The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
All About TUS => TUS Discussion => Topic started by: Chicken23 on November 15, 2014, 12:31 PM
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I quote from a year ago;
Quote from: DarkOne on June 23, 2013, 01:07 PM
Quote from: KoreanRedDragon on June 19, 2013, 12:53 AM
What was wrong with doing full power shots in the first place?
The way I saw BnG, it was a test of skills, who could handle the bazooka and grenade the best. Before notching, at least, this meant picking the right angle (estimation of a weapons' trajectory) as well as the right power to fire at (a sense of timing, when to release space). Notching has for the most part removed the latter part, which is a sad thing, if you ask me.
But full power shots existed before notching was even called notching (the term appeared roughly 10 years ago, give or take). And still today, in practice, players do as many full power shots that aren't notched as those that are. A lot of the time those "by feel" full power shots, in BnG as in other schemes, are quite impressive and satisfying to pull off (see my Showcase 4 submission), certainly something I would like to see more of in league BnG, not less. By making TestStuff mandatory, TUS isn't punishing notchers, you're targeting players who resort to full power shots more often than others. And I would argue that there's enough difference between the two to make this change look completely arbitrary, especially because it comes irreversibly coupled with the inability to aim straight up easily, which actually favours experienced notchers and completely ruins, for example, my approach to aiming.
It also strikes me as more than a little schizoid that on the one hand, TUS specifically allows notching and tells players to just get better if they want to be competitive, while on the other, you're happy to resort to these extreme measures* (the only rationale being that it'll make life harder for notchers) even at the cost of reducing the viable repertoire of shots available to all players, thus making the scheme more bland.
And as an aside, why is notching bad in BnG but okay in all other ground schemes?
* Yes, introducing a different, experimental set of game mechanics into the league because of a single scheme is extreme by WA standards. Like really really extreme.
I really agree with KRD here on ts in bng. I picked it this season after coming back to tus and found that chelsea and lukz were both calling me weird for wanting to use normal bng rules. The ts rule really screws with aimming and resetting your aim straight up, sometimes you want a 1 or 2 tap shot from straight up and almost impossible to achieve this as you can never aim up so stops alot of low wind shots.
Also the full power functionality is removed and like KRD says some players use this without notching and it not being cheap.
Its really disappoint after having been inactive and as a defaulter to see some of your favourite schemes dramatically changed.
I'll carry on picking my prefered older scheme types and if people accept them thats ok, but what bothers me is how in the playoffs we HAVE to use tus schemes which aren't great. How many bngs have been played in the last year and how many of them have ts in? Also its the wrong way to prevent notchers and like KRD says, your encouraging people to get as good as notchers by notching but then make a change like this.. If bng relaxed the rules on darksiding and what was considered 'cheap' it would be a good way to battle a notcher. As most notchers haven't learnt to use bounce shots that well which can be timed to explode on impact for example and then all you need is some cover.
For example the rule, as long as you have a shot each turn your hide is legal would be great in bng as a darksiding strategy to defeat notching.
ps. sorry for the poorly quoted text but didn't know how when its in another thread that is locked.
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i hae play rr's with 5 worm, but in ts moment those are the rules, and i remeber that bng, i lose coz i accept ur fullnotchzooks xD
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The ts rule really screws with aimming and resetting your aim straight up, sometimes you want a 1 or 2 tap shot from straight up and almost impossible to achieve this as you can never aim up so stops alot of low wind shots.
Can you explain the underscored bit, please? Because I can find no plausible reason that prevents you from doing zooks with low winds other than only being able to do one type of zook shot.
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sorry i don't understand what you mean.
As you can't aim straight up you can do shots with lg 1 bar wind, or 2. And you also can't do 1 or 2 bar wind regular shots.
Also as you can't aim straight up, its impossible to achieve the 1/2 tap to the left or right aim, to again use the combination of lg and no lg zook shots.
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TS doesn't prevent you from doing shots that aren't full power.
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But it makes getting those angles almost impossible. Because it thinks your resetting your aimmer straight up and just resets your aim randomly.
I understand that you can learn to time your power to achieve fullpower. But the 2 important factors of aimming and shooting in bng are inpedied due to going against notching.
My point isn't solely about the change in the aimming process that ts forces, but the message that tus is saying learn to notch if you want to beat players like barman or mablak, and then puts in a change scheme wide that goes against that. There are other tactics to defeat a good notcher which the current rules have taken away.... going back to my point about darksiding.
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Hey Chicken, not sure if you are referring to this topic (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/standard-scheme-variants-%28part-1-competitive-ground-schemes%29-25170/), but theres plenty of room left for a discussion. Theres also an idea of allowing 1 girder without any rules, we also discussed darksiding a bit.
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But it makes getting those angles almost impossible. Because it thinks your resetting your aimmer straight up and just resets your aim randomly.
I understand that you can learn to time your power to achieve fullpower. But the 2 important factors of aimming and shooting in bng are inpedied due to going against notching.
My point isn't solely about the change in the aimming process that ts forces, but the message that tus is saying learn to notch if you want to beat players like barman or mablak, and then puts in a change scheme wide that goes against that. There are other tactics to defeat a good notcher which the current rules have taken away.... going back to my point about darksiding.
My point is that you aren't obligated to use full power shots, you seem to forget that in your motivation.
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there is alot to read there... will the out come of the conversation result in tus accepting other schemes however?
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But it makes getting those angles almost impossible. Because it thinks your resetting your aimmer straight up and just resets your aim randomly.
I understand that you can learn to time your power to achieve fullpower. But the 2 important factors of aimming and shooting in bng are inpedied due to going against notching.
My point isn't solely about the change in the aimming process that ts forces, but the message that tus is saying learn to notch if you want to beat players like barman or mablak, and then puts in a change scheme wide that goes against that. There are other tactics to defeat a good notcher which the current rules have taken away.... going back to my point about darksiding.
My point is that you aren't obligated to use full power shots, you seem to forget that in your motivation.
of course not, but the circular aim of /ts is almost removing about 8 possible nice shots... 1 or 2 strength wind in both lg and none lg for 2 or 1 angle adjustment.
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Hey Chicken, not sure if you are referring to this topic (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/standard-scheme-variants-%28part-1-competitive-ground-schemes%29-25170/), but theres plenty of room left for a discussion. Theres also an idea of allowing 1 girder without any rules, we also discussed darksiding a bit.
right now we dont have an idea or discussion about 1 girder without rules, its the default rule on tus league bng lmfao.
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-992/
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of course not, but the circular aim of /ts is almost removing about 8 possible nice shots... 1 or 2 strength wind in both lg and none lg for 2 or 1 angle adjustment.
Of course not, it just makes them harder to do. And even then, there are lots of other shots you can use, unless you don't want to learn them.
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there is alot to read there... will the out come of the conversation result in tus accepting other schemes however?
I honestly doubt that this or any topic related to schemes can change anything for "better" here, but its not like TUS is the only target. Anyway i pointed you there as its related.
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of course not, but the circular aim of /ts is almost removing about 8 possible nice shots... 1 or 2 strength wind in both lg and none lg for 2 or 1 angle adjustment.
Of course not, it just makes them harder to do. And even then, there are lots of other shots you can use, unless you don't want to learn them.
using lg 1 bar wind is pretty hard to do as it is, and by making it harder to learn something which already requires skill aren't you just turning bng into a 3sec festival? I don't see the logic in making those shots harder.
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serious question
why still, to this date, the people making the decisions to change the schemes are not amongst the best and most experienced players of said schemes?
like for example, why didn't you ask Chicken and KRD before making this change when they're clearly the two with the most perspective on the matter as proven by this thread?
you know why straight zooks and bank shots were removed from Bng? Because they're too easy to achieve. As easy as adding 2 and 2 together and making a perfect shot.
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i've not played a single bng according to tus rules this season and every opponent has accepted 'classic' rules. Really think its time to revert to the normal bng rules for next season....
ropa brings up the topic of scheme changes happening by players and members of the community that don't even play those schemes.
it would be like me changing ttrr back to 30sec rr scheme in rules because it gives me a chance to maybe draw or win some games..? learn to bng, learn to notch if you want, learn to defeat notchers in a manor that requires tactics and 'darksiding' hides where you can be protected from notched shots and still bank grenades out of this hide... bng isn't broken. Just look at the games me and AreGoetia played. Barman, Komodo and random00 all deserve their rank in bng because they took the time to master the scheme.
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Word.
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Now if you include best players that are actually active you have a point.
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Now if you include best players that are actually active you have a point.
There are none.
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so we going back to normal rules?
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no. old riles suck, new rul;es are so much better.
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So far darkone is the only person to counter argue these changes. Everyone else is just a 'non-bnger' who prefers the scheme yet hasn't given a reason why they prefer the experimental changes.. with the expection its going on the pretense that it makes notching harder because bng was 'broken'. This contains its own hyprocrisy as tus said people should learn notching and create more awareness around it.
Some players took the time to learn to notch and dt even made notching transparent within its own network by sharing a map with the notched ranges on. I even hated it at one stage but can admit i have learnt to notch some shots. However i haven't mastered it like barman, mablak, random00, komodo etc and still do shots with feeling and other shots i notch. Those players above took the time to learn it and deserve that advantage, just like anyone who practices rr or elite and becomes a better player.
Yet the current scheme changes encourages you to learn less about bng when we should be encouraging people to learn more varied shots (as Darkone has said 'don't do those shots now that the aimming makes it harder...'), classic bng scheme and rules has plenty of options for beating notchers if you don't notch, there are a lot of options for bouncing lg 5sec nades full distance of the map and getting them to explode on impact when you have a 'darksided' hide, this is just one legal example as you can teleport between a 4sec full power notch shot. It also requires a level of skill to consistently notch a shot succesfully each turn which few are good at.
So anyone want to add to my argument that its just turning it into a 3sec nade festival where your encouraged to not learn more varied shots?
ps. I still think me and Anubis created the best bng scheme rules in AL league. we didn't even have a half screen distance rule and said mininum distance should be the width of approx 2 griders.
Dead, Almog, Astgorshti(cfc guy) would be good more active people to ask.
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I think that old and new rules aint perfect but each got some plus and minus.
The problem is that we never find a scheme which would fit to everyone, but ofcourse
we can try to find out the best possible league rules to make a bng better... cleaner... etc.
Personally i dont like old girder rules, i like new one - one girder which u can set like u want - or just remove it (set to 0)
I hate sitters and not clear penattly rules - have to think about it. Would be hard to remove it.
I would like o to add 150 hp to the bng.
Anyway... i ll create a cup with an experimental rules Soon.
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(as Darkone has said 'don't do those shots now that the aimming makes it harder...')
That's not at all what DarkOne said. DarkOne said you shouldn't limit yourself to just the fp shots, as was seemingly the case when you said you can no longer play BnG now that you can't do fp shots.
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ok i can understand how you came to that opinion.
but my point is that there are ways to beat people who rely on fp shots than just dramatically creating a scheme change. And by making fp shots harder your encouraging new players to mabye do lamer 'bouncy' shots, which are prefectly legal if they don't become sitters, and your not just making it more difficult to do a fp 4sec shot that can be notched, but changing the degree of difficulty to do various low wind zooks with and without lg... while they whole time your potentially being repeated by a 3sec nade roller?
Now for the rant... and probably ropa and SPW will agree with me here..
I guess more to the point is that changing the scheme isn't the answer yet its really frustrating when these changes are put in place without little consideration to the history of a scheme or with any discussion with input from players who know that scheme well, but not only that a generation of hysteria breed wormers accept whatever tus scheme is put infront of them as gospel as don't know any different.. its like lets change a scheme, play it for 45 days and because no one who knew old bng rules was active that month its now the default tus scheme cus less than 100 shopper, wxw hysteria guys played it and liked it as they don't know bng that well. Then you come back from being inactive to see one of your favourite schemes has been ruined....
KRD has been the only person to give any constructive feedback on schemes as trying to define the standard schemes that people agree to, so t17 can release them in an update so wormers learn 'correct' schemes by default.
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*BUMP*
Here is a list of all the bngs i've played since returning to activity to discover the tus classic bng rules changed with little thought to bngers. I also have agreement from none bng'ers like Lukz that the bng rules suck but he just plays tus bng rules because favours his ability when his worse scheme and dislikes repeating of 4secs. The main person to not accept old tus bng scheme has been Chelsea :x
In the list of all my tus bng picks over the past 2 seasons every opponent has agreed to old school bng rules with no /ts and grider can't be used as protection [With the expection of p3 refusing a pick once so we didn't play] Please Darkone and MI revert back to the old bng rules and watch each game to see that the classic rules are not broken and all these games end in legitment ways with no rules being broken. There may be some cheap shots but must games are played sportingly and not a single one of resolved in a complaint.
