QuoteIt's not subjective, and it is documented, because we have replays and testimonials of other players.

Also we have physics, science, psychology etc as well.

You just haven't bothered to look, study, or ask.

You are so narrowed minded and one sided it is unbelievable. So again, it is entirely subjective. Your opinion.

QuoteExplain how it is wrong?

It is wrong, it is more hand holding.

QuoteIt has nothing to do with communism.

You don't get to decide if it's honorable or not and write that as a factual statement for all mankind, sure, in your opinion, it's not honorable, which we already established.

As i've already explained it gets used in funners, there is entirely nothing "wrong" with giving each player the same amount of time to play their turn.

For example, what is honorable in one culture, may offend and disgust in another.

You don't get to decide either whatever it is Komodo. It is more rewarding to rope without parachute. So if one player fails and doesn't match up with the other player's time and performance, that's their fault, let alone if they fail.

To fail is a normal human thing Komodo, it is important to allow people to be reminded of their mistakes. They become more aware of their faults and will likely try to avoid it. With chute, it can cloud their roping, while without, you will see clearly at the mistake performed.

QuoteMy quote wasn't about other people, it was about you.

So let's ignore other people right now because that was about you.

I don't need to reply to this because you haven't answered the question yet.

I think my answer was pretty clear, unfortunately for you, facts keeps punching you.

QuoteNo, i'm saying you will improve faster by using parachute, rather than not using parachute.

At no point did I say "in order to get better faster, instant repeat by parachute save is necessary in contrast to no parachute

Then you Komodo are deeply in the error. I am sorry for you.

QuoteFor example, if someone spends 30 hours a week playing without parachute, versus someone playing 2 hours a week with parachute, the person playing 30 hours a week will more than likely improve faster.

But if that person playing 30 hours a week, were to play with parachute, they would generally improve faster over time, as i've already explained.

Are you proposing a test? You seem to come up with random numbers and ideas. You have no idea what you are talking about. You try act some knowledgeable person but you are just now spilling nonsense.

QuoteI would, perhaps say roping without parachute requires more patience(from falling, and having to wait to go again), but definitely not more consistency.

And more consistency

QuoteI just mean, you would probably have better luck sharing your passion, if you went about it in a more positive manner, is all.

If you can't handle how I roll, then go in a corner and cry. Facts don't care about your feelings.

QuoteWhether you realize it or not, you have been advertising things you are passionate about.

And you didn't just voice your opinion, you tried to belittle the views and practices of other people as well.

Belittle the views and practices of other people? You are doing that here in this topic.  If you can't accept what I have to say, that's on you. I can accept and see where you are coming from, but if you can't you are lost.

QuoteThat's completely different, because in your example, using different characters actually changes the physics of the game. When I used other games as examples, I said completing the game without using mushrooms etc, not a different character which has different abilities etc.

That would be like roping, with different physics, which doesn't happen. In roping, with or without parachute, everything is the same.

So no, I won't think about it like that, because that would be ignorant.

See? You can't even stand facts, and comparison! You just don't like it when other people flip the tables at you. That's low, and let alone egotistical of you. You belittle my views, you disrespect everything. So why should I care? I tried to explain that no parachute have its advantages, and is faster to master (imo). No matter how I put it, no matter how I place my words, you remain ignorant. The only thing there is left is a picture book for dummies.

SIGH.

QuoteWell, when we say "learn how to rope", aren't we assuming we are talking about beginners anyway?

I didn't say people can't improve without parachute, of course they can, because it's still practise.

I'm just saying that with parachute, they will improve faster.

Entirely subjective and not documented in WA.

QuoteAnd of course they can practise with ldet, as a matter of fact since ldet became a thing, you can learn to rope even faster!

That is so wrong and cringe worthy man. What drugs are you on? Sure I can get by ldet being a thing in warmers though.

