yes yes, leave this thread open, so all the newbs can gather round' in aww and discover new programs to cheat with


ropas logic :X 

oh, i like this game!

Quote from: Nullum on April 05, 2012, 01:50 PM
Why close this thread? Why so secret?

It aint fair to other players who they lose to cheaters.

If close this thread, then I can't report new cheats stuff to MI and worse is, in future will here always be cheaters and WA will die. So point is find a solution or disable them in next update somehow, so I can start to play TUS again. Because I don't wanna spend my time on cheaters...

well that sounds good, thats why I play mainly vs people I know. But the problem is that right now theres no way to detect it so you just share the information with people who not even knew about it and want try it now because they r too noob to win in a fair way.

if you wanna help pm mi about that but dont make weird heads like me downloiding funny programms/modules 

also your cheat obsession is nice, seems like ex cheaters hate cheaters the most, like with the smokers.

Quote from: avirex on April 05, 2012, 01:51 PM
yes yes, leave this thread open, so all the newbs can gather round' in aww and discover new programs to cheat with


ropas logic :X 

oh, i like this game!

Don't be ridiculous avirex, I'm glad you're from a ghetto, that way there's no way you can get your arse near a political party, because with this mentality, we'd be f@#!ed.

Quote from: Nullum on April 05, 2012, 01:50 PM
Why close this thread? Why so secret?

It aint fair to other players who they lose to cheaters.

If close this thread, then I can't report new cheats stuff to MI and worse is, in future will here always be cheaters and WA will die. So point is find a solution or disable them in next update somehow, so I can start to play TUS again. Because I don't wanna spend my time on cheaters...

You coud PM him =)
This thread will become another flamewar and more work to MI.

I keep asking myself, why noone spoke about StepS in this topic yet,
he probably know alot about those modules.

Off topic: Lol ropa you are so smart.  

rofl , it took lot of time for me to learn to fr with the space (getting the timing) after maciej's bashing against me calling me cheater cos i used to play with 2 spaces , and now i see there are more cheats than i thought and prolly more than 50% of wormers are using it  , f@#! off im gonna start to cheat xDDDD

"if u cant beat them , join them "

I will not doubt you.

Quote from: Kaleu on April 05, 2012, 03:50 PM
I will not doubt you.

says the cheater

no worries mate , i was just joking , ill never be like u ,  a truly cheater

Still not doubting you. 

ropa, if by me not living in my daddies mansion, you mean the ghetto.. then yes, im in the hood..



and i can be sure when i say this thread has done more harm, then good... but whatever, keep it open. i dont care either way.. people are going to cheat regardless

Quote from: Nullum on April 04, 2012, 09:30 PM
- I know what these cheating does -
01. wkShopperDoubleSpace.dll = Doublespace used in TTRR
02. Silkworm = Doublespace with timing
03. UWT = Doublespace
04. xSpeed = Tool to speed up or speed down
05. Tool Assisted = You can controled every steps on worms
06. Autohotkey = Macro scripts

- But does anyone what these new cheating thing is? -
07. wkAutoKeys.dll = ?
08. wkCheatPack.dll = ?
09. wkKawooshKickNoMsg.dll = ?
10. wkLobbyCheating31.dll = ?

Here are many reasons I don't play TUS because of these cheating stuff. I bet here will be 75% cheaters on TUS. I hope CS would fix those stuff and disable it in next update, before I want start to play TUS again.

   

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread.

Firstly, Komodo, you should know by now that when a player injects an informative-only WormKit module which doesn't affect the underlying game state, there is no way for the opponent to know it's running, whether they ran WA via WormKit or not.  WormKit is only a means of loading WA.exe with any dll files named wk*.dll in the same directory.  It doesn't do anything beyond that.  Its source code is extremely small.

If someone is using a module which allows them to see the contents of crates dropped, there is no way for the opponent to know.  The only fix for this is to eliminate the logical loophole which enables the game to know the contents of crates.  I thought this loophole had been closed, but apparently a different loophole still exists to be exploited.  If anyone knows exactly what the loophole is, what the program does, or can send the program to CyberShadow or Deadcode to reverse-engineer, doing so would go a long way in helping them fix it.