184841 vs sbaffo
184779 vs messi
184778 vs messi
184594 vs messi
184575 vs dibz
184197 vs Spoon_Head
183673 vs dibz
183268 vs Spoon_Head
183035 vs dibz
182966 vs dibz
182959 vs Senator
182155 vs Almog
180938 vs Almog
180753 vs ArsGoetia
180752 vs ArsGoetia
180735 vs dibz
180240 vs Lukz [Wouldn't agree to old bng rules after his lost this game in future picks]
179762 vs Peja
176278 vs Lukz [Was played in september and had no problem playing old bng rules]
CKC's bng
184531 vs cfc [I wasn't even involved and using classic bng rules :)]
182444 vs tdc
182436 vs p3
180708 vs p3
175709 vs l3x
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heres a great example of why the scheme shouldn't have sg as encourages lame evil hides that lukz used.
184769 almog vs lukz.
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xD
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I didn't want to. But after seeing Tom's effort what the f@#! is wrong with you D1?
Holding position because ego? I didn't expect this from you dude. Please wake up.
You made a mistake, and Chicken has been very kind highlighting the flaw. Please don't feel bad about changing your mind.
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I fully support and agree with Chicken!
Remove this senseless TS
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The best imo is nrBNG by Komo.
The real and pure bng without repeating nades/girders/complains.
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neither the current tus scheme, the old classic tus scheme nor komos scheme have rules about repeating nades.
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I made NrBnG? Are you sure? I can't remember this lol...
Personally speaking, for me the best BnG scheme/rules were the a2b League ones, which of course, would not go down well here :D
But honestly, it doesn't matter what scheme/rules you play with, it all comes down to how much you and your opponent respect each other and if you have the same mindset or not.
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I invented nrbng
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I invented nrbng
I invented nrbng, and so did my wife.
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w2 invented bng, and nrbng
but pranksters wife was there too..
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What is notching? Of course, i have translated it, but i still can't see any connection to BnG.
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NrBnG invented itself :P
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So we all in agreement to /ts being removed from bng?
Its then up to players to decide if they want sg in their schemes or not? I personally don't use it and pick maps that arn't like the almog lukz replay.
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Guys, I'm pretty sure I invented NRBnG.
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Guys, I'm pretty sure I invented NRBnG.
after you heard me talk about it
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@Darkone:
why don't you add a pole for this TS?
Or even better a public vote where we can see who vote and try to get some conclusions about what the community really wants.
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In modern BnG there's too many unofficial/untold/abstract rules that most people don't understand, therefore they don't want to bother with it and go play hysteria :-\
That's why BnG is dying and only played by roughly at least 10 years-experienced players
/ps I'm for /ts
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In modern BnG there's too many unofficial/untold/abstract rules that most people don't understand, therefore they don't want to bother with it and go play hysteria :-\
That's why BnG is dying and only played by roughly at least 10 years-experienced players
/ps I'm for /ts
tl;dr the new community is simple, lazy and most likely stupid and we did an awful job teaching them
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the new community of wormers are going straight to hysteria...
much like the last generation was going straight to shoppa...
the problem with that is, shoppa had potential to grow into wxw players, then roper players, and ttrr players...
roping is what gave this game the longevity it has has... there is no way this game would have lasted 10 years without roping, thats a fact.
so my theory is that hysteria is going to be the death of this game.
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there is no way this game would have lasted 10 years without roping, thats a fact.
Nah man, WA has lasted as long as it has because of it's variety and diversity, most of the players who were around in the big roping era are long gone, the game has survived the past 6 or so years thanks to schemes like Shopper, Hysteria, TTRR, Kaos, Abnormal etc... We all know Hysteria isn't your dream scheme, but it's definitely done it's fair share of keeping the game popular, and when you look at the bigger picture, that's what matters, the overall activity of WA, regardless of what schemes are being played.
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something totally unexpected and something usual happened at the same time.
I agree with avirex and Komo is wrong.
In fact, the time were this game was more active and arguably more competitive was the time of Roping DoNs, and #RopersHeaven.
Surely if back then the game was this feature rich it would have been equally active and competitive but it wasn't the case.
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The time WA was more active was within the 1st 3 years of being released, that's the ONLY reason it was more active, because it was new/original/popular.
If all WA ever had was roping, WA would be dead by now, i'd bet serious money on that.
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back on topic.
Can we agree to remove /ts from the offical bng rules starting next season?
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bump, and grider protection..
there is barely anyone who likes the tus rules playing it expect chelsea and lukz and they are not traditional bngers....
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expect chelsea and lukz and they are not traditional bngers....
ye, we are MAGIC BnG pwners ! :D
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Was watching CKC Vs TaG last night, I never realized girders could be used in any way now...
What the f**k happened to this scheme???
ts was bad enough, but using girders for protection??? BnG is at an all time low...
These new rules are an embarassment to one of the most Classic schemes Worms as a franchise has to offer, it should go back to how it was.
Not only that, it's extremely unfair why you change rules for BnG yet won't change rules for other schemes, the amount of complaints you have had against Hysteria and you will not change Hysteria, yet you are happy to completely f**k up like I said, one of the most Classic schemes of all time...
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haha it took you almost 2 years to realize that change ;D
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Lol, i've only played 1 TuS BnG for like 2 years and that was against you and Husk last week and we used the old scheme with SG added :)
Put it this way, I will never use this new TuS BnG scheme, using this scheme is about as much fun as sleeping with a fat girl...
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using this scheme is about as much fun as sleeping with a fat girl...
you've crossed the line of hipocrisy and realism by talking out of your f@#!ing ass once again.
You're already 30, it's about time to think like an adult.
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blah blah blah
*yawn*
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so you're telling me you've ever been with a woman we could consider thin?
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Ok, so far the following well known players feel /ts has no place in BnG:
I really agree with KRD here on ts in bng. I picked it this season after coming back to tus and found that chelsea and lukz were both calling me weird for wanting to use normal bng rules. The ts rule really screws with aimming and resetting your aim straight up, sometimes you want a 1 or 2 tap shot from straight up and almost impossible to achieve this as you can never aim up so stops alot of low wind shots.
Also the full power functionality is removed and like KRD says some players use this without notching and it not being cheap.
4. Should TestStuff's circular aiming be part of the scheme? Why did TUS start enforcing it for BnG? I find it breaks my normal way of aiming completely so that I have to rely on notching more because of it, not less. Without going into the details of notching, isn't that the opposite of the desired effect? Not to mention that with the current implementation of it, fall damage is actually easier to achieve, making it very hard for players with 10+ years of BnG experience to estimate shot damage, while adding no positive effects that I can think of. TestStuff really has no place in BnG, I feel.
4. Should TestStuff's circular aiming be part of the scheme? Why did TUS start enforcing it for BnG? I find it breaks my normal way of aiming completely so that I have to rely on notching more because of it, not less. Without going into the details of notching, isn't that the opposite of the desired effect? Not to mention that with the current implementation of it, fall damage is actually easier to achieve, making it very hard for players with 10+ years of BnG experience to estimate shot damage, while adding no positive effects that I can think of. TestStuff really has no place in BnG, I feel.
Definitely no place in BnG.
Word.
^^ I assume this means he agrees with the subject Chicken23 brought up?
Berria seems to be 50/50.
I fully support and agree with Chicken!
Remove this senseless TS
This is the pre-game chat log of our Clanner UC Vs TdC from 1-2 weeks ago:
[2015-02-22 00.23.21] [bfw`hollow] the tus bng scheme sux :(
[2015-02-22 00.23.21] [UC`Piki1802`dS] you dont have him in your clan atm
[2015-02-22 00.23.21] ••• Incoming connection on slot 5
[2015-02-22 00.23.21] ••• Connection closed: 5, -1
[2015-02-22 00.23.21] [UC`Piki1802`dS] xd
[2015-02-22 00.23.25] [bfw`hollow] i hate ts
[2015-02-22 00.23.39] [UC`LeTK`AbC-dS] Oh yeah ts is nonsense.
[2015-02-22 00.23.46] [UC`LeTK`AbC-dS] Wanna play w/o?
[2015-02-22 00.23.48] [HuskyTdC] btw if u guys have other ideas for bng scheme I am ok with any settings
[2015-02-22 00.23.58] [UC`Piki1802`dS] husky dont do like ur okay
[2015-02-22 00.23.59] [UC`Piki1802`dS] ur not
[2015-02-22 00.23.59] [UC`Piki1802`dS] :D
[2015-02-22 00.24.04] [UC`LeTK`AbC-dS] xD
[2015-02-22 00.24.06] [HuskyTdC] lol xD
[2015-02-22 00.24.08] [HuskyTdC] I am ok with any xD
[2015-02-22 00.24.13] [HuskyTdC] tus settings r weird
[2015-02-22 00.24.24] [UC`Piki1802`dS] weird schemes for weird people :D
[2015-02-22 00.24.28] [UC`LeTK`AbC-dS] :D
[2015-02-22 00.24.34] [HuskyTdC] lol
^^ As you can see, everyone here agrees /ts is a bad choice, that is another 4 people, I am sure I could find at least another 10-20 well known players who would agree given time to research & question them.
Personally speaking, I agree with KRD/lacoste and Chicken23, who are 3 of the schemes best players and biggest supporters/traditional players, players who care about the scheme, not about winning/losing.
I've done a bit of research over the last day and from what I see:
The new rules have definitely not improved BnG, I don't see ANY new players taking a sudden interest in enjoying the scheme or having any passion for it.
The new rules make BnG unpleasant for the people who enjoy the scheme, and actually care about it.
The players who are for /ts are players who generally don't pick BnG, never play BnG funners and generally not interested in the scheme BnG, the only person I see who is for /ts and I know enjoys BnG is Xrayez, also, the players who want /ts are actually known to complain about BnG regardless of the rules, they just don't like the scheme, they either find it boring, or only play it to win points, you would never see them playing BnG for fun.
So why are the vast majority of players who play BnG being ignored on this issue? Why do the people who have actually enjoyed BnG for longer than TuS has existed, some players even 10+ years not have a voice here?
Why are the people who pretty much never pick BnG, or play it just to enjoy it for fun, or have a history of knowledge with the scheme, in charge of deciding what happens to it? How can you justify this as being fair? Surely the decision should be in the hands of those who actually play it? Who care about it? Who are experienced and have knowledge and skill with the scheme?
I cannot see any valid reason not to go back to the old BnG rules, or even let us improve it.
Can we please do something about this?
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how many times do you change sides in a week Komo
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I'm 100% Chicken23. :)
And Komito.
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The grider for protection is ridiculous.
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actually i like to get rid of this bounce rule. just way too complicated. actually it just makes the game longer which could be fixed by starting with less hp. and it adds some tactical decision making when to use it best. every girder you put (even when u just want to bounce a nade) does alter the possible shots of your opponent.
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The grider for protection is ridiculous.
and for bouncing too
it's a direct result of the shitty tree texture (notchers handicap) which you all love to use because.
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I think MI and Darkone need to provide input to restoring to classic bng rules as experimental season hasn't provided any benefits expect an excuse for lamer bngs and non bng players to force the game into a cheap standard that benefits them, not the people who enjoyed bng as a competitive league scheme.
Currently if you make playoffs you would be forced to use ts and grider for protection rule which is just insane. The only players who argue against this are Chelsea and Lukz :o :o :o
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Currently if you make playoffs you would be forced to use ts and grider for protection rule which is just insane. The only players who argue against this are Chelsea and Lukz :o :o :o
And, of course, Chelsea and Lukz would never pick BnG in PO anyway...
I will PM DarkOne and MonkeyIsland and direct them to this thread, it'd be nice of them to acknowledge this again. Granted D1 already replied to this thread earlier, but he hasn't since.
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i dont like the new rules, but that are the current rules, i am not criying coz we are playing ttrr with 5 worms (sux too xD) or t17 with 7girders
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i dont like the new rules, but that are the current rules, i am not criying coz we are playing ttrr with 5 worms (sux too xD) or t17 with 7girders
monkey see monkey do...
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i dont like the new rules, but that are the current rules, i am not criying coz we are playing ttrr with 5 worms (sux too xD) or t17 with 7girders
i'm not even an rr'er and think we should go back to only 3 worms in ttrr. - lets start another thread for that one?
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So are TuS Staff just going to ignore this problem??
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So are TuS Staff just going to ignore this problem??
Support
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This is part of chatlog from CKC Vs cFc Clanner Playoffs earlier tonight:
[2015-03-08 20.47.44] [Chicken23CKC] we pick classic bng
[2015-03-08 20.47.46] ••• Player joined: CkC`GreatProfe
[2015-03-08 20.47.49] [Chicken23CKC] do you agree to that scheme?
