Quote from: DarkOne on February 20, 2013, 06:53 PM

Quote from: Free on February 20, 2013, 04:50 PM

I mean look at Casso's streak, by my understanding, if Hysteria is such a skilled scheme as community thinks, an average player like myself should not even get close to 40% in 2 weeks.

Wasn't the point you're trying to make that hysteria isn't a skilled game?

For seeing the trouble and putting in the time to study for being a doctor, you don't seem to be that smart. What exactly you don't get with my previous post?

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on February 20, 2013, 03:29 PM
As a matter of fact, I did. I was wondering if Free would take the challenge and get 40% win against 3 top hysteria players

1 should get the point across if I make it. I'm not gonna torture myself more than needed. I really HATE playing hysteria.

I mean look at Casso's streak, by my understanding, if Hysteria is such a skilled scheme as community thinks, an average player like myself should not even get close to 40% in 2 weeks.

What makes it even more interesting is the replays those games are gonna portrait. If someone finds the scheme "exciting" after those, he's been living in some cave.

Damn, can't watch this with my old patch, but there was similar "scheme" hosted by some NNN guy, where you used Inter scheme but the idea was the same. It was really funny and very tactical at the same time. One of those "why didn't I think of this" out-of-the-box ideas.

SUOMI PERKELE

Cheers barman.

Quote from: DarkOne on February 13, 2013, 01:07 PM
Twisting your words, Free? I literally quoted you, you can look it up. It's not my fault you're not making sense.
MI predicted you'd respond to the results of the poll like this. Well, that and a few other comments that haven't been made yet Let's see if those will still come with time, though.

Quote from: Free on February 13, 2013, 06:18 AM
I can't see anything constructive coming out of this thread anymore.

Because you discard every constructive comment ever posted if they don't fit your view that Free's opinion is fact.

Yes, I was talking about I dont see value hosting cups because none of the cups hosted so far around changing hysteria hasn't done anything to chance Hysteria as CLASSIC scheme, and then you bring up how changes were made in TUS.

And what does my reaction to the poll have to do with anything? Even an idiot could predict the poll results as Hyst is the most popular scheme, it still doesn't mean that there's something very wrong with the scheme.

I don't see anything constructive coming out of this thread because half of the posts are flame, and my challenge wasn't accepted even though even Casso suggested there's no way I can come up with 40% win ratio in few weeks so I don't want to torture myself with the scheme any more than I really need to.

Also, you still dodged my question which I asked twice already and there has been no opinions on what about making a separate Hysteria league and how it would perhaps benefit the majority of TUS players = Reason why I, personally, don't see anything constructive coming out of this thread anymore, not because of your deeply thought psychologic analysis.

Darkz said it the best IMO, and I rest my case.

Quote from: darKz on February 12, 2013, 03:47 PM
Disclaimer: The following text may cause heart failure for Hysteria fanboys. I won't pay your ambulance fees!

Hysteria got put into classic league after a poll with a 56% majority voting for the scheme. Back then nobody really knew what competitive Hysteria looked like because at that time nobody had played it that way. Now, a good 4 years and numerous complaints by oldschool wormers (who have actually played it, I may add) later the scheme still persists. "Because it's popular".

I won't deny that there's a certain skillset which one needs to stand on top of the Hysteria rankings. However when it comes to the top of the ladder duking it out among each other, there are games in which both players are in a 1vs1 stalemate position where they would hypothetically teleport around the map for all eternity because they both can't get a shot at the other. Usually this cycle is ended by one of the two losing their patience, teleporting to either an open spot where the other player can get a shot at him, or to a spot which provides protection but no chance to actually shoot. In the latter case the other player will just enforce SD so the hidden player will have to teleport to some open place on top eventually. Either way it's a loss-loss situation and could be avoided by just continuing to teleport around in the aforementioned cycle and waiting for the other player to lose patience first.

I don't expect anyone to actually read and understand this but I've seen several situations like this, the scheme is just not suited for high level competitive play.
Random00 is a really good overall player and has this winning mentality, he never gives up. That's part of the reason why he's on top of the Hysteria standings, he lets others do the mistake before he does it himself. And that Maverick guy has a winning percentage that high because he mostly played complete newbies who lack general knowledge about the game.

I won't bother looking up games or providing any other kind of proof btw, my words make perfect sense if you just let them get through to you and if you've played the scheme on a decently high level. Not gonna bother with Komos incoming wall of text either. (Just let this stand as my opinion rather than facts if it makes you happier Komo, it's obviously something only very few people can see.)