QuoteAlso with ldet in Big RR for example, 40s no banana, it means every player gets the same amount of time roping, and it helps keeps players interested when you have like 4 players, as sometimes players will quit if everyone else is having full turns, and they are losing their turn very fast and falling incredibly far behind. I know this isn't "honorable" in your opinion, but it's fun in casual games.

Wow so communistic. It is not honorable, if you fall behind, that's your fault! Even I can fall incredible far behind.

QuoteSure, you can get long turns without parachute, but can you get incredibly impressive turns that rival the greatest considered ropers of all time? Personally I think you are holding yourself back, but hey if you are happy we're all good

ZaR has some extremely talented ropers, and one of them is particular pain in the ass to pin down. So, are you saying that I need to practice roping with traditional settings before considering beating anyone else that exceeds my own current skills either if they are ZaR or not? Quite frankly, I never fought to be the very best, but to Improve myself. With ZaR I have, and so have everyone else in it and outside of it.

QuoteYou keep saying "In ZaR roper, you remember the fail, try not to repeat it", but any successful person will tell you that you learn from your mistakes, and you keep trying over and over until you get it right, and I am confident enough to say most successful people, in many aspects of life will tell you that you will get better by pushing boundaries, by any means neccessary.

So you are saying that in order to get better faster, instant repeat by parachute save is necessary in contrast to no parachute? If that is the case, this topic will never end.

QuoteBecause you don't have that safety net from using the parachute, you may indeed be more cautious, and you won't push the boundaries as much as you would with the parachute, which will probably leave you being a consistent roper, but not so much an impressive roper that pushes the boundaries.

Komodo, I have seen impressive roping combined with high consistency in ZaR. Both can be applied there, and one does not to have to be a TAS to do it.  I have seen players complimenting other players on their perfectly executed turns. Turns that requires rapid momentum, precise maneuvers and tricks if necessary, tricks that can even further acceleration. If you do not believe this, you are in denial.
It is a good thing you are acknowledging that no parachute requires more consistency.

QuoteDon't think of the parachute as a crutch, think of it as an asset, like using planes to fly, using vehicles to travel, having the internet to help us learn etc, it's a good thing because it helps us to become better faster!

Sure, asset is fine. Fine for other modes.

QuoteThere are a lot more training techniques than just with chute and without chute.

Yep.

QuoteMy only problem I had with you in this thread Kradie, was you being negative towards people who use parachute. Instead of being clever and interesting in a way that promotes ZaR and not using parachute, you attacked a long standing tradition in this game, and called it inferior, weak, pathetic etc... And the funny thing is, you have every right to voice your opinions, but think about this, if you had said all your good opinions about not using parachute without saying any of your bad opinions about using parachute, this would have worked out a lot better for you

Worked out differently for me? Am I supposed to be in a tight spot here? Am I in trouble? Oh wow, I forgot that other in this thread attacked no parachute ropers too. Anyways man, this thread, this poll, shows one things. Majority on TuS, and legacy players are more comfortable & safe using parachute. While I, some legacy players, and new generation, are not.  It is about ''Ok, I don't mind roping without parachute''. It is not a gun to their heads saying ''Rope without parachute or else!''.

QuoteJust remember the way you advertise and market certain things can have a drastic impact on how people perceive it and decide if they want to be involved or not.

Why do you think pretty much all real life advertising campaigns don't immediately attack other companies? They want to make you feel good, they want to trigger good, happy memories, not make you hate other things and trigger bad/spiteful memories, because people don't usually buy most things when they are angry!

Komodo man, I did not make this thread with the intent of advertising. I came here to voice my opinion, have other vote and reply whether they agree or not. If you think that my first post and continued replies afterward were harsh vocally, that's because I firmly believe in what I say. However, my intention were not bad, and if it seemed that way, it perhaps overshadowed the inevitable truth that imo, parachute can be good and fun alternate mode for other people instead of relying on parachute.

QuoteA random example, take Nike, their adverts don't start with "Don't wear Adidas, you're weak if you wear Adidas, wear Nike, be hardcore warrior like us!" (Although that would probably be a pretty amusing advert lol)

Boy oh boy that made me think of this
https://youtu.be/35jGnZ-e3jc

You seem to love metaphors so much, so I will give you one, something I mentioned briefly before.

