Quote from: Aerox on May 02, 2014, 06:48 PM

Quote from: Anubis on May 02, 2014, 05:24 PM
How dare you say 1800 or 1790 damage is nothing! Have you not raided hardcore in WoW? If you said that to your raid-leader he would kick you out! I have switched races many times in WoW for 20 bucks just to get that little extra damage from race bonus. If it doesn't matter then the game is not hard enough. Have the bosses no enrage timers? Could you avoid and run in circles forever if your skilled and nothing happens? That would be kind of lame tbh. xD

There's a few gameplay enrage timers yes. You can dodge some bosses to eterntiy, yes. I doubt you can manage by running in circles, though.

The Ancient Dragon is just a NPC, and the only reason he's doing those moves all the time is because the guy doing it is positioning himself and waiting the correct amount of time. If you tried yourself without knowing all the small details you would get one shoted by his cleave, or probably just burn really.

If you apply other game concepts to this game you're doing it wrong, specially a game like WoW. Skill > stats in every single way you can imagine. I can beat you barefisted and naked at this point, doing 100 damage while you do 2.000

Actually the AI seems very basic in DS2, at least of what I have seen in videos and from what I experienced so far. It feels very scripted. For example: Player is x amount distance away from NPC > perform y attack. Player is blocking > perform z attack to break it, etc. You can see patterns really fast if you pay attention. It's almost like raiding in WoW just that you can actually control what attack the NPC will do in DS2 while in WoW it is completely scripted after x amount of time/damage done/phases. The dragon seems like being forced to use his breath attack when the player is at y distance, thus the player has to stop attacking and get back to distance y in order to chain breath the dragon. Though I am sure DS2 has different phases too as I have seen different attacks after x amount of damage done, (Big giant uses his arm to get more reach after half his life I think) it still seems pretty static imo. though way more dynamic than most games. I think Monster Hunter has one of the most dynamic combat systems, it feels random enough to not make it feel scripted and having no HP bar is one of the greatest ideas to remove this feel of scripting. Imagine in WoW you don't know how much HP is left, or in DS2. As long as you have not beaten him you don't know how far away you are from winning, so much tension. Though in Monster Hunter the enemies start limping so you can tell at the end when you are almost done, but everything before that is pure fun.

I hate my analytical approach to games, thats why Worms (roping) was such a good game for me, no matter how hard you analyze the game in the end your real physical skill is needed when roping.

Monster Hunter combat system has nothing on Dark Souls, nor the weapon variety and movesets.

If you enjoy the game and actually become decent at it and experienced you will quickly realize this.

Just wait until you reach a relatively early boss, the Ruin Sentinels, it's pretty WoWish, or it can be

Bosses are pretty varied, there's a lot of just melee and stuff, but overall, they're one of the big selling points of this game

Quote from: Aerox on May 02, 2014, 07:13 PM
Monster Hunter combat system has nothing on Dark Souls, nor the weapon variety and movesets.

I am gonna disagree on that, knowing that I am right. xD

I have seen all of DS1 and a lot of DS2 already (my friend plays it all day, he sits next to me) and we both agree that Monster Hunters combat system has way more combination, better co-op, and more epic boss fights, 30 bosses in DS2 is not alot compared to Monster Hunters huge arsenal. Even the very first Monster Hunter game had more monsters.

Also, I believe in a RPG it should not be gear > skill or skill > gear.. the perfect balance is gear = skill, meaning you skill shows through your gear, and your gear shows your actual game skill.

Quote from: Anubis on May 02, 2014, 07:17 PM

Quote from: Aerox on May 02, 2014, 07:13 PM
Monster Hunter combat system has nothing on Dark Souls, nor the weapon variety and movesets.

I am gonna disagree on that, knowing that I am right. xD

I have seen all of DS1 and a lot of DS2 already (my friend plays it all day, he sits next to me) and we both agree that Monster Hunters combat system has way more combination, better co-op, and more epic boss fights, 30 bosses in DS2 is not alot compared to Monster Hunters huge arsenal. Even the very first Monster Hunter game had more monsters.

I'm talking about the combat system. Monster Hunter is pretty much like most RPGs, positoning is important, not close to Souls series though, timing not so much. Weapon movesets really have little impact in the gameplay and timing and reflexes are a gimmick if compared to the Soul series. Just imagine a hypothetical PVP in the monster hunter system, it would be like a melee duel in Diablo 2.