And to this quote I stop posting in this thread that proved to be rather f@#!ing pointless, once again, so much off topic and flame. It's simply pissing me off too much to keep posting, I can't see anything constructive coming out of this thread anymore. Hysteria is really flawed as a competitive scheme but none of our oldschoolers opinions matter because "it's too popular" and there's no consideration even for separate Hysteria league, which could actually be a REALLY good thing. My challenge wasn't good enough to MI.

Quote from: DarkOne on February 12, 2013, 07:42 PM

Quote from: Free on February 12, 2013, 05:40 PM
I just don't see any value in hosting bunch of cups or tourneys to get a simple point across, has your hosting done anything to modify HYSTERIA as a classic scheme. No, we got Aerial, which ain't a classic scheme, which imo would be a better scheme for classic than hysteria.

Wow, you just literally said that because I did something (hosting a couple of cups), something changed in TUS.

Quote from: Free on February 12, 2013, 05:40 PMI simply don't see value based on time wasted trying to get the point across[...]

And now you say the complete opposite.

Quote from: Free on February 12, 2013, 05:40 PM[...]I seee more value trying to approach the situation like this.

How is it working out for you so far? 15 pages of rambling and the poll says 26 for keeping hysteria and 22 for ditching hysteria so far.

You been twisting my words for quite few posts already, you keep saying something changed in TUS when I CLEARLY said that nothing has changed in classic league when it comes to Hysteria.

Quote from: DarkOne on February 12, 2013, 07:42 PM

Quote from: Free on February 12, 2013, 05:40 PM
I just don't see any value in hosting bunch of cups or tourneys to get a simple point across, has your hosting done anything to modify HYSTERIA as a classic scheme. No, we got Aerial, which ain't a classic scheme, which imo would be a better scheme for classic than hysteria.

Wow, you just literally said that because I did something (hosting a couple of cups), something changed in TUS.

Quote from: Free on February 12, 2013, 05:40 PMI simply don't see value based on time wasted trying to get the point across[...]

And now you say the complete opposite.

Quote from: Free on February 12, 2013, 05:40 PM[...]I seee more value trying to approach the situation like this.

How is it working out for you so far? 15 pages of rambling and the poll says 26 for keeping hysteria and 22 for ditching hysteria so far.

I mean the challenge unless it already aint the MOST OBVIOUS THING? I dont care about polls (most voters are beginners/average players with not enough experience) as I already mentioned there should be an carefully selected council to make the decisision considering schemes/rules.

LOL @ "The poll is to shut him up", I would approach this topic with poll in mind if I thought it had any chance to win, but as the majority (beginners/average playes) are hyst lovers and only care about hyst, I'm not stupid to take that route. The challenge is to show how little skill you actually need to "master" the scheme and how stupid the scheme really looks when you force effective gameplay.

You could answer my question D1, do you, or do you not think that majority of TUS Hysteria players only want to play hysteria? If you agree with me, then why having a separate league for Hysteria only would be a bad idea? It would not downgrade the activity and we would probably end up majority being more satisfied than before. At least we could give it a try for 1 season and see what truly happens to the activity.

I like the general idea of letting everybody have a vote, but by observing this community I'm more in a favor of an council that agrees on schemes/rules.

I could say the same thing zipper, I'm pissed that you guys only think about the popularity instead the top players wanting to have the most balanced schemes possible.

JUST LET THE HYSTERIA FANS HAVE THEIR FUN HYSTERIA LEAGUE, pretty f@#!ing simple solution to a problem that OBVIOUSLY bugs people, otherwise we wouldn't have this much discussion about this during these years.

Quote from: DarkOne on February 12, 2013, 04:43 PM

Quote from: Free on February 12, 2013, 07:19 AM
Why doesn't anyone see the sentences where I suggest that let hysteria have its own league or lets modify the scheme?

Wow, dude. I've told you at least 4 times to DO something, which included CREATING AN ALTERNATIVE, HOSTING CUPS/TOURNEYS, HOSTING FUNNERS WITH THIS ALTERNATIVE. Perhaps you will read it if I write in caps?

The alternative could include rules, RS with worm select instead of fixed turn order, random turn order, anything, just make a damn effort.

I just don't see any value in hosting bunch of cups or tourneys to get a simple point across, has your hosting done anything to modify HYSTERIA as a classic scheme. No, we got Aerial, which ain't a classic scheme, which imo would be a better scheme for classic than hysteria.

I simply don't see value based on time wasted trying to get the point across, I seee more value trying to approach the situation like this.

Do you or do you not agree that majority of TUS Hysteria players just want to play Hysteria?