[2015-03-08 20.47.53] [CkC`GreatProfe] no
[2015-03-08 20.47.56] [cfclalo] we don't care
[2015-03-08 20.47.56] [Chicken23CKC] lol
[2015-03-08 20.47.57] [CkC`GreatProfe] xD
[2015-03-08 20.48.00] [Chicken23CKC] thanks
[2015-03-08 20.48.04] [Chicken23CKC] as its playoffs
[2015-03-08 20.48.08] [cfclalo] hate that ts stuff tbh
[2015-03-08 20.48.12] [Chicken23CKC] you could force us to play with ts
[2015-03-08 20.48.15] [Chicken23CKC] and grider for protection
[2015-03-08 20.48.23] [Chicken23CKC] go post in the thread on tus about it lalo ^
[2015-03-08 20.48.33] [Chicken23CKC] its insulting that tus have made it the default scheme.
[2015-03-08 20.48.34] [Komito`dS] I can extract chat log :D
[2015-03-08 20.48.35] [cfclalo] nah we don't like these new rules created by some dumbass
As you can see, and with all the other evidence in this thread, pretty much nobody wants /ts and these insane rules for BnG (not to mention other schemes...).
Please can you return to the old BnG scheme?
Edit:
Forgot to add, during the actual game, we briefly discussed TuS BnG, who even decided about the new girder rule? As far as I can see, no one even suggested or advised this rule, which would mean TuS Staff went ahead and just changed the rules for no reason, surely that isn't acceptable?
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I like how every day is a new day in Komodo land.
you never know if he'll wake up lazy, careless towards progress and just going from thread to thread asking people why do they care so much
or if he's going to wake up feeling justice and pick up on old discussions and steal all the credit for change
it's the roulette of his life, and every square is sanctimony.
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credit for change xddd
really?
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yes, credit is what's important here...
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it seems the only way to capture MOD's attentions is starting to offend someone... with who we could start??? some moms available?
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Aerox, what are you talking about?
Do you support Chicken23 here or not? Do you like /ts or not? Do you like the other changes to BnG?
This isn't a TV show, stop using threads to gossip about people, and actually get involved with the topic?
People are starting to get angry with TuS, i've seen people complain about rules and way this new "experimental season" was handed.
I've seen the word "dumbass" used constantly referring to those who actually implemented these new rules. amongst other things.
MonkeyIsland & DarkOne obviously know about this thread, and they are choosing to ignore it, they are ignoring us, the people who put all the time and effort into playing this scheme and learning it.
We have spent a fair bit of time researching other threads, previous games, talking to other players, i've personally even joined and spectated clanners over the last few weeks just to see people complain about the same thing.
The most regular players who are keeping Classic League active did not ask for this change of rules, they did not support it, honestly, it shouldn't have happened at all...
I will continue to find more and more support for this, until they have no choice but to listen to us.
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you ignored those rules for 2 years and now you are pissed theres no action within 2 weeks? xD
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you ignored those rules for 2 years and now you are pissed theres no action within 2 weeks? xD
I never ignored them, I never knew about them, I barely even played for past couple years i've been busy.
But now that I do know, I am trying my best to take action.
And Tom Started this thread November 2014, hardly 2 weeks.
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btw:) https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-1/msg160460/#msg160460
its not like this girder rule came from d1 and monkeyisland
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Good catch Peja, I can't even remember this girder part from barman :O
Did I actually support it back then? I doubt it... Weird... I would never go for that... I guess I pasted his ideas, just to spread the fact we were trying to better BnG, but I definitely don't think I would ever support 1 girder with no usage restrictions.
And yes, I know things don't just happen overnight, but the least we could get it at least acknowledgement that this is a problem and that TuS Staff will try to deal with it / find a solution.
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Komo, few days ago you were getting mad at people for debating rule changes and telling everyone to shut up and carpe diem and ran around playing darts and advertising yourself and your new life
now all of a sudden you get behind this change and want inmediate action standing from a higher moral ground
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Komo, few days ago you were getting mad at people for debating rule changes and telling everyone to shut up and carpe diem and ran around playing darts and advertising yourself and your new life
now all of a sudden you get behind this change and want inmediate action standing from a higher moral ground
I am not behind the change, I am against the changes that happened to BnG.
Whatever I have said in the past, fine, but my mind is made up now and I feel I am on the right side, I am the kind of person who will change his mind given sufficient evidence.
Talking about sides, which side are you on? It would be nice to see you using your wisdom for a better cause, rather than point out other peoples flaws, we all have them, including you, but we don't make a daily routine of pointing out your flaws, no one is perfect.
Can you help us or not?
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there's not much else I can do that I haven't already: support chicken and hope my incredible insight doesn't go unnoticed
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Why is it so important for you Komo? I don't see you being involved with BnG anymore nor in Classic league. Last time I remember you played a clanner with Barman and Mablak and barman showed such high skill and precision in notching which made you crazy. I think you didn't even finish the match and rage quit. After a while, more people were into notching. some even said "BnG got broke". "Good ol' instinctive BnG turned into a math table". I think some even made a chart.
What's the fuss for 1-girder-no-restrictions rule? It's just one girder and it can easily be destroyed. On the other hand, we had arguments over girder abuse. Some players used to place it for bounce and then 2 turns after they teleport on the other side of it as protection.
I don't mind going into the change process again. But I don't think your side even exceeds 5 people. (5 people who play Classic league even?)
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I don't mind going into the change process again. But I don't think your side even exceeds 5 people. (5 people who play Classic league even?)
you seriously should read that topic again, especially at page 2:)
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I have. But I also have been involved with every side nagging. (Not only BnG, but every other scheme change we went through in TUS's history) We did it because there were lots of requests at the time. Now the community is less active.
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besides i dont think the problem is that big, since almost noone plays bng. and the guys still doing it will agree to old rules anyway.
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Why is it so important for you Komo? I don't see you being involved with BnG anymore nor in Classic league. Last time I remember you played a clanner with Barman and Mablak and barman showed such high skill and precision in notching which made you crazy. I think you didn't even finish the match and rage quit. After a while, more people were into notching. some even said "BnG got broke". "Good ol' instinctive BnG turned into a math table". I think some even made a chart.
It's important to me because i've arguably put more time into BnG than any other player in WA, I spent like 5 years of my life addicted to it playing for hours and hours everyday.
Granted the past 2 years i've been extremely inactive in WA let alone TuS, however, I played a clanner with UC a few weeks ago which sparked my interest again, I left UC though and I am currently looking to join a clan and start clanning again, BnG being my favourite Classic scheme, this would be a huge setback for me personally if these new rules were to remain.
And yes, that game was annoying, I won't get into it because i've already been there.
What's the fuss for 1-girder-no-restrictions rule? It's just one girder and it can easily be destroyed. On the other hand, we had arguments over girder abuse. Some players used to place it for bounce and then 2 turns after they teleport on the other side of it as protection.
Having 1 girder doesn't bother me, it's the fact it has no usage restrictions that bothers me, being able to use it to block an opponents shot just goes against the entire point of the game making the darksiding rule pointless also...
The rule was fine before, if a player banks a couple shots off a girder, then hides behind it for protection, he is obviously breaking the rules and should be punished, it doesn't take a lot of brain power to know the difference between using it for bouncing and using it for protection.
I don't mind going into the change process again. But I don't think your side even exceeds 5 people. (5 people who play Classic league even?)
So far I have 14 people mentioned in this thread alone that support going back to old rules (including myself).
Out of those 14, 8 play Classic league, and are some of the main players who play Clanners, that number will be 9 as soon as I find a clan ;)
I haven't even had a chance to speak to a lot of players yet, but I will continue to spectate games, talk with players, and gather support.
TuS is less active now, I can't say why exactly, people moving on with their lifes, the younger generation hitting puberty and finding their 1st love, who knows, but I do know i've seen around a dozen people in the last few weeks complain about TuS rules, mostly BnG/TTRR.
I don't feel a vote to change BnG rules would help here either, as a TuS vote open to every TuS member who most of which don't even play BnG, or know enough about it.
At the very least, I would personally be happy just to get rid of /ts for the time being, and have a serious discussion about the rest of the rules to see what is the best option.
I don't like the girder rule, but I can tolerate it, I cannot tolerate /ts... As it seems most people can't tolerate /ts either.
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thank you for the reply MI. I think there is more than 5 active bngers requesting the change and like peja says most people agree to classic rules in games. However its more popular than tus bng rules and frustrating when new players think this is the correct bng scheme. Also in clanner playoffs (althought cfc agreed to classic rules), someone like chelsea who uses the new tus rules to their advantage but isn't a natural bnger is at an advantage.
I think there is enough people in favour of going back to classic bng for tus rules, and if people want to use ts and grider protection they can agree to that, but if not classic should be the preset, especially when some players refuse classic bng rules to avoid a game or won't accept in a playoff match.
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I didn't add Peja to the list before because he never specifically said he didn't like the /ts rule, but I had a conversation with him yesterday and he also supports no /ts.
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edit: more serious note:
i kind of dont mind the girder rule, it makes for a lot less drama on whats acceptable, and whats not with the stupid f@#!in girder... there has been so many complaints over whats acceptable, so thats a good solution. 1 single girder, no restrictions... i dont see what the big deal is, its equal playing field, each side can use the gird any way he likes, it does not take much to destroy a gird... its no problem
as far as /ts i can agree that it should not be the standard, but my opinion on this is the person who picks the scheme should be allowed to decide how its plays...
for instance, if Chicken wants to pick bng in a singles, clanner, or more importantly a PO, he should not have the opposing team being able to put restrictions, and stipulations on how he plays it...
the player who picks the scheme should be the one to decide how its played-
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the player who picks the scheme should be the one to decide how its played-
you NEED to draw the line though. If you go under that principle things escalate quickly and get out of control
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well, i was going to say "obviously this does not mean the person picking the scheme can make up his own variation of bng" but i thought that did not need to be said, how ironic that the self proclaimed smartest dick in w:a is the one that wants the obvious stated.
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I know it might seem strange coming from me, but can we not argue and please work together on this?
If something is said that might seem obvious, no big deal, just ackowledge it and move on :)
We've gained good support so far, let's continue this :D
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i could not pass the opportunity to take a quick jab at ropa, lord knows he never passes it up towards anyone else.
anyway, komo, im not really trying to get involved in your little revolution here, but i think that rule could apply to all schemes, and it would suit everyone...
whoever picks the scheme, gets to pick how its played
so whoever picks ttrr, would get to decide if its played with 3 worms, or if its 5 worms
whoever picks shoppa gets to decide if its played with afr or not
i believe there is 2 wxw schemes that constantly get flipped around, whoever picks gets to decide
obviously same with bng, the person/team who picks the scheme decides...
i think it would solve a lot of problems, and it just makes more sense imo, and most importantly, it would make everyone happy... if MI would agree to this, then he would not have to try to decide what scheme is going to make the majority happy, what rules will make the majority happy etc. and will not have to listen to complaints from other people saying the scheme or the rule sucks...
but if people do like this idea, and MI does agree to it, then there should be a thread made with the variations that are acceptable in each scheme... maybe there will be 2 different variations for wxw, and t17, ttrr will be played with either 3 worms, or 5 worms but same scheme regardless. bng will have only 2 schemes to chose from, and with each scheme you can then decide if its /ts or not. etc.
then if i picked bng, and you did not like how i played it, you can pick bng yourself, and play it yourway... .maybe there will be 2 different out comes, maybe not... but either way i think it would keep disagreements to a minimum, because there will be nothing to debate... we can have a new catch phrase "the picker is the picker, so lets not dicker!" how ya like that komo, ae?
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I need to think about that one, give it time to sink in, it isn't a horrible idea, but something bugs me about it and I don't know what yet...
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I don't like /ts myself. (also dislike Test stuff in general)
But I support the new girder rule. It's just more clear and less confusions/drama.
Neutral on shotgun.
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i like avi idea.
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I don't like /ts myself. (also dislike Test stuff in general)
But I support the new girder rule. It's just more clear and less confusions/drama.
Neutral on shotgun.
I can live with that :D
Obviously I prefer shotgun, it was me who started using it in a2b :D
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just out of curiosity
how many girder complaints did you get per season under the original rules?