In speedruns there are many categories, so for example in Super Mario The Lost Levels. You have any%, and 100% runs. You have big Mario run, and you have small Mario runs. You can choose Luigi too, and he can do any of the mentioned categories as well. However, with Luigi, you can jump so much higher and longer, but with Mario you cannot. Luigi's physics makes it easier to maneuver but with Mario your acceleration and speed is tad better. Some says Luigi is too easy to learn, so people stick with Mario. There are many other speedrun games that are similar to this.

So when you think about no parachute, think about it like this. It is its own category and you can rope and master roping just asd you could with parachute, but AGAIN EXCLUDING parachute techniques.

QuoteIf you use parachute, learning how to rope will be much faster than without simply because of the time saved when you fail, you can get going again almost immediately so your flow doesn't break, it's easier to "stay in the zone" which refers to mental state of concentration.

Can you imagine 3-6 player Warmers back in the day without parachute? Having to wait so much longer to have your turn?

Not to mention, without parachute, as you have even said yourself, it's a lot riskier to attempt the faster, more difficult and impressive moves, and these moves take a lot of practise, and precise hand-eye coordination to master, so by using parachute, you simply save a lot of time, and get more practise in, so you will improve faster.

For beginners it could be troublesome as mentioned before, but I have heard no complaints, people have Improved under my games without parachute. If you really want to ''stay in the zone'', have ldet enabled. Or better yet, become a munk.

I don't need to imagine, because I can get long turns without parachute. In Zar roper, you remember the fail, try not to repeat it if it is serious game. It all depends on the player and how he/she/it wishes to play. If laid back and don't care, then fails could happen, but if serious, then less fail if person is trained and skilled enough. People are usually patient, as am I, so waiting say 30-60 seconds if many people in a game, no problem.

There are simply two training techniques one without chute and one with chute. IT depends on person, and their learning capabilities. Which one fancy more and so on. Again, no one new and experienced complains about this in my games.

QuoteI'm not the one saying either or is better, all i've been saying is using parachute is not a bad thing, and learning how to rope with parachute is generally considered a faster method than learning without, and i've already explained why, I never said it's "better", that's up to each person to decide for themselves as some people prefer learning fast, some prefer learning slowly.

That's your opinion. I think one can learn faster without parachute. It all depends on the individual's learning capabilities. I can do with both parachute and without. But I prefer without, I told you why.

QuoteIt's not good for either of us, and I don't get some sort of satisfaction for saying it, I said it because it's simply a word, and what the word means fits your actions in this thread.

In general, people like getting gratification by mostly anything. Even winning arguments and proving a point.

But I feel pity if you think you won anything here in this topic. I think you are wrong and is serious deranged.

QuoteStop acting like it then.

Here's a novel tittle for you ''How to stop acting desperate when you're not''.

Quote from: Korydex on August 13, 2019, 08:15 PM
I've been f@#!ing without condom since the inception of ZaR community. Recent years I have been thinking ''Why do we need condom in sexual activities? It totally feels like trainer mode is enabled holding your hand''.  New partners that has sex with me without condom  doesn't always question the absence of condom, instead they try to adapt. Many have successfully adapted and accepted the punishment that comes with no condom and improved. It is fun for them to overcome and that's why it is so enjoyable.

Ladies have pills to compensate for lack of condom and allow for risky penetrations. That's why people like, the reward of  calculating the release of sperm and eluding its blast radius. It takes certain skills just to do that in nick of time.

No no ladies, I am not dismissing condoms, and disputing the fact it is useful in certain scenarios. But the question is, do we really need it? Do we need to depend on condom to save us?

Lmao! That was brilliant! Can I have more versions of this? Hilarious 

Although, condoms aren't necessary if you want to produce. Although it is not 100% secured too.

But compare that last paragraph with parachute and no parachute. No parachute is definitely not safe.