I didn't say anything about the bosses in comparison to Monster Hunter

How far into NG+++ is your friend? What's his level and soul memory? Does he PVP? How many weapons does he consider himself good with? erm... does he use a shield?

Positioning is in a different way important in the MH series. When fighting monsters you not only have to consider your position where you can deal maximum damage, but also to get certain parts for a weapon/armor you wish to craft, some weapons can't even penetrate the armor so you have to fight a monster differently depending on your weapon you have. Also remember MH actual needs different movement skill since it has no auto-lock like DS2, you can center the camera to the boss with a button press but it does not automatically keep the camera on target like in DS. To get a glimpse how MH combat can feel like you would need to turn off DS auto-lock on target after you targeted it, in fact, I find the MH combat system a bit more skillful because of that. Also, in DS backstabbing/parrying is in many times gimmick for the hard fights since you simply can't even backstab many bosses, they are too big to do so. It shines through that those moves were put in place for PvP, not so much for PvE. Weapon movesets in MH are centered around co-op play, buffing, stunning, burst damage. It's a 100% PvE game. An Archer/Range character is solo-able but in a group it really pwns twice as hard.

We can run in circles with this discussion, you favor Souls, we favor MH Series in terms of combat mechanics.

He has not completed the game yet, I think at home he has 11 bosses down and here at my house he has like 5 bosses down, but he is a true grinder, he spends a lot of time farming souls.

Quote from: Anubis on May 03, 2014, 09:46 AM
Positioning is in a different way important in the MH series. When fighting monsters you not only have to consider your position where you can deal maximum damage, but also to get certain parts for a weapon/armor you wish to craft, some weapons can't even penetrate the armor so you have to fight a monster differently depending on your weapon you have. Also remember MH actual needs different movement skill since it has no auto-lock like DS2, you can center the camera to the boss with a button press but it does not automatically keep the camera on target like in DS. To get a glimpse how MH combat can feel like you would need to turn off DS auto-lock on target after you targeted it, in fact, I find the MH combat system a bit more skillful because of that. Also, in DS backstabbing/parrying is in many times gimmick for the hard fights since you simply can't even backstab many bosses, they are too big to do so. It shines through that those moves were put in place for PvP, not so much for PvE. Weapon movesets in MH are centered around co-op play, buffing, stunning, burst damage. It's a 100% PvE game. An Archer/Range character is solo-able but in a group it really pwns twice as hard.

We can run in circles with this discussion, you favor Souls, we favor MH Series in terms of combat mechanics.

He has not completed the game yet, I think at home he has 11 bosses down and here at my house he has like 5 bosses down, but he is a true grinder, he spends a lot of time farming souls.

...

You guys should actually play the game a bit before daring to make such comparisons. I have completed all Monster Hunter games, in retrospect.

You cannot talk about worms warming if you've only just learned how to shoot the rope twice in a row.

Plus, you insist on talking about completely different things. I'm talking about actual combat gameplay and you're talking aboutt RPG aspects such as grinding for gear and getting the optimal equipment to kill a boss. Those are not combat mechanics, those are completely different game mechanics, progression, itemization, whatever.

You're making a bunch of assumptions based on ignorance. Assuming, per instance, that all people use auto-lock to fight. I don't, 90% of the time.

It doesn't take half the skill. You guys are 10% into the game. Or 1%, since for most the real Dark Souls 2 starts in NG+ and you're making big analysis about the skill required in both games?  As if. I'd love to hear your experiences once you reach the last sinner on NG+, I'd love to see you try that alone with melee, should be easy, no? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F166yYf5K2A (auto-lock? :l)

So completing DS1 on PS3 NG+ and DS1 PtD PC Edition as well is having no experience? Right, might as well tell a WWP player that he has no idea about roping when he played W:A. (since you make a lame Worms reference) Same engine, same mechanics, here and there new gimmicks essentially the same game. Hilarious. My experience is just by watching him and here and there playing myself a bit. But my friend loves the DS Series. I am merely translating his words from german into english and bring in my MH knowledge into discussion since you are insisting it is less of a skilled game.