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+1 avirex's idea
have a list of permissible scheme variants, and host can pick either one.
want bng with ts? OK
want kaos with no double damage, OK
roper on cave map with no rope and infinite bananas? f@#! off
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honestly, it would put a lot less pressure on the mods, instead of trying to determine which scheme is the best suitable to make everyone happy (its clear at this point in w:a, we will never make everyone happy) there can be different variations of each scheme that are acceptable, and the person/team who picks the scheme, can decide the variation that will be played.
this idea could also be an easier way to introduce new variations, that have potential to turn into favorites. for instance, instead of having long debates and threads that go absolutely no where about hysteria, if someone comes up with an idea for a new variation of the scheme, it can then be voted on.. if majority votes that this new variation is acceptable, then it can be placed in the "acceptable schemes database" or whatever you would like to call it... then whoever picks hysteria, can decide on the variation played, and as said before, if you don't like that variation, then as the second pick, you can pick hysteria, and play it your way.
the idea could finally bring some positive change to the game, with hopefully very little argument, and MonkeyIsland will not have to make a final say on what he thinks will make majority happy, and we wont have to have these silly 'experimental' seasons... all you have to say is... in a scottish komo like voice "the picker is the picker!! so lets not dicker!!" ;p
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whoever picks the scheme, gets to pick how its played
so whoever picks ttrr, would get to decide if its played with 3 worms, or if its 5 worms
whoever picks shoppa gets to decide if its played with afr or not
i believe there is 2 wxw schemes that constantly get flipped around, whoever picks gets to decide
obviously same with bng, the person/team who picks the scheme decides...
Hmm players will then pick the variant that gives them better chance to win. Good ropers will play Shopper with AFR rule against weaker ropers and vice verca. A fast but inconsistent roper will pick TTRR with 5 worms against slower but more consistent roper. A noobbasher will also pick 5 worms to make sure that the opponent can't surprise. The schemes don't change that drastically, though.
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blablablalbalbalblabla
do u even play bro
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just out of curiosity
how many girder complaints did you get per season under the original rules?
One or two tops until proven otherwise.
So please revisit the part were you claimed it was a big problem source of great complaints, TUS.
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ropa, when you have to answer your own questions... take a hint
no one cares to talk to you.
senator, yeah, some people will naturally choose the variation that would give them a greater chance of winning... but some people will just pick a variation based on what he enjoys more...
either way, its not like they are drastic changes, and most variations are just how we used to play it before the experimental season... ttrr: 3 worms, or 5 worms... shoppa, AFR, or not... these changes were all due to the experimental season... anyway.. i think its a good idea to adapt this rule, i really cant think of any negative results of it, but the most positive thing that will come of it though is people can no longer complain about the schemes/variation...
If MonkeyIsland went back to how things were before the experimental season Chicken, Komo, and many others would be happy with that... but there will be plenty of people that would not be happy... so letting the scheme picker, pick the variation will make everyone happy... i wish MonkeyIsland would comment here regarding this rule.
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I don't think that is a good idea.
Current system, allows to to pick a variation upon agreement, but if there's no agreement, then the default scheme must be played. What you are suggesting, with a little bit of exaggeration, splits the skills.
"DarkOne is a good non-AFR shopper player but FFie is a good AFR shopper player."
"Komo is a great BnGer!" "Wait!! with ts or without ts?" "Oh that yea with ts he sucks"
Something similar happened in Team17 scheme. Some oldies very much liked unlimited girder. In current team17 scheme you gotta use your girders wisely while in the old one, you could just dump one anytime you couldn't think of a better move. One tweak in the scheme created 2 styles of play.
We need to settle one scheme and stick to that. If 2 players agree on something, then let them play that but one scheme must be declared as official.
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I realize that Avirex. People ignoring me is not going to stop me from being the only person in this thread aware of how the staff here is just trying to justify changes they don't even remember why they underwent.
And how MI here is trying to improvise his way out of a bunch of choices he made and he probably doesn't even know how.
Ignorance has never stopped me, I'm used to dealing with it.
MonkeyIsland you're out of your depth and I suggest you let D1 do the talking and stop exposing the staff in this league for a bunch of careless bobs who undergo changes for the sake of it.
These threads asking the staff to justify their changes are the most popular in your own website. You never deliver. This is your idea of an answer (on the topic of one girder in bng and do with it what you want):
I support the new girder rule. It's just less confusion/drama
So what are all the threads calling out on TUS staff for making shit changes every other month? Ain't that confusion? Ain't that drama? Where are the hundreds of new players that love your changes? Playing TUS bng? Not posting in this thread are they? What's the excuse? Intimidated by the elitism?
More gems:
Something similar happened in Team17 scheme. Some oldies very much liked unlimited girder.
Who? Where is the poll?
TUS is not the people's league. It's the people's bitch. You started this off by making votes for everything, went to shit quickly. Now how exactly is that you decide what changes to undergo in a scheme? I really want to know. It seems as if you read a thread and decide upon yourselves, the staff, but I look at the current line-up and I don't even see a guarantee that you lot read a thread like this and even understand what's going on.
This is why the end result of a change is CHelsea and Lukz happy, and everyone else nto, and those with a minimun insight in the game complaining in this thread while you try to justify your changes with moot excuses and generalizations.
I really thought FB would lose the "Leagues vs Leagues tournament", but TUS is just a different animal altogether. I've never seen such radical changes by people that show so little knowledge about the game, at least in a place were I can read it.
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your saying DarkOne is good in non-AFR, and "oh, komo, wait, oh yeah with ts he sucks"
if people think they can earn a slight advantage by picking a certain variation, then so be it, whats the problem with that? is that really a reason to deny the idea?? i mean, its not like the variations are completely different, where you can hardly classify them in the same scheme... your talking either ts, or no ts- shotguns, or not... does it really make that much of a difference?? and attacking from rope, or not... does it really matter? its 30 second shoppa.
now if we were talking roper scheme, and w2roper scheme thats obvious advantages to one side, and i would not support that idea either.. now we are talking about a total scheme change..
but when your talking about ts/shotguns.. afr.. petrols in shoppa.. weaps in wxw... thats all petty changes that anyone should easily be able to adapt to.
i think its better to say that the scheme picker can pick the variation rather then you personally coming out of left field with "experimental seasons" then when some people decided they liked the schemes, now they are the current settings... why do you think some people liked the experimental schemes tho?? because they seen an advantage for themselves in it... where as others do not like the new variations of schemes...
so, declaring one scheme official scheme is making 50% of the players happy... having the picker, pick the variation has potential to make 100% of the players happy.
i think it should be considered more.
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if people think they can earn a slight advantage by picking a certain variation, then so be it, whats the problem with that? is that really a reason to deny the idea?? i mean, its not like the variations are completely different, where you can hardly classify them in the same scheme... your talking either ts, or no ts- shotguns, or not... does it really make that much of a difference?? and attacking from rope, or not... does it really matter? its 30 second shoppa.
lol this is avirex reasoning a point that also happens to be right
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if people think they can earn a slight advantage by picking a certain variation, then so be it, whats the problem with that? is that really a reason to deny the idea?? i mean, its not like the variations are completely different, where you can hardly classify them in the same scheme... your talking either ts, or no ts- shotguns, or not... does it really make that much of a difference?? and attacking from rope, or not... does it really matter? its 30 second shoppa.
lol this is avirex reasoning a point that also happens to be right
lol this is ropa making another useless thread
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"Komo is a great BnGer!" "Wait!! with ts or without ts?" "Oh that yea with ts he sucks"
Excuse me what lol? I will assume you are being sarcastic there...
We need to settle one scheme and stick to that. If 2 players agree on something, then let them play that but one scheme must be declared as official.
Last night we played a BnG cfc Vs TaG, I used the old scheme I used to use, which is the TuS scheme modified to have infinite teleports and infinite shotguns with 1 star power, I didn't specifically mention no using girders as protection, TaG used a girder for protection to make them harder to hit and I actually didn't mind it, it made my follow up shots more impressive :D
Personally speaking, i'd be happy with the current scheme, if /ts was removed, to be honest, the girder thing is kinda growing on me, and infinite shotguns with 1 star power is something almost everybody enjoys.
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i actually think avi has a point.
there are arguments to say that people will pick scheme variations which give them an advantage.. which could be an issue when certain players earn a huge rating in a scheme and then risk losing a those points if they have to play.. nrbng for example.
If you could agree a set of different scheme styles for classic schemes that were accepted i think that would be fair.
I also think the way in which players pick in todays era is totally unfair and a huge advantage to whoever picks second, now a days the picks arn't confirmed before the first game starts and the second picker usually picks after the result of the first game which influences their pick.
If both players pick whatever scheme type/style they want before the first game starts this could be fair. If you refuse that person's pick before the first game starts you just look for another tus.
The community would have to agree to acceptable scheme variations.
for example
ttrr
5 worms
3 worms
roper
20 hp cr8s
25 hp cr8s
differences in time until sudden death.
elite
its amazing and everyone agrees the rules and never to allow rope knocking :)
t17
unlimited girders
7 girders
fb scheme with all equal weapons
tus cr8 percentages
my t17 scheme with more equal cr8 chances but less sd weapons/nanas/cows.
shopper
no afr
afr
cr8 probabilities - (my shopper scheme) allow certain scheme types to include axe, bow (15), homing missle and couple of other weapons.
power on clusters
wxw
similar to above
But back on track, lets just go all agree to classic bng again for next season?? only position is Chelsea and no one can find a complaint around griders
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i want rules for schemes shortest (20min aprox, except ttrr) i hate bng with 200HP, or roper with 10 or 15 min for sd, t17 with 7 girders is enough for games easily over 20 min, hysteria with 10sec is too long
sux play bng, t17 or roper for 30min or more
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Thats actually a good point from Lukz. Sometimes we should see the truth, the real problem. Games over 20 minutes sucking. So the schemes must be easy to play and easy to adapt for newcomers. More under-rules behinding every scheme just makes everything too complicated.
If there is a future for w:a we should make it as easy as we can for newcomers. Those are the future of worms armageddon and also tus.
About BnG. My vote goes to nrbng. Make it simple, make it funny. But thats not cause of me, I dont play tus classic, its just for newcomers the simplest way to get into the big big system of tus. So in other schemes. Just one type of each scheme. And the fastest version of it. T17 with 7 girders and boom boom weapons, and so on.
Yea, thats my little piece of shit. But its just a little sign :)
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Nah sorry, but I don't agree with Lukz here, some people will enjoy longer games if they really enjoy the scheme, look at me, I will happily sit and watch hours of other people playing Darts... And I ain't even playing lol...
This is basically like saying, I don't enjoy that scheme, please make the pain go away faster, how can that possibly be fair for the people who do enjoy it?
Personally speaking, I don't like football, bores me to death, so no way i'd watch 90 minutes of it... Why not make football 10 minutes each half? Well, even though I don't like football, I think 90 minutes is good to give both teams a fair game, playing diff tactics and what not.
Also, regardless of the rules of BnG, it all comes down to how good the players are, if they are on form, games will be faster, if they aren't on form, games will last longer.
Lowering the health of BnG makes it less competitive, it's not uncommon for players to have a horrible start, go behind, then pick up the pace, play better make a well earned comeback, and win, lowering the health ruins this, I love this tenseness of BnG, it's one of the reasons I enjoy clanning.
If the player who hits 1st pushes their opponent, then they move, and get hit again, and again... 200hp is good to give that chance of a crucial shot to turn the game around and have enough HP to last it out to give a fighting chance.
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This league need more activity, sorry but 40min playing bng or whatever is not atractive
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Thid league need more activity, sorry but 40min playing bng ir whatever is not atractive
It is attractive to me, it's attractive to the other people in this thread who support BnG.
Ok, I understand you don't like long BnG matches, you can't enjoy something you don't really like, I can't sit and listen to 2 hours of rock music because I don't really like it, that doesn't mean to say it shouldn't be cut short because some people don't like a long BnG match, this is extremely unfair to ask for this to the people who enjoy it.
I can assure you, BnG is not the reason this League is not as active as it used to be, regardless how long the matches last.
The main reason a BnG will take 30-40 or more minutes is because the players playing it are not skilled enough to hit many shots, so umm, get better, or pick something else?
Many of my 2v2 BnG matches would last around 20 minutes, sometimes faster, sometimes a bit longer, but usually average around 20 minutes, I don't see this as too long, especially when Elite/T17 and Hysteria often last longer than 20 minutes, even WxW can last this long if players don't attack every turn.
What you are asking for is unfair, and to be honest, a little selfish.
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komo, thats all your talking about is bng.. give it a break, lukz said all schemes are too long.. and you know what, he is right... the schemes should take no longer then 20 minutes.. and if they best player in the scheme takes 20 minutes on average to finish a bng, that means the sheme is too long for the average player.. your doing nothing but proving his point, but you dont see that because your too consumed about only talking about bng, regardless where the conversation really leads lol
this is why nothing constructive ever happens.. sure, everyone is making valid points, and some good ideas are thrown around.. but when MI comes here to give a final read, and decide if a chance should be made this is what he sees...
avirex: talking about the picker picks
chicken: just wanting to see bng change, and anything after that... cool
Luks wanting to see the schemes shortened
ropa: being a smart ass, and hoping others find him smart/funny
Komo: wants to talk about bng around any corner.. regardless what anyone else says.. "Luks: schemes are too long.. komo: well thats because you dont like bng, personally i love bng... did i mention i love bng?"
how can things ever change with this miss match banter? it wont
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No avi man, I don't think 20 minutes is too long... 20 minutes is nothing...
