bin laden dead

[Cueshark]

Cue.... I'll give up soon if you don't make efforts to understand... I really think you put a veil on it, and you miss a lot doing this..

When a FBI agent is in tailing, do you really think he had an audition before ?..

Plus, I don't think they really said "Allah is the greatest", especially for Al-Quaida members. But "Allah akbar" (the same, but in arabic).

The criminals in 9/11 were terrorists that had their own biographies which you can freely read about if you wanted to.  To even suggest that they could be actors shows that you don't really take this seriously.

The thing I wonder is, how can you tell this ? Have you seen these terrorists ? Do you know them personnaly, or some members of their family ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only clues you get are from videos/"sound tape"/text TV or Web showed you.
So it's not a sure source.

You say things that really are not true and a simple web search would show this to be the case

So you believe everything's on the web ? Take care dude...
If it really was a conspiracy, they planned very freakin' goodly this, so it means there would be almost no evidences of it, from papers to web.
They wouldn't take a single risk to let this getting found.
A single error and it's their end.

You are right.  Those transcripts were translated to English.

This is where we get to.  The conspiracy is so complex and clever that there's no evidence of it.  This becomes impossible to disprove.  So gg.

Anyway.  We're getting nowhere in this debate.

Even if I showed you very compelling evidence that these terrorists were not actors then what?  The conspiracy would then need to be even more complex for it to make sense.  We would then move on to the next subject.  Then the next.

All the time I'm being told I'm a gullible fool for believing the governments story.  When really I'm not.  I'm looking at the evidence and making my mind up.

If people want to believe in something which has no evidence for it then that's their choice.

Anyway.  I'm not enjoying this debate any more and it doesn't look like anyone else is too.

[Random00]

way too many paranoid people around here, I'm surprised. oO

The argumentation reminds me of some nazis here in Germany that discuss like this when they say that there was no Holocaust. Always claiming that the sources of the other side could be faked instead of giving own sources...

Too bad that there is never some 100% proof in the real world (Math for the win haha), but if there are enough evidences for some point I personally think that it's true then ;d

[Abnaxus]

Too finish, we don't want you to change your mind (at least me).
I just want you to realize that yeah, we don't any evidences about the conspiracy, but you neither don't have any about what they said or showed.
So both could have happenned.
That's all I'm trying to say since the start.

Cue, the very sad thing is you didn't get where I wanted to go. Even if I clearly told you what it was.

Plus you continued on this actor thing. But there was a "or" in my sentence, continued by "real Al-Quaida members".
Since you have no real evidences of nothing, except what people have told you, everything could have happenned.
Do never get what people say as an evidence, that's where you're wrong.

Anyway, I give up...

Too bad that there is never some 100% proof in the real world (Math for the win haha), but if there are enough evidences for some point I personally think that it's true then

True, but the thing is both sides (conspiracy and not) have no real evidences at all.
So do not choose one or the other. Just keep it in mind, but don't bother. Except if you get the power enough to find those evidences we miss (but no one there has).


PS: I'm really sad about your "so gg". Though you could be more objective (as you did on other debates), I was wrong.

PSS:You think the conspiracy is even more complex everytime I answer you, but I've never tell you all of the possibilities (just cause I can't, it's too long).
But since start, I've never said it was a easy one.
A conspiracy of this magnitude can't be easy, and has to be very complex if you want it to work. And they get the power to do it (I guess I should have started with this).
Btw, isn't a well made conspiracy complex by his definition ?

PSSS: I'd like to ask you one last question. If I tell you the human can move object without touching a thing, will you think there is a chance it's true ? What will be your answer ?

[Rok]

All the time I'm being told I'm a gullible fool for believing the governments story.  When really I'm not.  

Cueshark, they took gulliable out of the dictionary, did you know that? 

[Cueshark]

Too finish, we don't want you to change your mind (at least me).
I just want you to realize that yeah, we don't any evidences about the conspiracy, but you neither don't have any about what they said or showed.
So both could have happenned.
That's all I'm trying to say since the start.

