Experimental season result - bng

[TheKomodo]

with how long it takes to find an actual league game surely you rather not be done in 20 minutes?

Lol indeed!

[avirex]

just letting you know its like talking to a brick wall with you... everyone here knows it, im certainly not the first one to tell you that...

Why is that? Because I defend my opinion? What exactly is wrong with what I am saying, am I doing something morally wrong, am I saying things that are plain outright wrong? Am I insulting anyone?

I feel like I am speaking freely with an open mind, open to debate, the funny thing is, I could say the same thing about you, and ropa, and lukz, and several other people, because we are all doing the same thing, repeating information in different words to mean the same thing, sticking by our opinions, if anything it's a sign of integrity, someone who sticks by what they believe in.

I don't agree with your opinion about "picking schemes", you won't change your mind, you keep saying the same thing, lukz thinks schemes are too long, I don't think they are, he keeps saying the same thing, I don't think it's like talking to a brick wall at all, although I could say that because it's the same thing as I am doing...

I've put a lot of effort into spectating games, talking to other people about the rules, I think I deserve a bit more respect for actually trying to do something good here... I ain't doing anything wrong man...

don't try to derail the thread with your bullshit please..   "am I doing anything morally wrong? I will stand tall, like a true Scott blood that my father raised me to be" or whatever you just said...

komo, debating is fine.. im cool with that, I don't care.. your doing fine, continue..

repeating your point, and defending it, sure we all do it.. in attempts to drive it home, and change others minds... why not??

but facts are facts, and you are like talking to a brick wall when you cant get past facts...

your main point to defend games are not too long is because bng games only take you 20 minutes... I simply said, bad example: your the best in the scheme... komo being komo should have thought that was the greatest thing avirex ever said... but instead the brick wall side of you came back argued...   the funny thing is, I was even agreeing with you in the total picture...  just trying to make you see you made a bad example... and that's a fact... if the best player in the scheme takes 20 minutes, the average player normally takes twice as long... that not to say either is too long tho... oh just forget it, you will never understand.

ps: I think your morally a good man

[TheKomodo]

My main 2 point for games not being too long is because to me, firstly, anything under 1 hour isn't long for a game of WA for any scheme, second, if you enjoy it enough the time passes quickly.

However, games can be longer compared to other games, for example, I watched lalo vs Lukz 1v1 BnG few nights ago, it took them 42 minutes, on 1 hand Lukz was PM'n me after saying "42 minutes, see i told you BnG is too long" while on the other hand lalo was admitting the game only lasted so long because they both played like noobs.

I still don't think 42 minutes is long, but it is without a doubt much much longer than usual, in fact, the longest 1v1 competitive BnG i've ever seen, but this doesn't come down to the scheme, this comes down to the players skill.

I dunno man, it seems we will never have a set of schemes that everyone will be truly happy with.

I certainly wouldn't like to have to spend my time doing something I don't enjoy, so I completely understand how bad this can make Lukz feel when someone picks BnG against him and he can't be assed playing.

Aerox makes what I believe is a very strong point, it can sometimes take hours to find a clanner, for it to end so soon is horrible, example, I spent 6 hours waiting in AG looking for a clanner for cfc yesterday morning, I was watching Breaking Bad so not like I was doing nothing, but when we finally got one, I only got 3 turns of a Hysteria then I was dead (poor map/placement), that was just horrible lol, luckily they agreed to play another.

So anyway, MonkeyIsland, if you are reading this, will you remove /ts? Pretty confident we have enough support for this

[avirex]

ok, I have said this game thing... we will never find a scheme that will make everyone happy...

so why are you against the picker picking the variation??? as long as the variations are not crazy, and ridiculous, and as long as there are not like 5 different variations... what are you against??

you want bng to be played the way you want it to be played, but that will leave other people unhappy... I know there are plenty of people that like bng with ts... so you just want to bypass them, and make the scheme to your liking? rather then possibly making everyone happy with the picker picking??

as far as MI saying ppl will just pick the scheme that suits their needs, that's true.. but its already being done.. for instance, I don't enjoy playing bng with /ts but there are times when someone picks bng against me, and I know they don't like /ts, and if I feel they are a stronger player then me, I will make them pick /ts and they cant object... its kind of bullshit, especially if they are the ones who picked the scheme...

so my question to you komo, if you know that we will never have a scheme that everyone agrees with, why would you object to the picker picking the scheme, and just want bng to be played how you like it.. regardless of others wanting it to stay with /ts?