Edit: I was just informed that this loophole allows people to see the other players' inventories, not crate contents.  I misunderstood.  It goes to show just how much misinformation and miscommunication we have surrounding these cheats.  If we work hard on communicating with each other well, we can better handle cheaters and put them to justice.

Secondly, the special tool-assist builds used to make those replays (such as the tool-assisted mission records here) generate encrypted replays which can not be played back by any public build of WA, and they can also not be used online since they have all their network code removed.  The replays on the WKB there have been personally decrypted by either Deadcode or CyberShadow specifically to be played back by public builds of WA, with the information that the replay is tool-assisted, so it belongs in its own category of competition, separate from unassisted replays.  It is not possible for anyone with a tool-assist build of WA to cheat in any competition without explicit permission and decryption by Deadcode or CyberShadow; something that will never happen.

Tool-assisted speed-running is not a form of cheating.  It is a separate competition between other players with tool-assistance and serves as a demonstration of the limits of the game's mechanics.  It's also meant as a form of entertainment.

As long as a replay is labelled as "tool-assisted", you can be sure that it was not played with the standard build of WA and can disregard it.  There will never be any tool-assisted replays which are not labelled as "tool-assisted".

If someone edits a replay, there will be many checksum mismatches, which you can see in the chat window during playback.  Editing a replay submitted to an unassisted competition is a form of cheating, and if you see checksum mismatches during playback, be aware that it was very likely to be edited.

Thirdly, there's the exploit to start the game without the light bulbs being lit.  We thought that loophole was closed, but there seems to be another way to do it.  CyberShadow and Deadcode both know about it, but don't necessarily know how it works exactly.  If anyone knows exactly what the loophole is, what the program does, or can send the program to CyberShadow or Deadcode to reverse-engineer, doing so would go a long way in helping them fix it.  Until it's fixed, I guess my only advice is to team in quickly and/or not play with people who use it.  It's pretty stupid anyway.  It doesn't really help anyone cheat; just makes the game start when people aren't ready, which can cause them to quit or have to rehost.

Fourthly, xSpeed (or other similar speed hacks) can be detected.  During online play, watch out for consistently-spaced periodic lag during most of the player's turn, as this is sometimes indicative of a speed hack.  If you suspect anyone of using a speed hack and you have their replay (can't be detected from your replay if you played with them online), send their replay to someone in #worms on the GameSurge IRC network or in a PM here to MonkeyIsland, KRD, CyberShadow, or me.  We have found cheaters using speed hacks before and we will continue to do so.  Everyone who isn't a cheater agrees that hardcore cheating like this is not okay.

Fifthly, KawooshKick simply disconnects people from the host and can only be used by the host.  It's not something that can be prevented.  If you get disconnected by the host seemingly without reason when you were doing well against someone who acts immature, you might be right to suspect foul play.  If you never want it to happen again, avoid playing with that player.  Also, tell other people that happened to you.  If it happens to multiple people, it can probably be decided that the person was cheating.  Anyone can do what KawooshKick does with a little bit of networking experience, without the module.

If you find cheat files, please send them to CyberShadow.  He is an excellent reverser and is able to determine what they do so he can fix their loopholes.  Both CyberShadow and Deadcode only want what's best for the WA community.  WormKit and wkMagic (which inspired wkRubberWorm and wkProjectX) were created to enhance the game with fun features, but unfortunately there are people out there who want to get an undeserved edge.  We can fight back if we communicate and work together.

Lex - I don't know who you are or how much connection you have to CyberShadow or DeadCode.

Well good to know xSpeed and TA can be detected in replay to count it as cheat, but we have still problem with all those wk files. If CyberShadow and Deadcode can´t close this loophole or what it called, then I suggest we disable wormkit in next update.

Yea but create another shit for host because I use WormKit for hosting only.

Quote from: Kaleu on April 05, 2012, 09:42 PM
Yea but create another shit for host because I use WormKit for hosting only.

saddly i have to agree with this cheater

Hi,

I'd just like to add a few things to Lex's post above.

