... So I'm sorry darkz, thanks for your intereat, we had a vote and it was unanimous of no's, even tiqu voted no.. But keep trying and improving darkz, maybe one day my friend ;D

TheKomodo

Quote from: avirex on January 31, 2012, 03:14 PM
Thats what I'm implying.... Yes darkz...

Me and shy gave franz an example of a game that was perfect, and crates raped in the past and franz started with.. " you bumped your head at 3:25 and did not get the best hide, your mine only did 46 damage at 5;51, you fell in retreat time at 6:13 and took 6 fall damage"

And franz was right.. Out was not a perfect game.. Anc none will eve do a perfect game.. But here is a deal for you darkz, if you can ever do a perfect game, you can move on up from your clan, to a real clan likem mm ;P

Quote from: darKz on January 31, 2012, 03:23 PM
If by perfect game you mean not falling, taking every crate and attacking every turn of the game, I've done that quite a bunch of times. Maybe one day you can do it too and send in your application for CF. :)

You'll both get your P45 in the post :)

WookA

i dont really like this rule, i think people blame the crates a little too much... out of 100 roper losses id probably only blame one or two on the crates...

and no1 would have an excuse for losing anymore!

Crazy

#73
Seriously though avi, do you want to change the scheme because of crate rape, or because you miss the scheme used on Worms 2? Or are you maybe just tired of this scheme?

Yes, you can have really tough luck in a roper-game from time to time, but the same goes with shoppa and team17. It is how it should be! I love the excitement there is at the end of the game, when things look really tough for me, but I know I`ve still got a chance to get back in the game. I also love how I can never be too sure of a victory, because crates can screw me over, so I have to stay focused and concentrated through the entire game.

Removing these factors will result in games with almost no uncertainty involved, which sounds very boring to me. We`ve already got TTRR, Elite and BnG which are all schemes based on skill only. If you look on the standings of the best ropers, their winning percentage is pretty much the same as the best players in all other schemes. They have certainly not been crate raped to an unfair percentage compared to their skillevel. Look at Random, he has won 9 out of 10 of all ropers he has played.

I don`t really buy this crate rape in roper. We all have games where crates can screw one over, but it is the player that has the ability to stay cold and still rope focused who`s rewarded  in the end. Many players get upset and frustrated over continuesly bad crates, they make mistakes and they lose. In other words, tough crates are what defines the good ropers from the very best ropers. Instead of looking at the scheme, people should take a look at how players like dibz, dulek, random and artic manage to win as many games as they do. One thing that many players can improve on, and which these guys are really excellent at, is how efficient you collect a crate.

ShyGuy

Quote from: Crazy on January 31, 2012, 02:28 PM
Quote from: ShyGuy on January 31, 2012, 01:35 PM
This is why we pitched w2roper long ago, Dub.  It got rejected by the community.

Quote from: Dub-c on January 31, 2012, 12:57 PM

Its funny how many times I've seen someone get a hard crate at the end of the game and then blame crates for his loss. Even though he failed many other turns. It was still the crates fault.


Dub, try to think about what you're saying... are you saying if this person got a manageable crate last turn, then he would have won? doesn't that mean he made less mistakes since he won?  Oh, but he got an impossible crate last turn and lost? so that means he made more mistakes than his opponents and deserved to lose? Whether or not the player made more or less mistakes than his opponent solely depends on that last crate, which is a random drop, according to your logic... please stop using this argument.  

Whenever a roper is even, the past is absolutely irrelevant imo.  If both worms have 40 hp, but flip flopped around all game, then a single crate at the end prevented the kill, then that is utter bullshit for a "competitive" scheme.

Stop bullshitting Shy, you are twisting dub-c`s words into something unlogical. You have interpreted his quote, which is pretty spot on if you ask me, into bullshit. Ofcourse the past is relevant. An even game like you are mentioning as an example, might not have been an even game if one of the players had played flawlessly and that specific crate would not be decisive.

I am not bullshitting and the only illogical thing is the play perfect to curb crate rape theory... My statement about the past being irrelevant doesn't have to do with the statement i quoted dub in... which is why i separated the idea by a paragraph... but this wouldn't be the first time i logically shut down that argument and was totally ignored or addressed for something else I said.

Dub, let's say both worms have 40 hp and there was no hard crate the entire game... it is safe to assume, no matter how many mistakes each player made, that they are both playing pretty evenly... you're trying to tell me an impossible crate at the end of the game and the loss is ultimately your fault because you may have made a mistake in the past? Im bullshitting? first, give me a valid reason why anyone should randomly be denied a turn to attack, THE BASIC GOAL OF THAT SCHEME, just because the game engine says so... that is really the cornerstone of my argument... until then, I don't really care about your red herrings
  <-- my brain when I clan with avi