[Peja]

People wouldn't be happy with your idea. You would actually create some funny drama with it. Like all those ea purists, who will certainly never accept any change to their beloved scheme. There just isn't any way to make this work. You can't say we allow variations only depending on the playerbase of each scheme. 
 
It's a cool idea, I would support it.  But its more likely to have an gay governor in Texas than spw going to agree on an elite ropeknock variation.

[avirex]

well, there is a couple different problems with your post peja..

number 1: ea purist don't have to accept it, they would just have to deal with it if someone picked a variation of elite, just like their opponent will have to deal with it when they pick elite back, but played under their variation.

number 2: I don't think there will be any variation of elite... the rope knock was tested in the experimental season (im not really sure why), I don't think anyone really liked it.. as far as I know, everyone is pretty happy with how elite is, and don't think it will change... Anyway, in order for a variation to be accepted, it should be voted on, and more then 50% approve it... there is not going to be 5+ variations for any scheme... should be no more then 3 per scheme, its not like each member of TUS can have their own variation.

number 3: who cares what SPW agrees on? he does not even play worms.

Anyway, its not like each and every scheme is going to have variations, there is no need for it..  my thoughts are this.

Elite: standard scheme, no variations
ttrr: standard scheme- can pick if its 3 worms, or 5 worms
shoppa: can be discussed, maybe 2 to 3 variations tops
wxw: same.. 2 to 3 variations tops
t17:  to be discussed
hysteria: to be discussed
roper: I think its fine (unless we could abolish cr8 rules), but possible variations.
bng: again, has to be discussed, but /ts is the obvious variation.

I don't understand why you think people wouldn't be happy... those who enjoy the current schemes, and they currently work to their benefit would not be happy... for instance, the people who enjoy the /ts in bng, and enjoy having the ultimate decision may not be happy... but why are we catering to those people?? if they want to play bng with /ts, they should pick the scheme. If Chicken23 picks bng, why should his opponent be able to dictate how its played? he's an oldschool player, he should be able to play bng the oldschool way if he chooses, especially when/if he picks the scheme.

[TheKomodo]

so my question to you komo, if you know that we will never have a scheme that everyone agrees with, why would you object to the picker picking the scheme, and just want bng to be played how you like it.. regardless of others wanting it to stay with /ts?

Right, avi, I don't hate your idea with pickers picking, but i'll never ever vouch for /ts.

1st off, my BnG stats, I put an insane amount of practise and time into making this record possible, I done this before /ts was around, it is a different BnG experience, soooooo, there's that...

But most importantly, what /ts does is take away shot possibilities, which to me is a very bad thing, it certainly does not give anyone an advantage or disadvantage, even with /ts the following shots are pretty easy to me when used in the right situation:

3s impact
3s roller
3s bounceback
3s bank impact
3s bank roller
3s bank impact
3s LG bank
3s LG bank roller
3s LG floorbank
3s LG reverse floorbank

4s roller
4s bounceback
4s bank
4s bank roller
4s bank bounceback
4s LG impact
4s LG bounceback
4s LG roller
4s LG bank impact
4s LG bank bounceback
4s LG bank roller
4s LG floorbank impact
4s LG floorbank trapshot
4s LG reverse floorbank
4s LG reverse floorbank trapshot
4s max bounce bounceback
4s max bounce impact

5s LG impact
5s LG roller
5s LG bounceback
5s LG bank impact
5s LG bank roller
5s LG bank bounceback
5s LG double bank impact
5s LG double bank roller
5s LG double bank bounceback
5s LG floorbank trapshot
5s LG reverse floorbank trapshot
5s max bounce (where it bounces once, around 55-70% distance to target, depending on how far it's going, then blows up on impact)
5s max bounceback (where it goes some distance behind target, then bounces once and comes back and blows on impact)

No wind zook shot like 3s nade
No wind LG zook shot like 4s LG nade
No wind LG zook shot like 5s LG nade
1/2/3/4 bar wind zook.
1/2/3 bar wind curved shot zook.
1/2 bar wind LG zook.
1/2 bar wind LG curved shot zook.
(Higher winds get more difficult depending on positioning of worms/objects)


Most of those grenades have another variation called the transfer shot, it's hard to do, but i've done it at times where it's the only shot that will work, there are other shots too, but I rarely use them and I think you get the point by now...

Remember, most of these shots are impossible to notch, I visualize their every movement, i've thrown so many grenades I know exactly how they act and bounce around with all settings and angles, this may explain why sometimes i'll take so long to shoot, because I am carefully deciding what's the best shot when I am low on angle or opponent is in a very tight hide.