I made my own now

QuoteI've been playing without fences in bowling since the inception of ZaR community. Recent years I have been thinking ''Why do we need fences in bowling activities? It totally feels like trainer mode is enabled holding your hand''.   New people that comes to my bowling games without expectation of fences, they don't always question the absence of fences, instead they try to adapt. Many have successfully adapted and accepted the punishment that comes with no fences and improved. It is fun for them to overcome and that's why it is so enjoyable.

Bowling without fences allows for risky throws. That's why people like, the reward of  calculating the release of their balls and eluding its imprecise muscle technique . It takes certain skills just to do that in nick of time.

No no ladies, I am not dismissing fences , and disputing the fact it is useful in certain scenarios. But the question is, do we really need it? Do we need to depend on fences in bowling to save us?

QuoteYou would deny facts if they slapped you in the face.

You must have a lot of bruises by now 

QuoteNo, you have explained why it's different, neither is "better" than the other, because it's up to each individual to make the decision what is best for themselves.

It is up for each intellect to decide what works best for themselves, that's why this topic exists. Discussing the difference, the cons and the pros.

QuoteYou do not get to decide what is better for all humanity, which is why you are delusional thinking that you can.

You don't get to decide too, Komodo.

QuoteInteresting, earlier in this post you were calling people weak, lacking confidence etc because they rope with parachute.

Not only are you delusional, you are a hypocrite as well.

Because with parachute, you may have a good time, but when no parachute element was introduced, it caused a line between parachute and no parachute. Ergo, having parachute is less risky. But again, you can rope fast etc with parachute, just as you can with no parachute, excluding parachute tricks.

QuoteYou are having delusions of grandeur about a scheme Kradie, it's not healthy, trust me, i've been there with BnG & Darts, best advice I can give, just chill, enjoy it, stop comparing the things you like to things other people like, and just get on with it, it honestly puts people off when you act so desperate.

So you are a doctor now who gives diagnoses on a Worms forum? LMAO.. That's hilarious man 

Rest assured lad, I am chill, I am simply discussing these things with you. If you think I am delusional etc, good for you.

I am not desperate. Parachute and no parachute is a thing to compare, and it has been discussed here.  I can't force you or anyone else, at least we all can acknowledge there are 2 sides to review. We gone so deep to convince one another., so it would be wrong to call this desperate.

Quote from: j0e on August 13, 2019, 07:22 PM
All through this thread you've dogmatically repeated your faulty premises, spork in hand. You clearly aren't here to discuss with an open mind - so I'm done for now.

You are in error. But I salute your surrender, it was a risky endeavour of you to challenge reality.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 12, 2019, 08:31 PM
Who even talks like that? "I have a bigger foothold in WA than you". I don't care if I am relevant or not, just try to enjoy myself.

You sound like you get off on the idea of trying to be popular and in control, I always done stuff like Darts and BnG etc because I was addicted to it and enjoyed trying to make it better lol.

Many people embrace the idea of no parachute? You sound like a delusional god preacher trying to convince people ZaR is salvation and no parachute is our saviour 

I already got what I came here for, but I can't stop myself from replying because your posts are legit entertaining, weird people have always sparked my curiosity, your posts are completely bonkers but you aren't doing anyone any harm, at least you aren't boring 

Good, because facts don't care about your feelings.

You keep using the word delusional, in fact you are the one who is. I have explained why no parachute is better etc. You can't stand that I am right, and that your version of reality isn't. All you can do is to giggle and be arrogant which is very low in my opinion.

QuoteMy belief is that most people rope like pussies when there's no chute. The game becomes one of mechanical A to B transportation and attacking. Risks from elevated fall damage and no chute are too great for anything extracurricular. Best suited for league games where people already rope like pussies. In my experience funners rarely produce the same level of intensity and competition as league games.

So your belief is that people are pussies that are ok roping with no parachute. Nice insult to people there.

Roper,  Shopper and TTRR are already A to B transportation. It has nothing to do if the chute is there or not.

