should hysteria be moved to the free league?

[nino]

All we need to do is point the classic schemes, the rest will be moved to free league ok?

So

Elite / Roper / T17 / RR / Shoppa / BnG are classic schemes!

Rest are porra scheme and must be moved to porra league ok??

did the king was clear?

 

[lales]

Intermediate Elite / Roper / T17 / RR (NOT TTRR) / Shoppa / BnG are classic schemes!

Si?

[avirex]

Contrary to some of the classic league schemes.. like BnG.. WxW.. TTRR. Schemes that are IMO to blame for the dead of TUS. At some point we decided to stick to our old favs and to schemes that clearly benefit the strongest players, rather than embrace the schemes that the vast majority of (noob) players played on wormnet. Like normal, like shopper, like hysteria. If we had slightly adjusted those popular schemes to a league format we'd be way better off right now. IMO.

i agree with you here, to a certain degree...   we might have more players interested in league, but how long would they last for? if we cater to newer players, and make it ok for them to not learn, and master the greatest scheme in the game (roping, and all its variations) then there will be no longevity to those players...

i know komo will come here and say its just my opinion, and him and hundreds of others love bng blah blah blah....

but, im sure 90 out of 100 wormers would agree with me that roping is was really drew them to this game, if it was not for roping, they would not have got so attached to worms, and invested nearly as much time.... sure, after the roping drew them in, they discovered other schemes, and invested time into those to master as well... but roping was the main reason.... i already touched on this a couple pages back, and komo tried to disagree with me, only because he likes to debate...

but before he comes here and says the same old thing.. let me just say, in W:As prime, roping was about the only scheme played... its was by far the most popular scheme.... the more and more we catered to newbs, the less and less popular it came, IMO... and hyst is the death of w:a    i truly believe that.

ok komo, have fun.

[TheWalrus]

Contrary to some of the classic league schemes.. like BnG.. WxW.. TTRR. Schemes that are IMO to blame for the dead of TUS. At some point we decided to stick to our old favs and to schemes that clearly benefit the strongest players, rather than embrace the schemes that the vast majority of (noob) players played on wormnet. Like normal, like shopper, like hysteria. If we had slightly adjusted those popular schemes to a league format we'd be way better off right now. IMO.

If there is anything that is a rampant problem in this community it is just what HHC said, and what I referenced in an earlier post, TUS has a problem of attraction.  I see many new players logging on to wormnet, but not many making the jump to league registration and playing.   Part of that is the inevitable division of players that occurs, when a game has been around for years and years, some players become incredibly proficient and skilled at playing the game.  The skill gap has never been larger than what it is right now. 

Becoming an above average allrounder in classic league currently has a learning curve that I would average at about 1-2 years of playing 20 hours a week.  Other games (allbeit more popular games with a larger player base) have matchmaking systems that allow players to feel more instantly competitive by being matched with players of their own skill levels.  Who really wants to be swatted around in classic league for season upon season by worms pros?  Practically no one, judging by the current circulation of new players on TUS.  I don't pretend to know all the answers, nor do I have a solution, but it is obvious that any solution has to take into account what new players like to play, and finding a competitive playing field on which to play it. 

The vitality of this league is only as strong as its adaptive tenets, and I forsee a future where league activity declines if changes are not made.  I'm not yet sure what those changes look like, but the classic schemes appear to not be the answer as the older players retire for good. 

[nino]

Contrary to some of the classic league schemes.. like BnG.. WxW.. TTRR. Schemes that are IMO to blame for the dead of TUS. At some point we decided to stick to our old favs and to schemes that clearly benefit the strongest players, rather than embrace the schemes that the vast majority of (noob) players played on wormnet. Like normal, like shopper, like hysteria. If we had slightly adjusted those popular schemes to a league format we'd be way better off right now. IMO.

If there is anything that is a rampant problem in this community it is just what HHC said, and what I referenced in an earlier post, TUS has a problem of attraction.  I see many new players logging on to wormnet, but not many making the jump to league registration and playing.   Part of that is the inevitable division of players that occurs, when a game has been around for years and years, some players become incredibly proficient and skilled at playing the game.  The skill gap has never been larger than what it is right now. 