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on February 12, 2013, 03:15 PM

Quote from: Free on February 12, 2013, 02:45 PM
Ok, so 2 weeks from now on, 10 games total (I hope we wont have to play all of them at once so we can have full concentration) and let's see if I get 40%, as in I win 4 games out of 10. I agree to this ONLY if MI agrees to either modify the scheme or remove it/make own league to it whatever, as long as it doesn't stay in classic as it is. You say it needs years of experience and your considered one of the top players, so MI shouldn't have problems agreeing with this.

You want to remove the most popular scheme from Classic league, then you must be willing to go to distance. 10 games vs one single player won't do, but it certainly will prove a point. The kind of a point that touches me. There's also Gabriel and many others. (I can't talk for them) If I was in your place and I wanted to prove this point, I'd make a list of great players and try to get a decent winning percentage from each of them. Trying to beat one single player in order to change things around is not the way. Don't bother if that's the highest effort you're willing to do. Nice movie about someone taking the challenge to high skilled ones

But if you manage to pull this, then we'll finally have something to refer to. *An average Hysteria player, took the challenge and beat the high skilled ones.*

In that case, we can start talking about solutions, otherwise it is just like people accuse Intermediate of lucky placements but don't stand a chance vs high skilled players. I'm not interested in theoretical flaws of schemes.

p.s. There's also chance if you train enough, you switch sides lol

There's no way I want to go through the torture of playing more than 1 of the top players, it should already prove enough that Hysteria is a scheme of true skill since there's no way I could go from average to top player in just 2 weeks if the scheme skilled enough. Even Casso said that there's no way I can win more than 2. I've watched enough hyst games (from top players also) and good enough overall defaulter to see the basic routines behind effective hyst tactics, there's no way it would take me more than 2 weeks to grasb the general feel for the scheme and some of its tricks, only true question is that would my accuracy. Only reason I haven't given enough time to properly play hysteria is because the effective tactics are so ridicilous and boring, they make no sense to me, who's played every league out there, from WACL to TUS. Just the f@#!ing fact it's most often good to kill your own worms from the very beginning already SCREAMS flaw. Then there comes the darkside side-zooking, oh my f@#!ing god.

Why can't you simply consider the idea of making Hysteria-only league? It might even work and even be more beneificial to all parties, average to pro hysteria lovers as us "hyst-haters". I'm sure none of us "hyst-haters" want to general activity to go down, but to look for solution that benefits all, because really, hysteria is the most flawed scheme in classic atm. Imo.

Quote from: Casso on February 12, 2013, 01:25 PM
I tried to not write anything in this discussion but since I have been pulled in I feel obliged to answer.

I think that these things don't  solve anything but since Free is asking insistently to start the challenge I gladly accept.

I'll show you that to be competitive in Hysteria you need years of experience because it's not only about telecow, it's about tactic, tricks and skills... these things take years (just ask Komo if you doesn't believe me).

I also think that Hysteria can help this Game/Community to grow; for example in my case the first game that I played online was Hysteria and I started to love this game playing it. After about 1 year I discovered this Community.

I will play 10 games against you and I'm sure you won't win more than 1/2 games. would happen the same thing if at my place would play Random, Gabriel, Artic, Crash, Komo, Kaleu, Almog, SPW, Chelsea, Phanton, fenrys, Krezo and many others (sorry I can't write the full list xD)

P.S Sorry if my english isn't perfect, I hope you understand

Ok, so 2 weeks from now on, 10 games total (I hope we wont have to play all of them at once so we can have full concentration) and let's see if I get 40%, as in I win 4 games out of 10. I agree to this ONLY if MI agrees to either modify the scheme or remove it/make own league to it whatever, as long as it doesn't stay in classic as it is. You say it needs years of experience and your considered one of the top players, so MI shouldn't have problems agreeing with this.

Quote from: Komito on February 12, 2013, 11:52 AM

Quote from: Free on February 12, 2013, 11:33 AM
Oh so now you speak for the whole majority.

No, they have already spoke for themselves, I was just answering your question man...

I only say it, because of the amount of times people just like yourself have posted anti-hysteria thread, and failed miserably.

Yeah whatever man. If the challenge is accepted and MI agrees to the conditions and I succeed, then something will finally happen.

U seriously think that effectively played (piling+side zooks/force sd, 1-shot win) is a good scheme to play in classic league? It's so f@#!ing boring and lame looking, that's why we have so many anti-hysteria threads.

Actually don't even answer, this thread is pissing me off well enough already, just someone top hysteria player accept the challenge, MI agrees to do something with Hyst if I win over 40%, if not, I'll stfu and someone else can open yet another anti-hysteria thread later on.