Increase fd, use destructible terrain and make no rules. Problems fixed!!

No drama pls.

When i played with avi we used w2w rule just few times in whole game, only in cases when atack was imposible to do after getting crate,
so game engine does not change !


Its still roper but much better.

there are many people with ideas, to make schemes better, more fair, balanced etc.
i think, at least we should test these scheme ideas, maybe in form of a seperate ''tus scheme test league'' ?!
if we just could make 1 scheme better, it were a good progress for worms and the community.

Get the first turn-attack. Hide on top. Hope that map has no gay hides -> Victory

.. or a draw.. then do it all over again!

To be more "honest" though. Cr8 rape does destroy roper a bit from a competitive point of view and I'd like to see a change.. w2w sounds like a good idea.

Or no rules roper with 12 seconds of time ( for example) to not make it too easy.

You must mean w2 roper?

Quote from: ShyGuy on January 30, 2012, 12:10 AM

Quote from: Agneau on January 29, 2012, 06:37 PM
This rule sucks just for one reason:

If you lead, you just have to hide top or hide really near from a wall and do w2w all the time.
on this way, it is impossible for the other guy to win.
It will just become a boring schem without any surprise after 2 minutes of game.

I mean if you lead you can hide top and regular roper and the same thing will happen... that's why people hide top in roper when they lead...

Yes and no, with the w2w thing if u hide top u are SURE to attack !
Without it u still have a chance to get an hard cr8.

Which is why I suggested shorter retreat time, just a tad bit shorter, so doing a w2w and getting a crate is very challenging but rewarding

I'm totally agree with berria.. The roper is a big liucky game now.. But it shouldn't be that

Watch this game: https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/download/game-25383-1/ I should lose here, but everytime when the other guy could finish the game he got very hard cr8s

w2w rule is a good thing when you got a hard cr8 or at least we need a rule that a player can replace cba with w2w 3 times on a game

Quote from: Tomi on January 30, 2012, 08:53 PM
or at least we need a rule that a player can replace cba with w2w 3 times on a game

very interesting suggestion   

Quote from: Berria on January 30, 2012, 09:17 PM

Quote from: Tomi on January 30, 2012, 08:53 PM
or at least we need a rule that a player can replace cba with w2w 3 times on a game

very interesting suggestion   

And who's gonna keep track of this?
Please don't BnGize the roper rules.

Tomi, let's not exaggerate. roper is not "a big lucky game" as you say.

yes, crates affect games a little, but mistakes affect games overwhelmingly more than anything. you guys make it sound like 90% of ropers end due to luck, but really less than 1% of games are decided by crates alone.

your game vs msc was affected by crates, but msc made way too many mistakes. watch it again.

unless someone invents a crateless roper, they will always affect games slightly. even with berria's w2w idea, crates will still affect games slightly, but at least they become a little more interesting.

Quote from: franz on January 30, 2012, 11:54 PMyou guys make it sound like 90% of ropers end due to luck, but really less than 1% of games are decided by crates alone.

Nah not really mate, it's you who makes that exaggeration/assumption.

The truth is, you can be playing fluent, get 2 impossible crates, and lose, it doesn't matter if it happens alot, the fact is it happens, and when it DOES happen, no one deserves to feel like their efforts were torn from them out of their control, and for people who highly pride themselves upon win rates etc it's even worse. Falling a few turns each on possible crates at least in my opinion, is frustrating enough, let alone just ridiculous when you never had a chance to grab and hit in the 1st place.

Yes, it doesn't bother you franz, it doesn't bother quite a few players here, alot of people are quite happy to lose with a little luck, some people actually prefer this, it adds a bit of spice to the excitement and randomness that is Worms Armageddon, there is more than sufficient enough evidence that this affects ALOT of people.

This discussion alone has been brought up AFAIK at least 6 times since I started on TuS, I think Roper honestly, sincerely needs a change, more than anything.

Quote from: Komito on January 31, 2012, 02:06 AM

Quote from: franz on January 30, 2012, 11:54 PMyou guys make it sound like 90% of ropers end due to luck, but really less than 1% of games are decided by crates alone.

Nah not really mate, it's you who makes that exaggeration/assumption.

The truth is, you can be playing fluent, get 2 impossible crates, and lose, it doesn't matter if it happens alot, the fact is it happens, and when it DOES happen, no one deserves to feel like their efforts were torn from them out of their control, and for people who highly pride themselves upon win rates etc it's even worse. Falling a few turns each on possible crates at least in my opinion, is frustrating enough, let alone just ridiculous when you never had a chance to grab and hit in the 1st place.

Yes, it doesn't bother you franz, it doesn't bother quite a few players here, alot of people are quite happy to lose with a little luck, some people actually prefer this, it adds a bit of spice to the excitement and randomness that is Worms Armageddon, there is more than sufficient enough evidence that this affects ALOT of people.

This discussion alone has been brought up AFAIK at least 6 times since I started on TuS, I think Roper honestly, sincerely needs a change, more than anything.

completely agree. 

there is no reason, whether you are playing flawlessly or making mistakes every turn, that you should forfeit a turn just because the game engine tucks a crate into the far island.  Roper is extremely bad with this.  Not only does the random crate drop factor sometimes decide a turn sometimes, but the random WIND factor on the first turn does, too!  Why are we allowing these random game mechanics determine what happens in a turn?  I honestly can't think of another scheme that has random game mechanics that can prevent you from making progress in the game, let alone two!  I mean roper is all about making consistent attacks, yet there are rules whose sole purpose is to favor those random game mechanics that can prevent you from doing this! why???

I sort of agree with the 1st turn wind thing, but then again, wasn't that introduced in the 1st place to stop people from picking a ridiculously easy map, getting 1st turn, never missing, and winning?