Team of experts

[van]

I don't like that list, I don't find most of people there qualified enough, so what do we do now? You guys are trying to play politics in the community that is literally driven by drama. The whole council idea is ridiculous and should be seen as such.
What are your plans, to go for democracy in the council? with 4 people fist forcing any rule as they wish? In avi's list you have 3 people who recently were clanmates and are likely to vote the same way - how's that f@#!ing fair for democracy. It obviously won't work, and all you'll do is piss off a bunch of people.
HHC, setting up a secret forum that hides the decision making process is even more ridiculous, if anything make it open, but allow only certain people to post in it.

That being said, I'm all up for changes proposed in another thread, I think the current schemes are outdated and could be easily improved. I'd just trial test them for a season one by one, without all this. The council idea must be the most moronic thing I've read on tus for years.

[Impossible]

okay here is my list
bb`quilz
P2H`vasiliy
RS`Florenzo
cRw`Juccy-Ju
RwA`Fl4ck
Insane9
General-Butthurt
srv`Vadikus
dt`Mablak

[Statik]

This list of your aliases is not complete xD

[Impossible]

you want me to post full list just like thaat, hahah

[HHC]

What are your plans, to go for democracy in the council? with 4 people fist forcing any rule as they wish? In avi's list you have 3 people who recently were clanmates and are likely to vote the same way - how's that f@#!ing fair for democracy. It obviously won't work, and all you'll do is piss off a bunch of people.

I don't think they will vote exactly the same.
If there would be voting at all. I guess the first step would be to discuss the matters and try to find a certain compromise that everyone in the council approves of. If only 4 people support it and 3 are really against it wouldn't be driven through as far as I see it.
All the people on avi's list (to take an example) are pretty open minded, except free maybe  But the rest is pretty diplomatic. Pretty sure they can figure something out that pleases 'everyone'.
MI would have veto of course. It's his league, any measures that threaten the league's existence can be annulled that way.

HHC, setting up a secret forum that hides the decision making process is even more ridiculous, if anything make it open, but allow only certain people to post in it.

The whole community will start to interfere then and flame ppl if they don't like their opinion. As long as the council members are open to suggestions and discuss their opinions also in the public thread, I don't see any real problem with keeping the actual decisionmaking private.

That being said, I'm all up for changes proposed in another thread, I think the current schemes are outdated and could be easily improved. I'd just trial test them for a season one by one, without all this. The council idea must be the most moronic thing I've read on tus for years.

I don't think the community, in this form, can agree on an alternate scheme to test out. There's just thousands of opinions and everyone sticks to their own. What's MI supposed to do? Pick one forum post out at random that seems worth a try and force that? I don't see it happen.

The changes that have been made so far have been taken after discussion among the TUS staff... in private, not as a result of one of these countless scheme proposal threads.
And that's not because the TUS staff doesn't listen to people, it's because everyone shouts something else.

With 9 or even 11 or 13 experts who know where the schemes are lacking and who know how to reach compromises it will be SIXTY times easier to reach agreements on scheme fixes.
And with MI and the TUS staff looking after everyone's interest and hopefully council members that are not afraid to ask for advice from outside, it should really be an improvement to TUS.

[van]

I don't think they will vote exactly the same.
If there would be voting at all. I guess the first step would be to discuss the matters and try to find a certain compromise that everyone in the council approves of. If only 4 people support it and 3 are really against it wouldn't be driven through as far as I see it.
All the people on avi's list (to take an example) are pretty open minded, except free maybe  But the rest is pretty diplomatic. Pretty sure they can figure something out that pleases 'everyone'.
MI would have veto of course. It's his league, any measures that threaten the league's existence can be annulled that way.

That's how it would work in an utopian world, yes. The thing is, by selecting people from different backgrounds and with different opinions on the matter you'll never find a compromise that would satisfy all of them - because it would also mean that the decision would satisfy everyone in the community (well, maybe besides the most stubborn conservatives), and it will eventually come down to voting. Voting is bad. Why? Because just like Peja said, I'm interested to see what makes some people more qualified than the others and why are we omitting so many important members from even being considered? We'll never reach consensus at the very first step - of picking the right people. (Unless you make it clan dependent, which actually sounds like a less ridiculous idea because more people would be involved in the voting.)
For example, I wouldn't trust free to walk my dog after his posts, but that's just me being subjective, he might very well be the best man for the job in avi's eyes.

The whole community will start to interfere then and flame ppl if they don't like their opinion. As long as the council members are open to suggestions and discuss their opinions also in the public thread, I don't see any real problem with keeping the actual decisionmaking private.

That's why I said certain people, and by that I meant the council people and staff. Limiting the discussion for only council members to see would make the adjustment be questioned by the community from the very start, and what's even worse - the actual competence behind some of the decision makers would be hidden.

I don't think the community, in this form, can agree on an alternate scheme to test out. There's just thousands of opinions and everyone sticks to their own. What's MI supposed to do? Pick one forum post out at random that seems worth a try and force that? I don't see it happen.

The changes that have been made so far have been taken after discussion among the TUS staff... in private, not as a result of one of these countless scheme proposal threads.
And that's not because the TUS staff doesn't listen to people, it's because everyone shouts something else.

With 9 or even 11 or 13 experts who know where the schemes are lacking and who know how to reach compromises it will be SIXTY times easier to reach agreements on scheme fixes.
And with MI and the TUS staff looking after everyone's interest and hopefully council members that are not afraid to ask for advice from outside, it should really be an improvement to TUS.