LoL, and WoW, and many other games online, can spend waaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer per match, per raid, etc.
WA games are very short.
I feel the other way, if games are too short, they aren't much fun, I am not trying to be annoying about this, it's how I feel.
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No avi man, I don't think 20 minutes is too long... 20 minutes is nothing...
LoL, and WoW, and many other games online, can spend waaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer per match, per raid, etc.
WA games are very short.
I feel the other way, if games are too short, they aren't much fun, I am not trying to be annoying about this, it's how I feel.
that games arent good examples, WoW and LoL had a different metagame with more variats and other rithm, fight games probaly just take 5min or 15 if was bo5, i am speaking about WA, more that 20 min for just get a crate, rope and atack every turn is not fun, and this is worst if you are just throwing nades or zooks of one side at other
and please dont speak of variants, strategy or tactics in roper, wxw, hyst m t17, etc i am not noob
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Lukz, the only thing left is for us to agree to disagree, personally speaking I would prefer even longer games, anyway, back to the original topic.
remove /ts, please :)
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haha, i preffer speak about schemes in general, ur /ts topic just involve 3 or 4 players xD
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haha, i preffer speak about schemes in general, ur /ts topic just involve 3 or 4 players xD
3 or 4 players? I think you need to re-read the thread.
And the thread has title "Re: Experimental season result - bng".
I would recommend opening a new thread if you wish you speak about other schemes.
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I like how the people who historically complained about people debating schemes in a forum are the ones now debating schemes in a forum.
aaah, late bloomers.
too bad you're just going around and around in circles and refuse to see things for what they actually are: the staff here goes with whatever flavour of the month (they will now undergo your changes for the sake of all those paragraphs). However, the problem ain't that. The problem is that when you two get bored, other equally simple minded minions will get it changed back to something else.
Reason for this is that there is no one in the staff with enough credentials to make his own decisions regarding the scheme. What's so hard to understand? A scheme that requires optional fair play will never cut it amongst eastern europeans. It's like hosting a Sumo world cup in Philipinas.
Nrbng was already a thing in FB. The problem was b2b and all that bullshit that refused to understand what was going to happen, and insisted in focusing on how much fun they had counting numbers.
And now it's happened. And tides have turned. And I can't help it but cringe at the sight of this severe lack of perspective.
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i always find avi brings the most logic to these debates and brilliant summaries.
we are just going to go round and round in circles and people are making points which are good but we need some actions. At work in meetings we have a lot of debates but then we make decisions and actions and usually it involves doing some research to justify those actions.
My suggested actions after this thread.
1) remove ts from bng rules.
Although Lukz is saying that only 3-4 players want this removed, so far only Chelsea and someone from che have argued for ts. There is more evidence for the removal of ts from bng from the community and i did some research and presented the games i played where my opponents were happy to play classic bng rules with no ts. Based on this action, Komo would probably be happy to go and find all the bngs since season whatever (when the experimental changes) came into play and watch those bng games and see how many used ts, or how many players have requested ts. Maybe since i got active again i've reintroduced classic bng into tus picks, who knows, but i think the majority want ts out of classic bng and this can be backed up by people posting in this thread as its more than 3-4 players and recent tus bng matches over the past couple of seasons.
2) investigate grider for protection rule
This rule was introduced due to the apparent number of complaints around using a grider, i understand the rule does make less complaints and there are arguments for destroying a grider but in my opinion and a few other bngers its not a great rule. However some players like it and there isn't such a clear case of removing this rule from classic tus bng rules. Ropa brings up a valid point of asking how many bng complaints involved a grider. Therefore why don't we set an action for ropa to research how many bng complaints involved a grider and based on this statistics we can look at next steps to see if we should reconsider this rule? I personally think the number of complaints will be low and this is something that historically mods can usually deal with seeing if the grider was being used to bank a nade. Personally if you use a grider to bounce a grenade of then i see it as legal even if that grider does provide some protection, its just a cheap tactic but not a tactic that breaks the rules.
3) Deciding scheme variations
A separate thread should be created with this thread as a reference where we decide the pros and cons of allowing a league system where certain scheme variations can legally be picked by all players in tus and counted as a league game regardless of players agreeing to the scheme variation. We could go through each scheme, based off the research that KRD did some months ago and decide as a community, even vote on the different scheme variations if we'll legally accept them as a classic game. For example we could go through and list all the difference versions of t17 that we are happy to be accepted, or the difference versions of bng that we are happy to be accepted, but this is a huge task. I for one would not vote in nrbng as an acceptable scheme for bng classic, and MI may not be happy to accept t17 with unlimited griders as a classic version of t17. This is because players have opinions about how much these scheme variations effect the dynamic of the game, and some changes can have a big impact on the style and tactics involved in that scheme. But we should talk about that in another thread and first decide as a community if we are happy for the pick debate to be accepted before we even decide what versions of schemes will be allowed.
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nice post chicken, I especially found the very first part very insightful haha ;D
that's the beauty about 'the picker picking the variation' because then we don't have to debate about the girder rule, or the t17 rules, or any other small rule... the picker picks.. period
all though, obviously we would have to come up with a detailed list of scheme variations that are acceptable... maybe just because it was my idea, I think so highly of it.. but I really believe that it will cause less drama, less debate, less complaints... and ultimately make more people happy... by this time, we all know there is never going to be a scheme that makes everyone happy... so why do we continue to search for it?? its not there!!! just let the picker pick, and hopefully everyone can enjoy it, and deal with it.
Komo: what don't you get man?? lol you do this a lot.. im not sure if you have trouble reading, or just don't bother to read clearly.. I said to you that a lot of scheme are too long, and if the best player in bng (yes im talking about you) takes 20 minutes on average to finish a game, then the average player would take much longer... don't you get that?? and what about 17? that's always roughly 45 minutes.. I agree with Lukz, most schemes are too long. but I also agree with one thing you said komo, if the person likes the scheme, he wont feel like its too long.. because luks thinks roper is too long, and I don't agree with that... so I don't think changing the lengths of schemes will be a good outcome..
ropa: yes, everyone is late bloomers, simple minded minions, with severe lack of perspectives... your a natural born genius, and if more people would listen to your wise words we would all be much better off *rolls eyes*
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I said to you that a lot of scheme are too long, and if the best player in bng (yes im talking about you) takes 20 minutes on average to finish a game, then the average player would take much longer... don't you get that??
So what, people like me and Chicken23 must suffer because other people don't enjoy BnG? Our fun must be cut short for the sake of some others? I don't enjoy playing TTRR, I don't enjoy playing T17, I don't enjoy playing WxW, Shoppa or Elite, but I happily sit by and watch them, you know why? Because I enjoy being in the company of my clanmates and friends, I enjoy showing support to my clan mates, that's what makes the Clanning experience worthwhile, I feel bad for those people whose clanmate will quit the game when they die and not even stay to support them.
avi, we've got along quite fine recently, please don't go back to that old way of arguing over petty things, obviously I can read, obviously I understand what you said, for me 20-40 minutes isn't too long, i'll sit and play Borderlands 2 for like, 12 hours straight, that's long...
The issue really is not time here, the issue is people being able to tolerate the things that others enjoy, the issue is people being selfish.
but I also agree with one thing you said komo, if the person likes the scheme, he wont feel like its too long.. because luks thinks roper is too long, and I don't agree with that... so I don't think changing the lengths of schemes will be a good outcome..
So what, you sort of insult me by saying "im not sure if you have trouble reading" and "or just don't bother to read clearly", then immediately kind of agree with me afterwards?
As for Chicken23s post:
1) I fully support this, and I will happily spend my own time going over previously played games, and doing whatever else it takes to rid BnG of /ts :)
2) Right now I am happy with any girder rule, it doesn't affect how I enjoy BnG weirdly enough...
3) I would rather have 1 scheme and stick to it.
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avi, we've got along quite fine recently, please don't go back to that old way of arguing over petty things, obviously I can read, obviously I understand what you said, for me 20-40 minutes isn't too long, i'll sit and play Borderlands 2 for like, 12 hours straight, that's long...
I have learned that W:A players are typically not traditional gamers, they often just play W:A so any relation to other games is pointless. Yes, 20-40 Minutes per game is a joke. But in W:A perspective 20-40 minutes per game is actually long.
Sorry for off-topic. :-[
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avi, we've got along quite fine recently, please don't go back to that old way of arguing over petty things, obviously I can read, obviously I understand what you said, for me 20-40 minutes isn't too long, i'll sit and play Borderlands 2 for like, 12 hours straight, that's long...
I have learned that W:A players are typically not traditional gamers, they often just play W:A so any relation to other games is pointless. Yes, 20-40 Minutes per game is a joke. But in W:A perspective 20-40 minutes per game is actually long.
Sorry for off-topic. :-[
but
No, I totally disagree with that, I have known a lot of WA gamers who are hardcore gamers, and play other games too, even you, addicted to LoL...
Go to YouTube, and watch the highest rated "Worms Armageddon" videos, which are people who have their own YT gaming channel, who attract many viewers, their games show an average game of WA for a complete noob, and guess what, most of those games are 20-40 minutes long...
So please don't tell me 20-40 minutes is long, when it isn't, the type of game, or type of gamer, is irrelevant to perspective, if someone enjoys something, they will play it for however long it takes, that's the truth...
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whos arguing with you komo?
just letting you know its like talking to a brick wall with you... everyone here knows it, im certainly not the first one to tell you that...
and of course we been getting along, why will that change? I told you about my extreme case of nut sack itch the other night in AG, and you comforted me
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just letting you know its like talking to a brick wall with you... everyone here knows it, im certainly not the first one to tell you that...
Why is that? Because I defend my opinion? What exactly is wrong with what I am saying, am I doing something morally wrong, am I saying things that are plain outright wrong? Am I insulting anyone?
I feel like I am speaking freely with an open mind, open to debate, the funny thing is, I could say the same thing about you, and ropa, and lukz, and several other people, because we are all doing the same thing, repeating information in different words to mean the same thing, sticking by our opinions, if anything it's a sign of integrity, someone who sticks by what they believe in.
I don't agree with your opinion about "picking schemes", you won't change your mind, you keep saying the same thing, lukz thinks schemes are too long, I don't think they are, he keeps saying the same thing, I don't think it's like talking to a brick wall at all, although I could say that because it's the same thing as I am doing...
I've put a lot of effort into spectating games, talking to other people about the rules, I think I deserve a bit more respect for actually trying to do something good here... I ain't doing anything wrong man...
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what about inter in classic? has it also been removed from Classic cuz too long or sth? ONL players are perfectly fine with how long it takes, they even mostly prefer it best of 5 xd
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what about inter in classic? has it also been removed from Classic cuz too long or sth? ONL players are perfectly fine with how long it takes, they even mostly prefer it best of 5 xd
this should go into the scheme thread but a really good point and brings it back to the argument that if you enjoy the scheme you won't care how long it takes.
I used to enjoy br but sometimes they would take over an hour, i also have really enjoyed inter as a competitive league scheme in nnnl and cwt. But there is a point of finding the balance for it in classic league.
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with how long it takes to find an actual league game surely you rather not be done in 20 minutes?
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with how long it takes to find an actual league game surely you rather not be done in 20 minutes?
Lol indeed!
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just letting you know its like talking to a brick wall with you... everyone here knows it, im certainly not the first one to tell you that...
Why is that? Because I defend my opinion? What exactly is wrong with what I am saying, am I doing something morally wrong, am I saying things that are plain outright wrong? Am I insulting anyone?
I feel like I am speaking freely with an open mind, open to debate, the funny thing is, I could say the same thing about you, and ropa, and lukz, and several other people, because we are all doing the same thing, repeating information in different words to mean the same thing, sticking by our opinions, if anything it's a sign of integrity, someone who sticks by what they believe in.
I don't agree with your opinion about "picking schemes", you won't change your mind, you keep saying the same thing, lukz thinks schemes are too long, I don't think they are, he keeps saying the same thing, I don't think it's like talking to a brick wall at all, although I could say that because it's the same thing as I am doing...