Extracurricular? That is indeed your belief but as well bias. New and current players don't care of legacy players think. Many don't play the league.

Again, no parachute = More Risk = Pressure. In league games the pressure and risk doubles.

ZaR is a roping community, dedicated for ZAR Scheme(s). Like ZaR Roper and BIG ZAR RR. Which is quite popular I might add. Why don't you show some respect? You were once a member, you thought it was fun and fast paced. Now you are just throwing around insults? Not just to me, but to people.

Quotelonely personal subjective agenda.

My little friend. There is none of this preposterous agenda you proposed. As I said, I got a better foothold in WA than you nowadays, and you are not relevant as once you thought you were. Here is why. Many people embrace the idea of no parachute, and they do this without bias and clinging to the past.  There is nothing anyone can do to stop me hosting games, showing and learning that parachute is not everything to the game.

Sure as SiR J said, punishing for the beginners, but the reward will surely flourish as one master the gratification of no parachute.  They look at experienced, and they could cling to the thought of being as them. Why would they not be? Parachute teaches them that failure is fine.

But I do not expect you to understand Komodo.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 12, 2019, 05:27 PM
I honestly think you are one of the most delusional people i've ever spoke to in my life(online).

But at least you are happy, and i'm glad you finally changed your words about parachute so they weren't lies anymore.

They weren't lies, everyone knows that without parachute, the risk is greater.

Perhaps everything that was formed and read were greatly misinterpreted.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 11, 2019, 10:41 PM
You were saying before that using parachute had no risk at all.

But at least you've corrected that statement now, thanks.

Komodo! You are finally making some progress, thank you! <3

Now that you finally understand, we can continue.

So, to explain as simple as possible, I will do it very light.

No Parachute = More RISK
More risk = More courage
Courage = Makes confidence

What say you Mr Komodo?

IT IS MORE RISKY WITHOUT PARACHUTE.

WITH PARACHUTE IT IS LESS RISKY.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 11, 2019, 02:20 PM

Quote from: Kradie on August 09, 2019, 04:07 PM
IF you remove an element that is supposed to save you, it becomes a risky endeavour that can promote confidence.

Any roping with or without parachute is a "risky endeavour".

Nobody, in their right mind, would argue that roping without parachute doesn't come without risk, because it does.

But what is ridiculous is you saying it promotes confidence in such a way as if roping with parachute is easy, like people who use parachute have no skill or confidence at all, and they play without any risk at all, it's completely nuts...

Quote from: Kradie on August 09, 2019, 04:07 PM
If one cannot trust their own ability without the risk factor, then there is no valor and confidence in their roping.

Using parachute or not using parachute, doesn't change the physics of the game at all, you are saying people who rope with parachute have no valor or confidence because you believe there is no risk at all.

How many games could we compare this situation to?

It's like saying you have no confidence in your skills at super mario if you use mushrooms and other items.

Or racing without brakes in racing games, or playing through any game without being allowed to save at all.

You could think of literally hundreds of thousands of comparisons of games in the same sense you are thinking of Worms Armageddon roping without parachute.

If we could all rope like TAS, this wouldn't be a problem, but we are humans, playing on machines built by humans, which means there will always be flaws and mistakes, it's like you expect people to be perfect which is incredibly ignorant.

There is no more or no less skill involved in roping with or without parachute.

Quote from: Kradie on August 09, 2019, 04:07 PM
I play against people in funners that plays serious and with valor. You must realize that Komodo.

I play serious in funners too, I don't play carelessly, I always try my best, granted sometimes I piss about but for the majority of games I play seriously, that doesn't mean there is any risk involved, it's just a fun game where making mistakes don't matter because nothing is on the line, other than going "Oops! I made a mistake", and maybe getting frustrated at your own shortcomings, it's not a big deal at all.

If you were playing for money, or playing for the glory that winning proves you to be the best player, I would bet my life you would feel a lot more pressure and even nervous in certain situations.