But I still love full power shots, they are simply beautiful, especially when used at the right moment when no other shot can work, however the 2 most important shots in BnG are 3s impact nade and 5s LG impact nades, period.

Seriously, /ts just ruins BnG as far as I am concerned and it needs to f**k off, forever.

[avirex]

ok, well id hate to break it to ya.. but unless ppl agree to 'picker picks' I don't think that the ts thing will be removed...

some people like it, and that's that.... most importantly, I think MI likes it... so, I doubt its going to change just because you and chicken hate it so much.. there has not been many others that felt strong enough to post here regarding it...

at least with the picker picking rule, you get to pick with no /ts... I find it hard to believe someone is going to pick bng vs. you, so I don't think you need to worry about someone picking a /ts variation... but nothing is impossible..

not trying to make you change your mind, like "either go with picker picks, or you will never get bng without /ts" lol... but its kinda true...  bl

[ANO]

i hate /ts

[TheKomodo]

some people like it, and that's that.... most importantly, I think MI likes it...

MI posted this:

I don't like /ts myself. (also dislike Test stuff in general)
But I support the new girder rule. It's just more clear and less confusions/drama.
Neutral on shotgun.

so, I doubt its going to change just because you and chicken hate it so much.. there has not been many others that felt strong enough to post here regarding it...

I assume you are exaggerating there? Because I now have around 16 people, including myself, who have stated they don't like /ts or want rid of /ts, who are all mentioned in this thread, Vs 1 person who said they like /ts and another 1 person who said "i like new rules".

But no problem, I will keep trying to gain support on this, /ts needs to get got.

[Anubis]

Didn't you used to love /ts because it was the holy grail against cheap full power 4s? Since I played both variations, unless I missed something, /ts makes it impossible for straight up shots, right? And you can still do cheap shots anyway with proper timing. So it gets rid of 1 angle and makes one thing a little harder. Also, No Rules BnG needs to come back!

[TheKomodo]

When I 1st heard about /ts it seemed like a good idea, I never actually properly tried playing it until recently though.

What I used to really hate was people repeating shots over and over, but now, doesn't bother me as much.

[Aerox]

then maybe perhaps stop basing your arguments on what you personally like? regardless of your bng skill, it's quite clear your tastes go from black to white pretty often

[avirex]

some people like it, and that's that.... most importantly, I think MI likes it...

MI posted this:

I don't like /ts myself. (also dislike Test stuff in general)
But I support the new girder rule. It's just more clear and less confusions/drama.
Neutral on shotgun.

so, I doubt its going to change just because you and chicken hate it so much.. there has not been many others that felt strong enough to post here regarding it...

I assume you are exaggerating there? Because I now have around 16 people, including myself, who have stated they don't like /ts or want rid of /ts, who are all mentioned in this thread, Vs 1 person who said they like /ts and another 1 person who said "i like new rules".

But no problem, I will keep trying to gain support on this, /ts needs to get got.

sorry, I thought for some reason MI was a fan of /ts... guess I stand corrected, either way... 16 people is not nearly enough to get any change around here, you better keep trying to gain support indeed

you know as well as I do, that getting any kind of changes made in TUS is next to impossible...

and yeah komo, your arguments do change from day to day, and if not day to day, surely month to month!! lol im not trying to bash your here, so please don't take it personal.. but it seeems you jump into debates a lot of times without even giving it full thought.. you just spontaneously pick a side in any debate, and then your too stubborn and thick headed to admit that maybe you were wrong after all...

until a month later when you forget, and then you will be on the complete opposite side of the argument.

I think if we forget this conversation ever happened, and say... Lacoste brings up a "picker picks" topic next month, your will be raving what a fabulous idea it is!

anyway, there is not enough people showing support for the picker picks rule, just chicken, and couple others, cant bother going back to find out.. so obviously that will never happen, im going to stop wasting my time.. and there is not enough people to change the bng scheme... but, if you want to continue to put effort in, I wish you luck. peace

[SPW]

Imo it needs fix schemes and not a bunch of options how to play a certain scheme, neither that the picker rules the scene. If both players agree to a special sort of scheme, no problem. But the standards should be easy and newcomer-friendly. Too much fuzz is just to complicated.

And for bng the solution is actually simple. No rules, no problem. But without /ts. Komo and all notching lovers can still play their hard learned methods. Freeplayers and newcomers can play like they want and games getting shorter by having no rules in there. And last but not least, less complaints so thats good for all moderators.