I've put a lot of effort into spectating games, talking to other people about the rules, I think I deserve a bit more respect for actually trying to do something good here... I ain't doing anything wrong man...
don't try to derail the thread with your bullshit please.. "am I doing anything morally wrong? I will stand tall, like a true Scott blood that my father raised me to be" or whatever you just said...
komo, debating is fine.. im cool with that, I don't care.. your doing fine, continue..
repeating your point, and defending it, sure we all do it.. in attempts to drive it home, and change others minds... why not??
but facts are facts, and you are like talking to a brick wall when you cant get past facts...
your main point to defend games are not too long is because bng games only take you 20 minutes... I simply said, bad example: your the best in the scheme... komo being komo should have thought that was the greatest thing avirex ever said... but instead the brick wall side of you came back argued... the funny thing is, I was even agreeing with you in the total picture... just trying to make you see you made a bad example... and that's a fact... if the best player in the scheme takes 20 minutes, the average player normally takes twice as long... that not to say either is too long tho... oh just forget it, you will never understand.
ps: I think your morally a good man ;)
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My main 2 point for games not being too long is because to me, firstly, anything under 1 hour isn't long for a game of WA for any scheme, second, if you enjoy it enough the time passes quickly.
However, games can be longer compared to other games, for example, I watched lalo vs Lukz 1v1 BnG few nights ago, it took them 42 minutes, on 1 hand Lukz was PM'n me after saying "42 minutes, see i told you BnG is too long" while on the other hand lalo was admitting the game only lasted so long because they both played like noobs.
I still don't think 42 minutes is long, but it is without a doubt much much longer than usual, in fact, the longest 1v1 competitive BnG i've ever seen, but this doesn't come down to the scheme, this comes down to the players skill.
I dunno man, it seems we will never have a set of schemes that everyone will be truly happy with.
I certainly wouldn't like to have to spend my time doing something I don't enjoy, so I completely understand how bad this can make Lukz feel when someone picks BnG against him and he can't be assed playing.
Aerox makes what I believe is a very strong point, it can sometimes take hours to find a clanner, for it to end so soon is horrible, example, I spent 6 hours waiting in AG looking for a clanner for cfc yesterday morning, I was watching Breaking Bad so not like I was doing nothing, but when we finally got one, I only got 3 turns of a Hysteria then I was dead (poor map/placement), that was just horrible lol, luckily they agreed to play another.
So anyway, MonkeyIsland, if you are reading this, will you remove /ts? Pretty confident we have enough support for this :)
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ok, I have said this game thing... we will never find a scheme that will make everyone happy...
so why are you against the picker picking the variation??? as long as the variations are not crazy, and ridiculous, and as long as there are not like 5 different variations... what are you against??
you want bng to be played the way you want it to be played, but that will leave other people unhappy... I know there are plenty of people that like bng with ts... so you just want to bypass them, and make the scheme to your liking? rather then possibly making everyone happy with the picker picking??
as far as MI saying ppl will just pick the scheme that suits their needs, that's true.. but its already being done.. for instance, I don't enjoy playing bng with /ts but there are times when someone picks bng against me, and I know they don't like /ts, and if I feel they are a stronger player then me, I will make them pick /ts and they cant object... its kind of bullshit, especially if they are the ones who picked the scheme...
so my question to you komo, if you know that we will never have a scheme that everyone agrees with, why would you object to the picker picking the scheme, and just want bng to be played how you like it.. regardless of others wanting it to stay with /ts?
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People wouldn't be happy with your idea. You would actually create some funny drama with it. Like all those ea purists, who will certainly never accept any change to their beloved scheme. There just isn't any way to make this work. You can't say we allow variations only depending on the playerbase of each scheme.
It's a cool idea, I would support it. But its more likely to have an gay governor in Texas than spw going to agree on an elite ropeknock variation.
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well, there is a couple different problems with your post peja..
number 1: ea purist don't have to accept it, they would just have to deal with it if someone picked a variation of elite, just like their opponent will have to deal with it when they pick elite back, but played under their variation.
number 2: I don't think there will be any variation of elite... the rope knock was tested in the experimental season (im not really sure why), I don't think anyone really liked it.. as far as I know, everyone is pretty happy with how elite is, and don't think it will change... Anyway, in order for a variation to be accepted, it should be voted on, and more then 50% approve it... there is not going to be 5+ variations for any scheme... should be no more then 3 per scheme, its not like each member of TUS can have their own variation.
number 3: who cares what SPW agrees on? he does not even play worms.
Anyway, its not like each and every scheme is going to have variations, there is no need for it.. my thoughts are this.
Elite: standard scheme, no variations
ttrr: standard scheme- can pick if its 3 worms, or 5 worms
shoppa: can be discussed, maybe 2 to 3 variations tops
wxw: same.. 2 to 3 variations tops
t17: to be discussed
hysteria: to be discussed
roper: I think its fine (unless we could abolish cr8 rules), but possible variations.
bng: again, has to be discussed, but /ts is the obvious variation.
I don't understand why you think people wouldn't be happy... those who enjoy the current schemes, and they currently work to their benefit would not be happy... for instance, the people who enjoy the /ts in bng, and enjoy having the ultimate decision may not be happy... but why are we catering to those people?? if they want to play bng with /ts, they should pick the scheme. If Chicken23 picks bng, why should his opponent be able to dictate how its played? he's an oldschool player, he should be able to play bng the oldschool way if he chooses, especially when/if he picks the scheme.
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so my question to you komo, if you know that we will never have a scheme that everyone agrees with, why would you object to the picker picking the scheme, and just want bng to be played how you like it.. regardless of others wanting it to stay with /ts?
Right, avi, I don't hate your idea with pickers picking, but i'll never ever vouch for /ts.
1st off, my BnG stats, I put an insane amount of practise and time into making this record possible, I done this before /ts was around, it is a different BnG experience, soooooo, there's that...
But most importantly, what /ts does is take away shot possibilities, which to me is a very bad thing, it certainly does not give anyone an advantage or disadvantage, even with /ts the following shots are pretty easy to me when used in the right situation:
3s impact
3s roller
3s bounceback
3s bank impact
3s bank roller
3s bank impact
3s LG bank
3s LG bank roller
3s LG floorbank
3s LG reverse floorbank
4s roller
4s bounceback
4s bank
4s bank roller
4s bank bounceback
4s LG impact
4s LG bounceback
4s LG roller
4s LG bank impact
4s LG bank bounceback
4s LG bank roller
4s LG floorbank impact
4s LG floorbank trapshot
4s LG reverse floorbank
4s LG reverse floorbank trapshot
4s max bounce bounceback
4s max bounce impact
5s LG impact
5s LG roller
5s LG bounceback
5s LG bank impact
5s LG bank roller
5s LG bank bounceback
5s LG double bank impact
5s LG double bank roller
5s LG double bank bounceback
5s LG floorbank trapshot
5s LG reverse floorbank trapshot
5s max bounce (where it bounces once, around 55-70% distance to target, depending on how far it's going, then blows up on impact)
5s max bounceback (where it goes some distance behind target, then bounces once and comes back and blows on impact)
No wind zook shot like 3s nade
No wind LG zook shot like 4s LG nade
No wind LG zook shot like 5s LG nade
1/2/3/4 bar wind zook.
1/2/3 bar wind curved shot zook.
1/2 bar wind LG zook.
1/2 bar wind LG curved shot zook.
(Higher winds get more difficult depending on positioning of worms/objects)
Most of those grenades have another variation called the transfer shot, it's hard to do, but i've done it at times where it's the only shot that will work, there are other shots too, but I rarely use them and I think you get the point by now...
Remember, most of these shots are impossible to notch, I visualize their every movement, i've thrown so many grenades I know exactly how they act and bounce around with all settings and angles, this may explain why sometimes i'll take so long to shoot, because I am carefully deciding what's the best shot when I am low on angle or opponent is in a very tight hide.
But I still love full power shots, they are simply beautiful, especially when used at the right moment when no other shot can work, however the 2 most important shots in BnG are 3s impact nade and 5s LG impact nades, period.
Seriously, /ts just ruins BnG as far as I am concerned and it needs to f**k off, forever.
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ok, well id hate to break it to ya.. but unless ppl agree to 'picker picks' I don't think that the ts thing will be removed...
some people like it, and that's that.... most importantly, I think MI likes it... so, I doubt its going to change just because you and chicken hate it so much.. there has not been many others that felt strong enough to post here regarding it...
at least with the picker picking rule, you get to pick with no /ts... I find it hard to believe someone is going to pick bng vs. you, so I don't think you need to worry about someone picking a /ts variation... but nothing is impossible..
not trying to make you change your mind, like "either go with picker picks, or you will never get bng without /ts" lol... but its kinda true... bl
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i hate /ts
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some people like it, and that's that.... most importantly, I think MI likes it...
MI posted this:
I don't like /ts myself. (also dislike Test stuff in general)
But I support the new girder rule. It's just more clear and less confusions/drama.
Neutral on shotgun.
so, I doubt its going to change just because you and chicken hate it so much.. there has not been many others that felt strong enough to post here regarding it...
I assume you are exaggerating there? Because I now have around 16 people, including myself, who have stated they don't like /ts or want rid of /ts, who are all mentioned in this thread, Vs 1 person who said they like /ts and another 1 person who said "i like new rules".
But no problem, I will keep trying to gain support on this, /ts needs to get got.
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Didn't you used to love /ts because it was the holy grail against cheap full power 4s? Since I played both variations, unless I missed something, /ts makes it impossible for straight up shots, right? And you can still do cheap shots anyway with proper timing. So it gets rid of 1 angle and makes one thing a little harder. Also, No Rules BnG needs to come back! :D
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When I 1st heard about /ts it seemed like a good idea, I never actually properly tried playing it until recently though.
What I used to really hate was people repeating shots over and over, but now, doesn't bother me as much.
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then maybe perhaps stop basing your arguments on what you personally like? regardless of your bng skill, it's quite clear your tastes go from black to white pretty often
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some people like it, and that's that.... most importantly, I think MI likes it...
MI posted this:
I don't like /ts myself. (also dislike Test stuff in general)
But I support the new girder rule. It's just more clear and less confusions/drama.
Neutral on shotgun.
so, I doubt its going to change just because you and chicken hate it so much.. there has not been many others that felt strong enough to post here regarding it...
I assume you are exaggerating there? Because I now have around 16 people, including myself, who have stated they don't like /ts or want rid of /ts, who are all mentioned in this thread, Vs 1 person who said they like /ts and another 1 person who said "i like new rules".
But no problem, I will keep trying to gain support on this, /ts needs to get got.
sorry, I thought for some reason MI was a fan of /ts... guess I stand corrected, either way... 16 people is not nearly enough to get any change around here, you better keep trying to gain support indeed
you know as well as I do, that getting any kind of changes made in TUS is next to impossible...
and yeah komo, your arguments do change from day to day, and if not day to day, surely month to month!! lol im not trying to bash your here, so please don't take it personal.. but it seeems you jump into debates a lot of times without even giving it full thought.. you just spontaneously pick a side in any debate, and then your too stubborn and thick headed to admit that maybe you were wrong after all...
until a month later when you forget, and then you will be on the complete opposite side of the argument.
I think if we forget this conversation ever happened, and say... Lacoste brings up a "picker picks" topic next month, your will be raving what a fabulous idea it is! ;)
anyway, there is not enough people showing support for the picker picks rule, just chicken, and couple others, cant bother going back to find out.. so obviously that will never happen, im going to stop wasting my time.. and there is not enough people to change the bng scheme... but, if you want to continue to put effort in, I wish you luck. peace
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Imo it needs fix schemes and not a bunch of options how to play a certain scheme, neither that the picker rules the scene. If both players agree to a special sort of scheme, no problem. But the standards should be easy and newcomer-friendly. Too much fuzz is just to complicated.
And for bng the solution is actually simple. No rules, no problem. But without /ts. Komo and all notching lovers can still play their hard learned methods. Freeplayers and newcomers can play like they want and games getting shorter by having no rules in there. And last but not least, less complaints so thats good for all moderators.
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so 5 days left of season...
I think this thread has given enough voters from active players for the removal of /ts from default bng rules.
Also grider for protection rule to be removed...
can we see this updated for season 44??
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NO.
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Why not just make a poll? Straight numbers decision, no need to waste time arguing the pros and cons
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NO.
Sorry but a small handful of players should not get the choice of one of the most well known and oldest schemes from the Worms franchise against the many players who want rid of /ts.
Especially people who don't even like that scheme.
spleen, a vote would be useless, more than 50% of TuS members don't even know what /ts is I guess.
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if you think a vote is useless, then nothing will change komo, you know nothing happens at tus without a vote.
besides, who has been on the side of removing /ts?? im not saying there has not been anyone.. but i dont remember seeing as many as your claiming were there..
why dont you take the time to go through the thread, and find out all those that support removing ts?? if you really wanna be fair, why not also make a list of those who do not support /ts in this thread...
i think its hilarious when there is a fairly important discussion like this going on, and neither MonkeyIsland, or DarkOne ever post here.. hahah, they completely ignore the discussion... lmfao.. always gives me a good lol... bad luck guys.
