The Big Religion/God Debate

[DENnis]

Before I read this topic at TUS I just looked in the internet to investigate about Stephen Hawking and landed on a long Video with him. I watched the whole Video. After that I openened TUS and stumbled upon this topic by accident 

There are many reasons why people believe in something.

Some examples:

1) I think people invented gods to explain things which they couldn't understand and explain.

2) There are always clever guys who invent things and theories (which are mainly not true) to get their own advantages out of that because of naiv people who believe them and pay for useless things (today mainly with money). Not many people are good in logical thought and it is not difficult to manipulate.
If there wouldn't be lying parents, kids wouldn't know about Santa Claus. They just believe in it because when they are too young, they believe what their parents say. The parents tell a whole story about it. The kids just can't know how it really works but they see there are gifts and that the parents told them that there will be gifts. They can't explain how the gifts got there, so the first way is to believe what their persons of trust told them at that time.
This is already a first step of an easy manipulation. The parents know how to sell the stories good enough and have an easy way to blackmail their kids (and tell them: If you have not a good behaviour, there won't be gifts from Santa Claus). When the kids hear that, they will pay attention (at least for a moment).

3) When you really believe in something, there's a lot of motivation because of your thoughts. That's like a Placebo-Effect and a very positiv thing. You just can do a lot with your thoughts already. I believe in myself and what I do. For me that's enough.


By the way, here's the Video I talked about at top: Stephen Hawking: Does God Exist?

[Aerox]

boson higgs

[DarkOne]

Give this man a Nobel prize!

Furthermore, there aren't many good arguments against the belief in God.
As a divine being he moves about in the metaphysical sphere, and as Kant tells us, that's out of reason's reach. That's why you cannot prove ór disprove his existence with scientific arguments. You can merely speculate.

Kind of a weak argument imo You can use the metaphysical as an excuse to prove anything you like.
Example!
I am a reincarnate of Isaac Newton. I know this because I was born with this knowledge. His spirit and intelligence travelled through the metaphysical plane until finally it arrived back on earth when I was born.

We all know those statements are absolute bull, but I invoked the metaphysical, so you can't argue against it according to Kant. Not even sure how you'd define the metaphysical tbh. Everything that exist outside the physical reality? Wouldn't that by definition be called fiction then?

[HHC]

Kind of a weak argument imo You can use the metaphysical as an excuse to prove anything you like.

You can claim anything you like, but not prove it.

but I invoked the metaphysical, so you can't argue against it according to Kant. Not even sure how you'd define the metaphysical tbh. Everything that exist outside the physical reality? Wouldn't that by definition be called fiction then?

Call it fiction, call it the super-natural. It's a domain where the laws of physics don't apply. The domain of religion and spirituality per se. It's where the things happen that are 'inexplicable'.
For example, you can prove that there is no physical heaven (you'd have to explore the entire universe first; if no place with angels and formerly deceased people who live happily ever after, then heaven = no). But you cannot prove that there is no metaphysical heaven (a sphere that exists outside time and space and is thus not visible, nor measurable). You can only speculate about such matters. Whether that is a fruitful way to spend your time, I don't know.. but you can always speculate  

[DarkOne]

Whether that is a fruitful way to spend your time, I don't know..

It's not Dare to make a stand!

[Aerox]

You cannot unprove it therefore it is.

[TheKomodo]

I really don't understand why people would even want a heaven?

Judging from conversations with various people over the years, i've came realise they all think of heaven as "perfect".

It would be BORING ! If everything was perfect then nothing bad would happen, then nothing would be good either, maybe at 1st it'd be cool, but very soon you would be bored...

Bad needs good and vice versa.

Or at least I just can't imagine or understand how perfect happiness for eternity never ending, think about it, NEVER ENDING, so you would always get what you want exactly when you want it... There would be no challenge to anything, no feelings, no emotions because everything would end up "just happening".