Cue, the very sad thing is you didn't get where I wanted to go. Even if I clearly told you what it was.

Plus you continued on this actor thing. But there was a "or" in my sentence, continued by "real Al-Quaida members".
Since you have no real evidences of nothing, except what people have told you, everything could have happenned.
Do never get what people say as an evidence, that's where you're wrong.

Anyway, I give up...

Too bad that there is never some 100% proof in the real world (Math for the win haha), but if there are enough evidences for some point I personally think that it's true then

True, but the thing is both sides (conspiracy and not) have no real evidences at all.
So do not choose one or the other. Just keep it in mind, but don't bother. Except if you get the power enough to find those evidences we miss (but no one there has).


PS: I'm really sad about your "so gg". Though you could be more objective (as you did on other debates), I was wrong.

PSS:You think the conspiracy is even more complex everytime I answer you, but I've never tell you all of the possibilities (just cause I can't, it's too long).
But since start, I've never said it was a easy one.
A conspiracy of this magnitude can't be easy, and has to be very complex if you want it to work. And they get the power to do it (I guess I should have started with this).
Btw, isn't a well made conspiracy complex by his definition ?

PSSS: I'd like to ask you one last question. If I tell you the human can move object without touching a thing, will you think there is a chance it's true ? What will be your answer ?

You misundestood my good game.  I didn't mean that I had won this debate.  I mean how can I disprove something which has no evidence.  It is gg for this reason.

What you're basically saying is that no evidence is ever good enough for you to form an opinion.  Well we're not going to get very far then are we

[MonkeyIsland]

PLEASE help me out here. I'd like to chip in. I don't see the purpose/goal/fun in this. You go around get yourself worked up, you end up ""making fun/attacking"" each other opinions over what exactly?
Lets say government was behind this, or no, it was some pissed off Muslims. Now what happens?

[Abnaxus]

You misundestood my good game.  I didn't mean that I had won this debate.  I mean how can I disprove something which has no evidence.  It is gg for this reason.

In fact you did (except if I really missunderstood, but not for the reason you gave).
I understood the "gg" was like a "i give up, you won". But you're wrong saying that, since there is no winners in such a debate.


@MI:
I don't know how it started. But when I entered, it was to respond to Cueshark who was thinking it was clearly not a conspiracy.
So I just wanted to proove he was wrong (doesn't mean it's a conspiracy, but it could be one).
If you (not personnaly you MI, but everybody who didn't) had done some "logic", you would understand easly.

I guess the debate was if it was a conspiracy or not.

But since we don't have any evidences on both sides, we just give our opinion (which worth nothing but our beliefs).


Darkz summarized pretty well this:

An argument about a subject without any convincing proof is useless. It's gonna go in circles from here on. Let everyone have their opinions I say.

[Cueshark]

PLEASE help me out here. I'd like to chip in. I don't see the purpose/goal/fun in this. You go around get yourself worked up, you end up ""making fun/attacking"" each other opinions over what exactly?
Lets say government was behind this, or no, it was some pissed off Muslims. Now what happens?

I could argue about conspiracy theories all day long.

There were some false claims being made about 9/11 which I wanted to correct.

I'm glad that Abnaxus changed his view on the controlled demolition theory.  It's a breath of fresh air when people actually change their mind on something.  Muchos respect.

I was hoping that someone might show me something to shake my perspectives.  That would be interesting.

But it didn't quite turn out like that.  We're all mates though I think

[Husk]

[Abnaxus]

I'm glad that Abnaxus changed his view on the controlled demolition theory.  It's a breath of fresh air when people actually change their mind on something.

I never said this theory was true (don't forget it still was theory), but it neither was wrong.

At least since you provided me some real proofs that it couldn't be possible (well, it still is possible, but it fell down from 50% chance to 3%).