Sure, DS2 might "start" in NG+, but that's the same argument people make to defend their game which isn't top notch from the beginning.

you just need to acknowledge I'm talking about actual gameplayabiltiy whilst you're talking about skill as if it was knowledge - knowing what mats to farm, knowing what gear is optimal...


actual gameplay of MH translates to positioning yourself correctly for maximun damage, spamming attack, using consumables and dodging a bit. With all weapons having virtually the same gameplay mechanics. Repeating myself here: PVP in MH is a spam fest in which the best gear wins. In fact, you don't even need much if any reflexes to beat MH, just knowledge and grind.

NG+ on DS is not a big of a feat, since for all I know he could be spamming magic.

Dark Souls 2 is top notch from the beginning. I'm talking about difficulty here but feel free to twist my words all over if only because you think we're having a my favorite vs your favorite argument, we're not, move on.

I'm not going to comment too much on the "same engnie same mechanics" since I don't want to make you or your friend look like a fool, but you're being borderline unrespectful by comming to a discussion with me with so much little knowledge and so much ignorance... To keep it short, the engine is totally different and all the important mechanics have completely changed. But hey, ok! Not draggnig this any further. It's like trying to discuss soccer with a girl that doesn't understand offside.

I've seen gameplay of this and actually what puts me off this is the difficulty, I literally think this game would be too difficult for me.

Quote from: Aerox on May 04, 2014, 10:39 AM
you just need to acknowledge I'm talking about actual gameplayabiltiy whilst you're talking about skill as if it was knowledge - knowing what mats to farm, knowing what gear is optimal...


actual gameplay of MH translates to positioning yourself correctly for maximun damage, spamming attack, using consumables and dodging a bit. With all weapons having virtually the same gameplay mechanics. Repeating myself here: PVP in MH is a spam fest in which the best gear wins. In fact, you don't even need much if any reflexes to beat MH, just knowledge and grind.

NG+ on DS is not a big of a feat, since for all I know he could be spamming magic.

Dark Souls 2 is top notch from the beginning. I'm talking about difficulty here but feel free to twist my words all over if only because you think we're having a my favorite vs your favorite argument, we're not, move on.

I'm not going to comment too much on the "same engnie same mechanics" since I don't want to make you or your friend look like a fool, but you're being borderline unrespectful by comming to a discussion with me with so much little knowledge and so much ignorance... To keep it short, the engine is totally different and all the important mechanics have completely changed. But hey, ok! Not draggnig this any further. It's like trying to discuss soccer with a girl that doesn't understand offside.

The same can be said in DS, you need to understand the scripted moves that all enemies have, it's really that simple don't think you outsmart the enemy by dodging or parrying or anything else, you as a player are given a time window and then have to act accordingly, if you fail to do so you take damage as punishment so you learn not to take it because it hinders your progression. This is universal in every game, there's no super secret formula that makes DS more difficult than others. It just more unforgiving because you don't loose half of your life in most games. You have to know what triggers what and I feel like I am repeating myself here since I have said that a couple of posts ago which you professionally ignored. Do you honestly believe it is so much more difficult to beat DS 2 on NG+ or whatever you claim to be the "real deal" than any other game? No, it just punishes mistakes more. Other games punish you less and thus feel easier but that doesn't mean the mechanics are harder in DS. They are not complex, not hard to understand, just hidden so you have to wiki it. Having no tutorial that tells you how to do stuff doesn't equal that it's hard. Example? Why do I need to go to a 3rd party site that tells me how to power stance? Why can't the game tell me that I need 150% of the stats to do so. Oh yeah, people would think that's casual or pros will figure it out. To me that's just lazy design, I am not asking for them to show me all secrets and hidden things thats cool to find out yourself. But leaving out vital information about your game mechanics? Lazy.

And since you need these little thrash talking components in your posts, here's my contribution:

The fanboy is strong in you! xD Feels like I am hurting you because you don't have as much time as I have to play games so you can only focus on one and praise it to the heaven, don't get too worked up, remember d3 when you tried to make me angry and failed to do so and had to delete me off your friends list which leads me to:

Makes sense that of us both I would be the girl after what has happened in the past.

Demon's Souls > Dark Souls > Dark Souls II

2 Meteor Storm = Final boss dead and gone.
Lovely difficulty. Was kinda the same about Mages on Dark Souls.

What's next ?


PS: For people having trouble with this game: Hold your shield and open your eyes.
This game is only about knowing ennemy moves.

Quote from: Abnaxus on May 04, 2014, 11:19 PM

What's next ?