I think the reason, at least for me, why life is so fun, is because you KNOW it's going to end, so you look forward to good things, cherish the best memories.

I have to stop myself from thinking about this kinda stuff because I go way way too f@#!ing deep and it's scary, I ask too many questions.

I ask too many questions about "what happens when you die" I've never once came up with anything acceptable to me, I don't fear death, I fear not having the time to accomplish all I want, I won't get to see "what happens" to people I know and everything on Earth, if we ever make contact with Life outside of Earth or not... How does it all end?

If I could choose how I die, i'd want it to be some sort of global destruction event, like, wiping out Earth completely. How f@#!ed up is that?

[van]

I'd like to go down in some kind of apocalypse event as well. Not weird. NOT WEIRD AT ALL. Crossing fingers for 21.12.2012, eh?

You're misunderstanding concept of heaven for religious people (well, christian anyway) in a huge degree though. Afterlife is about a soul being transfered to place of eternal happiness, they don't expect to 'live' there per se, so obviously there wouldn't be any emotions and such. I've always imagined it (the concept that is) of something similar to having perfect lucid dream. But it might be different for everyone.
Oh, I'm an atheist btw, so when you die, you die, no afterlife for me, we're all just animals anyway, hehe.

[DarkOne]

Happiness is an emotion, van
Also, you wouldn't be going hell according to ancient egyptian mythology, jewish religion, buddhism or taoism. In hinduism, it would only be a temporary thing, too. All in all, it's not too bad for atheists

Komo, can you wait five billion years? The sun will run out of hydrogen, causing it to fuse helium at an increased, which will make the surface of the sun expand to about the orbit of the earth. Basically, earth will go out in big ball of fire, right after all water on earth vaporizes
Red giants, love 'm or hate 'm, right?

[Peja]

i still remember beeing fascinated about the great variation of hells in the buddishm after i read the book about the dalai lama from collin goldner 

[Abnaxus]

Komo, can you wait five billion years? The sun will run out of hydrogen, causing it to fuse helium at an increased, which will make the surface of the sun expand to about the orbit of the earth. Basically, earth will go out in big ball of fire, right after all water on earth vaporizes
Red giants, love 'm or hate 'm, right?

Don't worry, I'd pee on the sun. :]

[DarkOne]

I can see Abnaxus going to the doctor already!
"Doc! It burns when I pee!"  

[Abnaxus]

"Doc" ?!
Nah, would be "D1" !  xP

[Free]

We're not humans experiencing spirituality, we're spirits experiencing humanity.

I do believe that Conciousness exists outside the body and that we are "everlasting". It's only scary if you don't trust that you were made from LOVE.

[Desetroyah]

We're not humans experiencing spirituality, we're spirits experiencing humanity.

I do believe that Conciousness exists outside the body and that we are "everlasting". It's only scary if you don't trust that you were made from LOVE.

Its scary if you dont have the balls to realise there's nothing "beyond" what exists around us and that we're only just "elements" mostly comprised of CO2 and that this life is all you get. People with no courage resort to religion since "faith" is easy to achieve if you "know" someone's gonna take care of you in the "afterlife".

1 life is all we have, we're creatures just like everything else on this planet, no one "made" us, and we do not need someone's approval to live our lives, our judgement, as shaped by our upbringing and our natural predisposition (genes)  is what we have in order to make sense of the world and coninside happily with the planet and other human beings. Hence, there need not be anyone's "rules" and "guidelines to live" in order to be happy and have ppl around us be happy as well.

I'm pretty sure I'll hear all sorts of religious junk now so I'll try stay out of this, usually ppl are victims of their upbringing or cultural influences or even their own predisposition/"weakness".

Things are simple, this is what we have, it is "scary" if you need to feel someone's always above your head watching you and making sure you get punished. All it takes is a clear head and bravery to enjoy this life and have fun, without restraints, punishment and ppl telling you what to do, common sense is all you need.

Peace.