I can easly change my mind when people give me proofs, but it's rare they get real ones. I'm not stubborn to the point of being blind.  

I was hoping that someone might show me something to shake my perspectives.  That would be interesting.

We can't. It's just about thinking & logic.

Imagine you arrive in a new planet, and you see one and only one sheep, which is black. It could means:
- There is only black sheeps on this planet (you can't know at all, so you just wonder).
- There is only one black sheep on this planet (you got very big luck to fall on it, so it's 5% chance).
- There is some black sheeps & some other ones (there again, you can't know until you get new proofs).
You can take either of the possibilities, BUT without forgetting the 2 other ones.

People often take one and forget the other possibilities, that's were they are wrong (and where you were).

I hope it's now cleared.


PS: Wtf is this song Husk ? xD

[Cueshark]

I'm glad that Abnaxus changed his view on the controlled demolition theory.  It's a breath of fresh air when people actually change their mind on something.

I never said this theory was true (don't forget it still was theory), but it neither was wrong.

At least since you provided me some real proofs that it couldn't be possible (well, it still is possible, but it fell down from 50% chance to 3%).

I can easly change my mind when people give me proofs, but it's rare they get real ones. I'm not stubborn to the point of being blind.  

I was hoping that someone might show me something to shake my perspectives.  That would be interesting.

We can't. It's just about thinking & logic.

Imagine you arrive in a new planet, and you see one and only one sheep, which is black. It could means:
- There is only black sheeps on this planet (you can't know at all, so you just wonder).
- There is only one black sheep on this planet (you got very big luck to fall on it, so it's 5% chance).
- There is some black sheeps & some other ones (there again, you can't know since you get new proofs).
You can take either of the possibilities, BUT without forgetting the 2 other ones.

People often take one and forget the other possibilities, that's were they are wrong (and where you were).

I hope it's now cleared.

All cleared up

Except I would prefer it if your example had super sheep instead of normal sheep.  But apart from that it all made sense.

[Husk]

oh that song? just ur new favourite song [:

[Abnaxus]

I prefer this one better: 

[DarkOne]

Regarding 911 conspiracies - I was like Cue; I watched Loose Change and I was sold.  Few years later and more researched, my view has changed.  Like HHC's view, I feel like the government had knowledge of these attacks.  There are some things that still seem shady, imo... most shady would be WTC7... BBC reported WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it did, there were only small pockets of fire in WTC7, the whole thing with the owner of WTC7 just seems like fishy business... idk.. Haven't researched it in a while but WTC7 was always the odd part of the story for me. 

<3 dprjones

Regarding government - USA is definitely controlled by corporations... it is sickening... the media along with the f@#!ing worthless Constitution prevents any 3rd party candidates from ever making a serious run at president, although the president has little power compared to Congress... but the same deal goes for Congress... stupid winner-take-all voting system makes voting for 3rd parties useless... and the reason I bring up independent parties is because they aren't f@#!ed up the ass with corporate agendas.. at least not nearly as much as the Republicans and Democrats.  The government is run by greed... I wouldn't put it past them to off some people for a buck... maybe not as large scale as 9/11 (though it did benefit them), but you know... the CIA has been doing it for years.  f@#!ing capitalism does this... slaughtering American Indians, enslaving Blacks, and countless wars are all forms of unregulated capitalism.

I have only a few words in response to this: Anthony Weiner for president in 2016

There's a plethora of evidence for those willing to find it on this subject. I daresay 9/11 is event with the single biggest impact we know right now as it spawned 2 wars (well, it spawned one and it was used as an excuse for the second one) with all its ensuing geopolitical consequences.
To think nobody has done proper research on the matter is laughable; it's right there for you to find if only you are willing to look for it and look at it critically.
All I can say is: don't fall for movies that make something "look convenient". Look for sources and clear evidence. I don't claim to know the truth, but I sure won't just look at any propaganda video like Loose Change or Fahrenheit 9/11 and call it true.

[dilligaf]

<3 Husk.