You are playing funners, regardless whether you play serious, the end result is meaningless when nobody cares about collecting results or reporting games in a League with standings, that people look at and compare themselves to others etc.

Quote from: Kradie on August 09, 2019, 04:07 PM
Parachute makes you cast responsibilities aside and rope risk free

No it doesn't, there is nothing you can ever do or say to prove that.

Everything you do there is a risk.

Even just jumping up and connecting rope has a bit of risk to it, that you will time it wrong and mess up your start.

Quote from: Kradie on August 11, 2019, 01:18 PM
The absence of parachute might surely uncomfortable at first, but it is very rewarding once you feel more at ease without parachute.

Perhaps for you, it feels rewarding, but for others, it feels like they are losing a very fun feature of the game, putting more restrictions on what is possible in the game.

Quote from: Kradie on August 11, 2019, 01:18 PM
The rope knocking can be done without parachute, it just needs height calculating and timing.

A lot of rope knocking is impossible without parachute, and some of it would need TAS to pull it off in the way for example, their worm falls over the edge but yours doesn't, no human is that good, at least not consistently.

1. It is not, the added risk factor boost focus and confidence

2. There is risk without parachute.

3. There's only funners, only a few competitive games here on tus.

4. I am glad you brought other games up. It is more commendable to not use mushroom and fire in Super Mario. Here is why; While I am a casual player, a pro speed runner need not to use items if it is in the category they run in. There are many categories in speedruns, Small Mario, Any%, & 100% run. So in a sense, no parachute is its own category that is more hardcore.

5. In funners I can play real bad, like you won't recognize it is me because my roping is so wobbly and unstable that it makes it so embarrassing. These moments I do not like, and anyone can have bad games and days of roping or whatever. So I try my best or just take time off. Anyone can play bad regardless if it is serious or not. But I also agree that if it is competitive, it adds extra layer of pressure, just like with no parachute.

6. Everything is a risk, but no parachute = added risk factor.

7. I have seen rope knocking been pulled of from edges, We are only humans, we are not perfect, we can do errors in anything we do. But with parachute it just pats you on the back and says it's ok.

Quote from: Tomi on August 11, 2019, 06:49 AM
Have you ever heard about rope knocking from high levels? Or changing worm direction using the side wall?

Of course I have, I used these tactics plenty of times in this decade and the previous. I do think parachute is necessary in some schemes such as Shopper. But when you remove the parachute, it becomes another game mode, that might have you rope differently at first. The absence of parachute might surely uncomfortable at first, but it is very rewarding once you feel more at ease without parachute. The rope knocking can be done without parachute, it just needs height calculating and timing. So again, two modes, which one are you most OK with? Parachute or without? It is not about ''Remove all parachute from popular rope schemes?''.

There are certainly smart choices to be made with parachute. But there are also smart choices handling rope without parachute. E.g, you want to knock your opponent down from a hiding spot, but you can't. So you are left with positioning your worm and focus on visual cue and time your attack. Attack can be done with bazooka,, grenade, and whatever have you.

The majority on TUS have said no, they are not OK with no parachute, there is no eluding that fact. Although, most of my games people don't really complain, they just accept and adjust. They do their best with what is given. It is becoming a trend and widely accepted in WA.

I don't feel embarrassed, I am simply sticking up to what I believe, just as you are.

IF you remove an element that is supposed to save you, it becomes a risky endeavour that can promote confidence. If one cannot trust their own ability without the risk factor, then there is no valor and confidence in their roping. I play against people in funners that plays serious and with valor. You must realize that Komodo.

QuoteMost situations where parachute is actually deployed because of a failure, you need your opponent to make a mistake as well or chances are you won't catch up, you seem to think parachute makes you invincible, it does not.

Parachute makes you cast responsibilities aside and rope risk free, while without parachute you can do the same but with skills and confidence.  IF you fail that is on you, and if you can't catch up, then you have a formidable foe that outperforms you. It is your job to accumulate the necessary dexterity to match or surpass the suppressing opponent.