You can try fighting me with your flashy magic and your shield up... see how quickly that brings you to the ground



anubis tell me about the hours spent browsing the internet finding grinding guides to find the perfect lolipops to kill that snake recolor in Monster Hunter, please. Just play the game and don't let your ego of trying to prove me wrong not let you enjoy the game. You're barely into the game, your friend sounds like a total casual.
Just play it with an open mind and don't let what I say generate a prejudice in your own mind, it would be a pity and equally pathetic.

And don't listen to Abnaxus, he's the worst of casuls.

edit: ryan I would be very very surprised if you found the game too hard to conquer. You should "try" it out, no investment needed. The game is beaten around 400 times every hour since launch. That's only PS3 and Xbox.

Quote from: Aerox on May 05, 2014, 09:31 AM

Quote from: Abnaxus on May 04, 2014, 11:19 PM

What's next ?

You can try fighting me with your flashy magic and your shield up... see how quickly that brings you to the ground



anubis tell me about the hours spent browsing the internet finding grinding guides to find the perfect lolipops to kill that snake recolor in Monster Hunter, please. Just play the game and don't let your ego of trying to prove me wrong not let you enjoy the game. You're barely into the game, your friend sounds like a total casual.
Just play it with an open mind and don't let what I say generate a prejudice in your own mind, it would be a pity and equally pathetic.

And don't listen to Abnaxus, he's the worst of casuls.

edit: ryan I would be very very surprised if you found the game too hard to conquer. You should "try" it out, no investment needed. The game is beaten around 400 times every hour since launch. That's only PS3 and Xbox.

How cute of you to think me or my friend are casuals, is that the thrash-talking part of that post? I see. You still haven't figured out what I am trying to tell you, have you? Monster Hunter, Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma, Darksiders, Castlevania LoS, God of War, DmC etc. they all share the same basic action combat mechanics. You have to actively mitigate damage (dodging, parrying, blocking, running in circles, jumping...), learn the moves of your enemies and position yourself. The boss exposes, you deal damage. You expose yourself, you get hit. Learn to accept that none of these games are innovative or difficult to play when you have clocked hundreds of hours with such gameplay, DS is no exception to this formula. Dark Souls baseline experience is hard in your opinion but you will die countless times as well if you choose to in other games, granted some games are even on "hardest" difficulty a joke but I have died hundreds of times in different games as well, maybe you should give the various action games a try other than DS and when you do, not pick normal?

I don't care if you believe DS is the better game, for all it's worth the controls are crisp and responsive and the combat has tactical decisions (like most decent games). I am just trying to tell you that the mechanics are nothing special, it's not a selling point of the game because it's done in other games as well.

What you are trying to tell me is basically this:

"Anubis, anubis, let's play this modified scheme I have found. It's a warmer with fall damage, you have to be careful and pay attention because when you fall you will loose your turn, it's so hard!"

Assuming that understanding the game mechanics is the mere basics at becoming good at the game and that you and your friend ignore plenty, yes, you're casuals, regardless of how many casual action games on extreme (unfair, not hard) you've played.

As for the rest, I don't care what you're trying to tell me, this is the typical argument timeline here at TUS, or any other forum for that matter.

I made the claim that dark souls takes more gameplay skill than monster hunter, because simply put, MH is a button smashing JRPG that pretends to play like an action game but doesn't, once you're down to the core.

You then started talking about farming mats and getting gear which I consider preparation and not actual gameplay skill.

Now you're talking about innovation

Next thing we know you'll be talking about the graphics.

You don't see me making medicine analysis do you? So why would you insist in doing so when you're a casual beyond all doubt?

I'm betting my TUS account I'd beat you and your casual friend 2v1 using no magic or consumables, just a sword and a dagger. Just in hopes you stop with the worms analogies and looking like a complete an utter fool. The only draw back of this all is your unjustified ego that won't let you enjoy as game because you think giving up to my more realistic insight would mean losing an argument about the only thing you're good at, so you rather take a very accurate statement I made and talk about everything in the world, if only to find a way out that would mean you were right all along, and that all these years invested in gaming at least give you something in return - the ilusion of being right in a message board.

My TUS account is still up for grabs if you ever feel ready to prove your big talk and make use of all that experience playing God of War on hard mode. Haha.

I think u both need fresh air and a corset =P