I absolutely agree with you that the community is incapable of making any changes, that's how democracy work. There will always be people who aren't happy with the decisions. That's why I'm against setting up a council at all and just going full dictatorship on this one. I feel like a lot of people find MonkeyIsland to be incompetent as a league leader just looking at the sole idea of setting up a council and diminishing his role in the community. And honestly, that's where the problem is right now, MI's just being too safe and too conservative with his decisions.
I am perfectly aware how the decision making looked until now. Remember the 7 girder change in t17? People weren't happy at the beginning, but they eventually got used to it (and would never go back to inf) and that's how I see it should be done. Force the /ts in bng, force the change in hyst for a season, see how it plays out. We can talk theory for months, but without actions nothing will change.

[TheKomodo]

what about people maybe not knowing the game inside out but who know how to organise things

Well, you should know what you are organising.



MI & other TuS Staff, I really want to know, are you actually considering this? If you are actually considering this I would like to know as soon as possible because I don't want to continue to play Clanners for this League knowing the future is gonna change into something I don't like, if this happens, & if it's gonna change, to put it bluntly, i'd like to get this entire website out my life as soon as possible. If there is even a small chance this is going to happen, I can at least not participate in League games until a final decision has been made.



One idea I have confidence in is "Classic A/B"

Basically, we keep all the schemes as they are now, let's name these "Classic A" and put them into the "Classic A time period"

We also make an alternative for every Classic scheme, we shall name these "Classic B" and put them into the Classic B time period"

The time period will swap every 7 days (1 week) from A - B - A - B etc... I would suggest a head on the home page as to keep people informed what week it is just incase people forget.

We use all the scheme ideas from franz thread "Top scheme ideas" for the "Classic B".

This is just an example of what it would look like:

BnG / NrBnG
Hysteria / Randomsteria
Elite / 1337
Roper / Pro Roper
T17 / T17.5
WxW / W-W
TTRR / TTRR(5)
Shopper/Shoppa


We do it in such a way, that the schemes aren't TOO different from each other, this means I can enjoy what Free/darKz/ShyGuy etc have to offer as an alternative for Hysteria and other schemes, while still being able to play the version that I think is the best, and vice versa.

I see this as middle ground for everyone, you get what you want while giving the others what they want, personally speaking, this is the only type of option I would be open to.

If people cannot agree to something similar to this, we have no chance, it will just go to show that too many people have too many different opinions.

I would be happy to select a list of Council to create the "Classic B" schemes, and help maintain them, but they should have NO influence on "Classic A" whatsoever.

So what do you think?

[avirex]

omg, another "im leaving tus" threat from komo...


please tus, i beg you... do whatever it takes to get this guy the f@#! out of here!!  lets remove bng from classic if that helps!!


HHC, you really think he should be a part of any council made? lmfao this guy is the least mentally stable person on wnet.

[Free]

Komo, its the 100th time that your telling us your going to quit TUS, we get it already. Sheesh. You really think that any decision Mods are going to make has ANY consideration on the fact that "Komo is gonna quit TUS, if X happens" I can't even put in words how sad you look.

On-topic, there would be no need for council if TUS worked the same way every other WA league has worked so far, reason why I think council would be a good idea is because TUS works with voting principle (in theory it's a nice idea, doesn't work in this community) and by having a council, it makes the voting principle more "fair" and effective. In my opinion someone who has just started to play this game shouldn't have any power to switch the decisions one way or another, he simply lacks the experience and the overall picture of things.

Like said, you can't vote until certain age in real life (because you lack the experience), so what makes one think it's any different in these kind of situations? You could be playing for a week and your allowed to vote. What?

[TheKomodo]

LOL you guys really can't read, I never said I was gonna quit WA did I? Idiots...

See what I mean MI, you can't work with these fools,I propose a very very suitable idea, and all they care about is the question I asked you...

Anyway, what the hell does what I wanna do with my life bother you so much? You are the bunch of drama queens lol.

[avirex]

who said anything about you quiting worms?


me and free both "quoted" you saying "im leaving tus"


and if there is anything dramatic going on here its statements like that...     "im leaving tus is such and such happens" lol..

please do

[Peja]

I just know tus will lose me very soon if something is not done about hyst

[Free]

LOL you guys really can't read, I never said I was gonna quit WA did I? Idiots...

See what I mean MI, you can't work with these fools,I propose a very very suitable idea, and all they care about is the question I asked you...

Anyway, what the hell does what I wanna do with my life bother you so much? You are the bunch of drama queens lol.

You just owned yourself, gj.

[TheKomodo]

Free lol, I replied to YOUR post, it was the only one I read cuz I was basically rolling a smoke before I left for the bus for work, and before you edited it said "quit WA" not TuS.

Nice try guys, it was amusing to see avi get overexcited though

Edit: Anyway, is either of your names MonkeyIsland? I thought not.

[Free]

Free lol, I replied to YOUR post, it was the only one I read cuz I was basically rolling a smoke before I left for the bus for work, and before you edited it said "quit WA" not TuS.

Nice try guys, it was amusing to see avi get overexcited though

Edit: Anyway, is either of your names MonkeyIsland? I thought not.

Maybe you should smoke a little less, now with the addition of being the drama queen, ur starting to make consipracy theories, I only edited "to" word with "for" if that rocks your boat. Nice try though.