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if you think a vote is useless, then nothing will change komo, you know nothing happens at tus without a vote.
would you mind to show me examples where rules got changed because of a poll?
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i vote for cancellation of all the changes except for shopper
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if you think a vote is useless, then nothing will change komo, you know nothing happens at tus without a vote.
I never said voting is usless I said a vote would be useless, I never specifically said for the /ts rule but that should be assumed since it's THIS thread.
why dont you take the time to go through the thread, and find out all those that support removing ts?? if you really wanna be fair, why not also make a list of those who do not support /ts in this thread...
I already made a list in this thread.
i think its hilarious when there is a fairly important discussion like this going on, and neither MonkeyIsland, or DarkOne ever post here.. hahah, they completely ignore the discussion... lmfao.. always gives me a good lol... bad luck guys.
Agreed, they always seem to stay away from issues like this, except, I don't find it funny, it's extremely frustrating...
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Hey I posted! Let's shame DarkOne!
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Hey I posted! Let's shame DarkOne!
Lol, MI, what's happening then, can we take away /ts for next season then?
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we've had many pros and cons arguments, i also listed all the bngs i've played in season 41 and 42 where i've bng'd and my opponent has agreed to no /ts.
I think you should base it on numbers and if the majoirity of actual games are played with a certain scheme type then let the rules evolve to use that scheme variation.
A good example would be if people start perferring my balanced t17 scheme and began picking that scheme by themselves and asking other opponents to use that scheme.
With bng im not the only playing requesting to play without /ts.
If i qualify for POs and pick bng i won't play with /ts and we'll have a right situation on our hands cus i've done over 30 or 40 bngs with no /ts but Lukz or Chelsea technically could try to force me to play with /ts when they arn't even bngers... its a silly situation we're in.
i agree with Korydex on all other schemes too!... lets forget experimental season ever existed..
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I think it is a good idea to check played games and decided what scheme was picked the most. But I don't think I can make it for the next season.
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i vote for cancellation of all the changes except for shopper
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I think it is a good idea to check played games and decided what scheme was picked the most. But I don't think I can make it for the next season.
of course you can! Seriously no one uses it expect chelsea and lukz...
i've already shown how many games have not used ts. Even spoon and almog who pick bng as well don't use ts.
This has been nearly 6 months now of trying to get the rules fixed... :( I started this thread on the 15th of november. Yourself and Darkone implement a change of thinking of new rules for schemes without consulting the community and to change back to classic standards shouldn't take 6 months when you implement a big change in such a spontanous way. Its a shame there were no active bngers players in the expertimantal season to fight this when it actually happened.
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if you think a vote is useless, then nothing will change komo, you know nothing happens at tus without a vote.
would you mind to show me examples where rules got changed because of a poll?
ok peja, ill show you that..... right after you show me where i said "rules dont get changed without a poll".
rules have not changed much, for me to give you any example of rules being changed because of a poll, but i can give you plenty of examples of "things" being changed because of a poll...
but as i said, the rules have not change in a quite a while, apart from that "experimental season" which seriously seemed to come out of absolutely nowhere.. the schemes that seemed to be discussed over and over again, were hysteria, and bng... and then the experimental season pops up with ttrr, and elite changes.... i did not, and still do not understand that.
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I think it is a good idea to check played games and decided what scheme was picked the most.
Chicken23 has already done a huge part of this, and if you have actually read this entire thread carefully you will notice some of the games I copied chatlogs from, there are other games I didn't take chat from but maybe I should? I honestly thought we had enough to confirm the deletion of /ts at least...
But I don't think I can make it for the next season.
Why not? Surely it's a simple change?
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I bet lots of tears have been sent through backchannels since the only people against have posted nothing resembling an actual argument.
And yet MI seems to have his hands tied.
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i know there are a lot of people that like /ts when someone is known to notch.
i dont think chicken notches, and who knows wtf komo does tbh... but, for ppl like imp who loves to notches 4 sec. full power, im sure everyone wants to call /ts on him...
thats the point of /ts, and when it came out, a lot of people were all for it...
but now the mandatory /ts has just turned into the preferred scheme when its convenient to people, which is why MI turning down my "the person who picks the scheme, should pick the variation" idea based on people picking variations based on which one will give them advantage is ironic.
honestly, i dont see the big deal in losing the ability to perform 1 shot, and lets face it, that one shot you guys are losing is a notch. and the most simple notch there is... you know the exact power for each wind, and the distance the zook will travel when your aim is pointed straight up... thats notching my friends
which is exactly why /ts was introduced.
anyway, chicken has the best idea, see how many bng's are played with /ts, and see how many bng's are played without... but komo, finding chat logs of ppl saying "wwehhhh i hate /ts" is absolutely pointless, unless your going to post all chat logs of ppl saying "wehhh i hate bng unless its with /ts"
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honestly, i dont see the big deal in losing the ability to perform 1 shot, and lets face it, that one shot you guys are losing is a notch. and the most simple notch there is... you know the exact power for each wind, and the distance the zook will travel when your aim is pointed straight up... thats notching my friends
which is exactly why /ts was introduced.
Full power isn't just 1 shot it's many shots, including shots that can't really be notched, such as banks and double banks with extra bounce (those are shots I use often), there are others too.
I don't know what other people classify notching as and I really don't care, but knowing the exact distance where zook goes aimed straight up is NOT notching, this is something any noob can figure out if they spend even 1 game aiming straight up with low wind zook, firing it full power, and watching where it goes, that is not notching, that's curiosity...
i dont think chicken notches, and who knows wtf komo does tbh... but, for ppl like imp who loves to notches 4 sec. full power, im sure everyone wants to call /ts on him...
I don't think Chicken notches either, but he looks like more of a notcher than any current BnG player because of the way he slowly taps out his aims, but my guess is he doesn't notch because he misses half his shots, and I mean aim, not power.
Who cares about 4s full power grenade? It's a nice shot when used at the right time, but if it's the only shot someone uses, yeah, that's lame, but, VERY EASY to beat someone who plays like this if you are a good player.
And as for me, I aim with memory I guess, like, I know what the cursor/worm looks like with whatever shot I wanna do, and if I miss I just adjust it... Which is why I tend to aim in short bursts of movement.
And why was /ts only used in BnG and no other schemes like Elite/Hysteria/Aerial etc, people can still "notch" crucial shots in those games.
/ts isn't about who notches and who doesn't, it limits the variation of shots you can do, makes games more boring, gives extra fall damage which is stupid, and not being able to aim straight up is silly...
We really have enough support for this, /ts SHOULD be removed, seriously, who knows why MonkeyIsland and DarkOne are ignoring this/delaying it, it's getting very annoying, it shouldn't have been implemented to begin with!
We have been VERY patient, put together detailed posts, and gathered strong support, and still, it seems we get ignored on this issue...
I've seen changes happen overnight on TuS, decisions being made in the heat of things in the past - SO WHY DOES IT TAKE OVER 5 F**KING MONTHS TO CORRECT THE BNG SCHEME?!?!?!?
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Slow and steady. It's still 1 day and 20 hours before next season, so nothing to worry about, right? ;D
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MonkeyIsland, we are still waiting on a response for this, read this carefully:
I WILL NEVER GIVE UP ON THIS, EVER.
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i think he response was, nothing will be done about this in the upcoming season....
maybe in the following season, but he is going to check replays to see which bng variation was more popular in the past seasons...
so its more or less another vote, but in order to cast your vote, you must play TUS bng in the scheme variation your prefer, so get to playing bng komo.... but you have to find people that will accept /ts bng first :D
being /ts is standard as of now. good luck, and happy voting!
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i think he response was, nothing will be done about this in the upcoming season....
Yeah he said probably nothing will be done for next season(44) but it's still dodging the issue, we want a definitive answer about what will happen, not dodging the questions at hand, not delaying them either, OR changing the subject.
but you have to find people that will accept /ts bng first :D
I am sure you mean will accept without lol, but like I told you in our chat earlier, you and chelsea are the only people to try and force /ts, and you seen how far that got you ;)
The facts so far are me and Chicken23 have more evidence, facts and support to prove /ts has been a failure than anyone who supports /ts.
It's honestly a complete shame, and disappointment that MI has dodged this for so long.
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im sure its just more ppl that avoid playing bng with you, without /ts then just me and chelsea.
if me and chelsea were the only people to play bng with /ts, then /ts would already been removed....
the way i see it is, your going to win bng either way... so if you pick bng, and i dont feel like playing, because its comparable to playing ryan in ttrr.... then i might as well refuse to play without /ts, and then i get out of having to play the scheme i hate... its a win/win situation for me.
anyway, forget all that nonsense, komo i already answered your question, what more do you want?? MonkeyIsland answered your question too... your not going to get the answer your looking for YET.. maybe in the future, but for now MI said...
hes going to check replays to see which is more popular, and then make changes in up coming seasons... how is that dodging the questions? delaying them? or changing the subject??? just because you dont like the answer, doesn't mean its dodging the question
ps: stop saying your opinions are facts.
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You and Chelsea are really the only people who have demanded /ts, at least against me.
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So season 44, no ts is needed right?
In season 43 i went through about 1 whole page of games where ts wasn't used. I can carry on watching every game in season 41,42 and 43 to determine the percentage of active players who prefer ts vs no ts but.... it will take me ages. If this is a must i'll start now so we can remove ts forever.
Thanks
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No change for now. But as you said, I don't think you have problem asking to play non-ts BnG.
I gotta code some scripts to analyze all replays of previous seasons.
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No change for now. But as you said, I don't think you have problem asking to play non-ts BnG.
I gotta code some scripts to analyze all replays of previous seasons.
the problem is someone not letting me pick it in POs :o
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I'm surprised if majority actually picks unofficial version of the scheme. Probably many pick/demand BnG with /ts just because it's official rule and they are used to it, not because they think it's better that way ;)
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many people actually use current scheme without ts, so its a hybrid haha.
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No change for now.
Why not? Could you give a detailed explanation please?
But as you said, I don't think you have problem asking to play non-ts BnG.
And what about Playoffs? Can we use a scheme without /ts?
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I'm surprised if majority actually picks unofficial version of the scheme. Probably many pick/demand BnG with /ts just because it's official rule and they are used to it, not because they think it's better that way ;)
avirex and chelsea just pick it to increase their chances at winning at a scheme they know they're worse at.
they couldn't care less about enjoyment or being used to shit, for instance.
makes you think about the quality of the rule to begin with. Makes you wonder if when the staff was approached and told they had an answer for the abuse of 4seconds they considered anything else about the Bng scheme before making such a change for the sake of gratuite and counterproductive.... PROGRESS.
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Well I have seen several people make point that /ts was introduced as a way to stop people abusing 4s nades.
If 4s nades are such a problem, you should make a rule against full power 4s nades, not all full power shots.
MonkeyIsland, really, I am pretty disappointed in the way you've handled this, in my opinion you usually handle all problems swiftly, but you just seem lazy with a complete lack of knowledge about this issue.
This really should be a simple decision, get rid of /ts.
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/ts was never introduced to avoid 4s nades but to make it harder to notch. People knew how to avoid 4s nades and they were always frowned upon, nothing more. The introduction of BnG notching charts, made some people for /ts to make it at least a bit harder.
Note that there are few of you to brought this up, you weren't there where there was another party requesting the opposite. I've already said I'll analyze replays for this. Currently I don't have much free time.
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/ts was never introduced to avoid 4s nades but to make it harder to notch. People knew how to avoid 4s nades and they were always frowned upon, nothing more. The introduction of BnG notching charts, made some people for /ts to make it at least a bit harder.
Well if that's true then it should never have been introduced in the 1st place.
The most commonly notched shots are 4s full power grenades and this is the type of shot i've seen people complain about, and I was around during the peak of BnG activity on TuS.
Aiming straight up with low winds and shooting full power IS NOT NOTCHING, that's just using your memory and eyesight...
The only poeple I have personally seen really abusing a notching system in the past 3-4 years is barman and Mablak, a few people have tried to copy them but have failed, barman and Mablak don't even play WA anymore let alone BnG...
I understand you don't have a lot of time, but surely you can move this higher in your list of priorities now? It's been going on since November last year.
And even using an analyzer isn't fair MI, you should be treating this issue based on the people who play it and care about it, not just how many people are forced to play it because of opponents pick and/or people who play it not even knowing what /ts is:
Probably many pick/demand BnG with /ts just because it's official rule and they are used to it, not because they think it's better that way ;)
I literally haven't seen more than 3 people say something good about /ts, and I have been one of the most active players on WA again since January.
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I'm not sure about Senator's line. Most members are just lazy (even to update their schemes). They just click on their favorite scheme in game. (until some complaints pop up) That's why I need to see what's been going on based on played games.