I should point out that we don't really need the cheat files in order to be able to fix them. We're aware of most loopholes in the game and possible cheats, both implemented and theoretical. That doesn't mean that we can easily fix all of them; some things are easy to fix, others would require major rethinking and restructuring of how the game works; and some others are plain impossible to prevent, without dire sacrifices. See below for details.

Now, what do we do about the situation at hand?

First of all, I think we need to distinguish two different scenarios: whether the cheats were leaked intentionally or not.

The wide availability of the cheats may not have been intended by the cheats' creators. Some of you may recall the Silkworm 3.x leak (for those who don't - see here); I believe it wasn't very different from the current situation. A malevolent cheat creator who keeps publicly releasing new versions of cheats is a different situation requiring a different response, so I won't cover it here.

Since these cheats are WormKit modules, we can assume that they work by hooking themselves into W:A's code. Like many other WormKit modules, they will stop working with any W:A version other than the one they were made for. So, one way to get a cheat-free game is to get everyone to use a W:A version for which there are no known cheats. This can be 3.6.30.0, or the next 3.x Beta whenever it comes out. (This doesn't apply to WormKit modules that only modify network packets, so it may not apply to the lightbulb exploit.)

What about longterm solutions?

First, you should know that if a program is running on your computer, there is little to stop you from modifying that program as you please - assuming you have the knowledge and skill to do so. The program may have components that could detect such modifications, but you could disable them as well.

Game cheats are as unfortunate as they are unavoidable. It might be possible to design the game so that some cheats are impossible. For example, if a multiplayer Poker game doesn't send cards that are not visible to the player, no cheat can make them appear on your screen (short of hacking the game server).

We have done a similar change in 3.6.29.0. Quote from the ReadMe:

QuoteThe contents of crates is now determined when the crate is picked up, destroyed, or viewed with a Crate Spy utility, rather than when the crate is created. This prevents "crate spy" cheats, making it practically impossible to predict the contents of a crate in an online game.

Note that the above change only makes it impossible to spy the contents of the crates. Once a weapon is picked up, its contents is added to the respective team's inventory. The teams' weapon inventories are part of the global game state, which is known and kept in sync by all game instances in the same multiplayer game - so, it's possible to create cheats that view others' weapon inventories, which is probably exactly what happened. Encrypting players' inventories is an idea we're brainstorming about, but it's unlikely to happen in the near future (because of how difficult it is to implement correctly).

While some kinds of cheats can be avoided by restructuring the game logic, others aren't really avoidable - such as macros or aimbots. One exception to this are anti-cheat modules, such as GameGuard and Valve Anti-Cheat. We really don't want to go in this direction, since such software usually intrudes on players' privacy and is expensive (in terms of resources) to develop and maintain.

Some other things mentioned in this thread:

• The exploit to start the game without the light bulbs being lit is fixed as far as we know, however (if I recall correctly) we didn't account for the fact that the host can toggle others' light bulbs. This is easy to fix and will be fixed.
• Kicking modules. There are two things to say here:
  
  
  • If you let a bot (e.g. HostingBuddy) host 1vs1 games, you can know for sure who "dropped". Note that the term itself is rather ambiguous - people often make the mistake that the disconnection happens on one person's computer or another's. In reality, it can happen anywhere in between. See this thread as an example.
  • The long-term plans are to change W:A's network model to full peer-to-peer (everyone connects to everyone, assuming at least one person in every pair is connectable), add automatic reconnections and resuming games.
• Edit:
  

  Quote from: Nullum on April 05, 2012, 09:01 PMIf CyberShadow and Deadcode can´t close this loophole or what it called, then I suggest we disable wormkit in next update.

  I'd like to stress out what Lex has already said - WormKit is not the problem. If WormKit didn't exist, someone else could easily write their own WormKit-like program, or just create cheats in the form of .exe files (as opposed to wk*.dll files) which included WormKit's functionality. Blocking WormKit-like software is impossible, short of going the GameGuard-like rootkit-spyware route.

Finally, I'd like to invite the people who are related to the creation and distribution of the cheats to step up, cut your losses and help the community recover from any damage the leak has caused. It's important to note that a few programmers doing cheats for fun - but not publicly distributing them or abusing them in online play - is comparatively harmless than said cheats leaking out.