Becoming an above average allrounder in classic league currently has a learning curve that I would average at about 1-2 years of playing 20 hours a week.  Other games (allbeit more popular games with a larger player base) have matchmaking systems that allow players to feel more instantly competitive by being matched with players of their own skill levels.  Who really wants to be swatted around in classic league for season upon season by worms pros?  Practically no one, judging by the current circulation of new players on TUS.  I don't pretend to know all the answers, nor do I have a solution, but it is obvious that any solution has to take into account what new players like to play, and finding a competitive playing field on which to play it. 

The vitality of this league is only as strong as its adaptive tenets, and I forsee a future where league activity declines if changes are not made.  I'm not yet sure what those changes look like, but the classic schemes appear to not be the answer as the older players retire for good.

Something that i loved when i started playing was the div1 and div2 from cl2k, really encouraged myself to get on div1 and of course first i had to get some skill and kill the putos on div2, this was fantastic!

MI could think on something like this, look at Sbaffo he gets to frustrated cos of noob bashing and peoples avoiding him, maybe this couls help a bit cos only peoples on his skill level could play with him.

well i dunno the king only want to help ae : D 

[avirex]

Walrus, the problem with this is.... we have a free league, newbs are welcome to play it... nobody wants to...


so then there is an idea of divisions.... PROS, and.... wahtever you wanna call the not so pros....

but that only splits up our already small community...

i do agree, we have to attract the newer players some how... but also, is that what we want worms to turn into??? Hysteria, and Shoppa fest in 5 years from now?? because we are only going to cater to the newbs weakness, and not push them to get better??? 

i dont know what the answer is either, and clearly something needs to change, ill agree with that.... but who the hells know what that is... and with people that debate any sign of change, at every turn... it makes it very difficult to ever find a solution

[TheKomodo]

i know komo will come here and say its just my opinion, and him and hundreds of others love bng blah blah blah....

Nope avirex, you pretty much said everything better this time

There are a few things I don't agree with in the 1st part though:

i agree with you here, to a certain degree...   we might have more players interested in league, but how long would they last for? if we cater to newer players, and make it ok for them to not learn, and master the greatest scheme in the game (roping, and all its variations) then there will be no longevity to those players...

Without a doubt Roper WAS the most popular scheme, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back then...

But honestly, it's been 17 years, I don't even think you could say Roper is the most popular scheme of all time, I would personally guess Shopper would be the most popular scheme of all time(guessing it's the most played?)

It would be interesting to find out once and for all what scheme has been played the most since WA started back in 1999, but, we can't, can we?

I don't understand why you associate longevity with just Roping, what do you base this assumption on? Do you have evidence we don't? I think if you combined every scheme played in TUS(rope based vs non rope based), you may be surprised at the outcome?

I think it's a combination of everything possible, that keeps players interested in Worms, they can Rope one day, then Hysteria the next, then Mine Madness another day etc, they can do whatever they want lol, granted, for guys like us, it was Roper/Warmer that got us hooked immediately, these days it's more Hysteria, Aerial, Kaos, Darts etc.

Things change mate, don't be upset about it, it's not like you have no one to Rope with lol.

but, im sure 90 out of 100 wormers would agree with me that roping is was really drew them to this game, if it was not for roping, they would not have got so attached to worms, and invested nearly as much time.... sure, after the roping drew them in, they discovered other schemes, and invested time into those to master as well... but roping was the main reason.... i already touched on this a couple pages back, and komo tried to disagree with me, only because he likes to debate...

but before he comes here and says the same old thing.. let me just say, in W:As prime, roping was about the only scheme played... its was by far the most popular scheme.... the more and more we catered to newbs, the less and less popular it came, IMO... and hyst is the death of w:a    i truly believe that.

ok komo, have fun.