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I'm not sure about Senator's line. Most members are just lazy (even to update their schemes). They just click on their favorite scheme in game. (until some complaints pop up) That's why I need to see what's been going on based on played games.
Well that actually brings about some good points:
(.)(.) How easy is it for newer players to read/understand invidivual scheme rules? - I struggle to even find them, everything is in different places...
(.)(.) How easy is it for people to obtain updated schemes? - The scheme page sucks, there should be seperate schemes page for League schemes, and explain the differences between different variations of the same scheme, sometimes I have to go through 20 pages just to find scheme I need.
(.)(.) How many people even realized the change in the 1st place? - I mean, I didn't notice it for almost 2 years, granted I was inactive, but I was still playing at least few games every couple months and visiting TuS almost everyday... Being that I am the most fanatical BnG player, and I didn't noice, it wouldn't surprise me if a few other people missed it.
(.)(.) How many people understand the rules or not, and just use whatever scheme they wish anyway? - Like Peja said, most people are using a hybrid scheme, I am, the scheme I use has infinite teleports, 1 girder with no usage restrictions, infinite shotgun and no /ts. I know I am not the only one...
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Schemes in general and the scheme/rules page are a mess, I'd have to agree. I can't find the current rules anywhere.
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oh, it was introduced for something else other than 4 second nades?
then it's even more stupid!
at this point MI, I think you should admit you went ahead with this change without consulting anyone and after a 1on1 conversation with Chelsea, that way, the league gets to keep its reputation, and Chelsea his. But you're telling me this was discussed and no one raised an eyebrow and called it for what it is? useless, unproductive, futile, vain piece of shit rule that accomplishes absolutely nothing (in case my battery of synonyms wasn't enough).
All of you who knew about this change and didn't stop should be life banned from being involved in any decision making regarding Bng, in fact, I'd ban them from talking worms altogether and from being staff of a worms league, if that's what they are, bunch of idiots really.
See all those bad words? All those offenses, lack of f@#!ing respect? I'll take it all back, apologize and admit to be an out of line arrogant pizzasheet if any of the people that were in favor (or not against) the incorporation of this rule, to argument how it has been productive at all. Because as it stands, the rule only serves as a gimmick tool for idiots to increase their chances of winning games without ever learning how to play bng.
Thank you for that, another scheme you can add to the list of schemes you've ruined by being clueless and careless. Remember the first time you banned me from this site? I was making unfunny jokes about this same thing happening. Almost a decade ago.
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Komo, you weren't there when the changes were happening. You had stormed out after a bad BnG clanner, remember? Some time later I was dealing with the league players and requests. As I said I'll post the results when they are ready.
Ropa, if you want to sit around and give out brilliant ideas and expect people to listen and take notes, you gotta earn that position. So far, after being a W:A fossil, you've earned being one of *THE* most useless wormers around. Not only you haven't done any progress, you have had a negative effect on this community.
A decade ago, you were creating multiple accounts, posting nonsense on a newbie site to mock, remember? That was the reason you were banned. The level of illusion you are in, just baffles me. I have no words, seriously how deep one's head can go into his own ass?
Deja vu, ropa. You're banned for the 4th time. (Hey time to create multiple accounts and post unfunny jokes?)
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hi MI, I like ur posts :-* now come play clanners mofo ;p
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Komo, you weren't there when the changes were happening. You had stormed out after a bad BnG clanner, remember? Some time later I was dealing with the league players and requests. As I said I'll post the results when they are ready.
I wasn't there when the changes were happening, but I was there before and I am here now, and I know what is best for this scheme trust me.
1 big thing that really bothers me, the title "experimental season", which technically means a trial season, I may not have been around to witness the feedback from that but I can clearly see all the feedback from the previous 5-6 months have not been in support of this trial season, in fact all facts seem to point it was a huge failure, especially BnG.
I don't understand why you need to take so much time to make this decision, it feels like there is something you won't tell us, I know you are busy and you want to be fair, I respect you because you've helped me a lot setting up communities and fixing problems here and there, but I really can't understand why you can't see the solution here is simple.
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komo, just because your not getting instant gratification on what you want, does not mean MI is moving slower then normal..
this is MI pace regarding everything, your lucky you even got him to post here...
he has said 5 times that he is going to check replays, and see which variation is more popular, i don't know what else you want him to say... well.. yes i do..
you want him to say "ok komo, your the bng god, and if you think bng should be played without /ts, then thats what is going to happen... starting RIGHT NOW all bng's will be played with out /ts, anyone caught using /ts can, and will be banned, i am here by giving komito the powers to ban all players that do not comply!"
lol thats not gonna happen, just be patient, and let him review replays.
is ropa really banned? awesome! i been waiting for this day.
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avi, why must you always refer to my talents in BnG? How good I am has NOTHING to do with what we(yes we, cuz it isn't just me) want here.
Replays won't show which variation is more popular, here are some reasons why:
The newer generation don't even know history of BnG, or other schemes, it isn't fair judgement.
People who read the rules and study scheme settings but don't care about BnG as a specialized scheme will use the default, not because of opinion, but because it's the rules, again, this would be unfair.
People who don't read rules and study scheme settings and new changes since /ts will play with whatever scheme they already have.
Most of the people who give a damn about BnG are crying out for /ts to be removed but again this could be overlooked because of players who have no knowledge and play with default scheme anyway.
That would be my guess but with the evidence Chicken showed to me it looks like the majority of games have actually been played without /ts, hopefully anyway.
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didnt you just get done saying how no one can find the schemes, or the rules?? now your saying everyone is studying and hosting bng games according to them??
anyways.... who cares, let MI check the damn replays, nothing is going to be done until he checks the replays...
after he does that, you, yourself, and komo (that is the we, right?) can continue to rant.
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didnt you just get done saying how no one can find the schemes, or the rules?? now your saying everyone is studying and hosting bng games according to them??
I never said no one can't, I said I can't lol, and some others can't.
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http://www.esl.eu/eu/wa/1on1/fight_club_04/forum/2251/19293/796463/
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Why can't you find the rules of schemes? This is what I did:
Click on Leagues (most logically location of rules), click on scheme rules, pick bng and read the rules. Easy life?
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Why can't you find the rules of schemes? This is what I did:
Click on Leagues (most logically location of rules), click on scheme rules, pick bng and read the rules. Easy life?
Because there has been a history of rule changes and scheme changes, the experimental rule changes are in a seperate thread, the rules for the classic BnG scheme and the new one are different I couldn't even find the new BnG scheme.
On the top of the TuS site there is:
Home - Calendar - Forums - Groups - Leagues - Cups - Tournaments - Challenges - Maps - Schemes - Files - Awards - Donate
^^ But no Rules... Rules should be added here, which cover EVERY SINGLE rule on TuS, for all leagues and schemes, that cover everything anyone could possibly wonder.
The most logical location would be something that states "rules" on the main page somewhere, not after clicking 2-3 links... You know I am right.
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In all honesty, technically TUS is a community site primarily with a league added to it. It has a map/scheme database that is incredible rich, it has forums, challenges and cups and obviously also a league. So yeah, if you believe TUS is just a league then you are wrong and it is perfectly fine for the front page to not have the rules because rules are a subcategory of the league sections.
Still in doubt? This is the introduction to TUS:
Welcome!
The Ultimate Site aka TUS is a website dedicated to the game Worms:Armageddon created by Team17. It contains almost anything related to W:A from leagues and competitive games to maps and other goodies to download. Most of these parts on TUS are linked together and have a relationship with each other.
TUS has grown with ideas suggested by its members. This is kinda our routine to increase the quality of this website by implementing ideas. We welcome newbies as much as oldschoolers. If you are new to this website, don't hesitate to introduce yourself. Checkout our forums!
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Well you are wrong, because TuS used to be TuT - The ultimate Tournament, was a website that ran lots of Tournaments, I used to host a lot there before MI took over, CF loved my JpBnG Tournaments ask JohnMclane.
It's always been competitive based.
Edit: Either way, people mainly use TuS to compete against each other, the rules should be clear on the home page.
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Yeah Kai, the rules on the BnG scheme page aren't the current rules. The current ones are hidden somewhere in a forum thread.
I'm just trying to say TUS needs a little maintenance, I know MI doesn't have a lot of time nowadays (and I understand that very well) but this site sure as hell could use an upgrade in terms of organization.
And I don't know what you're trying to say with that post vesuvio. So I pasted the rules in the ESL forums 5 years ago, now what? :o
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huh i read someone was finding it hard to find bng rules. i just put a link with bng rules in =D
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If I'm lucky, I get to check TUS once a day. If one of you is kind enough to maintain the rules, I'll update them right after. I apologize for my inactivity. I'm doing my best to get back active, even in the leagues to play myself.
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If I'm lucky, I get to check TUS once a day. If one of you is kind enough to maintain the rules, I'll update them right after.
What exactly do you mean by "maintain the rules"?
On another note, I can't do any programming but if there is anything else that I could help with around TuS let me know, I am probably the most active person on TuS, I check TuS several times everyday.
I apologize for my inactivity. I'm doing my best to get back active, even in the leagues to play myself.
No need to be sorry, if you busy with other work or stuff then it must be a good thing :)
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Komo, you have a very hard time admitting when your wrong...
Anubis made it very clear where the rules are, Click "Leagues" (which is what you want the rules to, correct??? i mean.. your not looking for the forum rules are you? or the Cups rules?? or Maps/schemes/etc. uploading rules and regulations, ae? you want the Leagues rules right?) then you click scheme rules....
Anubis is absolutely right, this site is a base hub for W:A, and just so happens to have a league involved in it... if you want rules to the site, that would be a link you would find on the first page... but thats irrelevant, no? If you want the rules to the league, they are where they should be.
Darkz is right though, its not a matter of where they are, its 'what' they are... they are incomplete, vague, and out dated. but, not really by any fault of MonkeyIsland, other then he does not ever ask for help.
Monkey, no one knows what to help you with, if you dont ask ;P im sure there are plenty of people that would pitch in with things they can get involved in!! It may even give komo something to do rather then find debates! ;)
Komo: "What exactly do you mean by "maintain the rules"? "
what he means is, write up a current, and up to date rule page for each scheme, copy and past the text to him, he can proof read, verify the rules are correct (and not the komo variation of them) and then next time he is updating the site, its just a simple copy and paste for him.
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awesome, you guys are still discussing :o
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its funny how avirex and komo switched their amount of words per post :D
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haha, true
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*yawn*
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MonkeyIsland, please, do not reply with "Not now" "I'll think about it" "I need to do this first" etc.
Can we have an E.T.A on an actual decision here please? When will you analyze these games?
Do you really need to analyze games? Given all the evidence in this thread, if you have actually taken the time to read every single post thorougly, you should know that analysis of played games shouldn't be the defining factor for this rule.
It's been 32 days since you suggested checking games, and so far show no signs of doing so, I am not having a go at you, this is something I am passionate and I only want action as soon as possible.
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Komo, if you have actually taken the time to read every single post thorougly he said on several occasions it would be next seasons at the earliest...
he has dedicated an entire webpage with-in TUS for the E.T.A.
here it is. https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/seasons-info/
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It depends how you perceive this:
I think it is a good idea to check played games and decided what scheme was picked the most. But I don't think I can make it for the next season.
Because I had just asked this:
Lol, MI, what's happening then, can we take away /ts for next season then?
As far as I am aware he was answering my question about when we can remove /ts, not giving a deadline on analyzing games.
Thanks for not paying attention as usual though ;)
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Actually I have ran the scan.
Season #40:
63 out of 183 BnG matches were played with ts. 34%
Season #41:
26 out of 93 BnG matches were played with ts. 28%
Season #42:
21 out of 93 BnG matches were played with ts. 22%
Season #43:
8 out of 92 BnG matches were played with ts. 9%
All seasons less than half were played with ts and ts has an increasing drop. When the update of the scheme rules is finished, I'll do the announcement and remove the ts from the scheme rules.
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That's awesome MI, thank you for taking the time to do it, but wow... I thought /ts was used a bit more than that, I was actually quite anxious to find out the results.
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hoooray!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Komo, its not that i was not paying attention "as usual", its just that you keep asking the same questions over and over, and keep getting the same answers over and over. and i answered one question, to your 2 part question.
"Can we have an E.T.A on an actual decision here please? When will you analyze these games?"
MonkeyIsland has now analyzed games, you got the results you were hoping for, i hope that helps you sleep better at night..
So please stop bumping this thread with the same question, you know the outcome of his analyze, and you know things will change in the next season. ok? the E.T.A is next season, stop asking :D
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Komo, its not that i was not paying attention "as usual", its just that you keep asking the same questions over and over, and keep getting the same answers over and over. and i answered one question, to your 2 part question.
LOL if you say so ;)