The last time you STATED it was roping that kept 9/10 players here(as a fact), this time you are suggesting 90/100 wormers were drawn to WA through Roping, and even though I think it's more like 70% of players, I do believe it was roping that got most players hooked, but it's not the SOLE reason they stayed with the game.

I disagreed with you before because of the way you worded it, passing off things as facts instead of theory, that annoys me, this time you worded what you thought more carefully.

Definitely without a doubt back in the days of WACL roping WAS the most popular scheme, but there could be several reasons why, not because it's the greatest scheme of all time, but it was the most fun available at the time.

Many of the schemes people love now weren't even available back then, if Hysteria/Kaos/Darts/TTRR etc were available immediately when WA began, I think Roper wouldn't even exist as a League scheme lol, it would be replaced by TTRR/WxW or something.

And honestly, you keep saying you think Hyst is the death of W:A, but don't you remember that period sometime between 2004 and 2008 when WA was really dead online most of the time? I feel things like Rubberworm and schemes like Hysteria saved it, neither of us can prove the other wrong about that can we?


EDIT - Oh, and a personal note - I think Elite is the greatest scheme of all time.

[Senator]

"light league" = Elite, Roper, Shopper, Hysteria, BnG

[MonkeyIsland]

@Komo, @avirex,

You're going down that road again. Use TUS's PM function.

[ANO]

has hysteria been part of classic league for ...8 years or so? just asking

[HHC]

so then there is an idea of divisions.... PROS, and.... wahtever you wanna call the not so pros....

but that only splits up our already small community...

i do agree, we have to attract the newer players some how... but also, is that what we want worms to turn into??? Hysteria, and Shoppa fest in 5 years from now?? because we are only going to cater to the newbs weakness, and not push them to get better??? 

i dont know what the answer is either, and clearly something needs to change, ill agree with that.... but who the hells know what that is... and with people that debate any sign of change, at every turn... it makes it very difficult to ever find a solution

I think Senator's light league could help.
Atm new players are not only faced with players who have played for 5 or more years than they have, but also with 5 to even 6 schemes that they have never played before. And worms schemes are generally far apart, it's not like a different mode in Call of Duty which is all essentially the same idea: shoot the opponent.

Limiting the number of schemes would help. Elite, roper, shopper, hyst & bng is a pretty good selection IMO. Although I still think we need an alternative to BnG, mostly because of the ridiculous house rules regarding 'cheap' shots and repeats and all that. Elite could also be a little lighter.. incorporating some elements from normal: like 20sec turn time, a slightly better rope, such things.

Aside from this new TUS standard league, we could make a small league for the veteran players with more challenging (or really classic) schemes. With 20-25 players in it that can qualify either through special cups or by scoring high in the standard league (and get demoted if they suck or get inactive). This small classic league could then include TTRR, the real Elite, hardcore BnG, WxW instead of shopper etcetera. It would be a prestigious league to win, cos hardcore & no more naabbashing in regular season. On the other hand we would have the standard league that would be closer to what is going on on wormnet these days and be a nice league as introduction and for casual gamers.

Free league is redundant IMO. We should limit those schemes to cups/tourneys. Or allow them in a 'misc' scheme reporting.. a scheme that may only be picked when both players agree. That would allow ppl to pick TTRR as well in the standard league.. but only if the opponent agreed to it.

[Sbaffo]

Pro league and amateur league!

[Kradie]

Pro league and amateur league!

Finally someone gets it

[nino]

Pro league and amateur league!

Thats a good idea ae

Which schemes would be in pro league? 

[Sensei]

Don't know why ppl still talk about newcomers playing leagues, when 90% of ppl will just kick any unfamiliar name out of the lobby. You know it's true.

In the times of big steam sales, there should be a little pop-up window in #ag which, in few short lines, explains to newbies what to expect out of this game and where to find all answers. Linking them to TUS ofc.

I guess it's better then to join 3 games, get kicked 3 times. Then ask in lobby why everyone acts like morons, just to get some witty answer by taner.

Was this a pleseant first sight for the new guy?
- Nope.