Darkone or someone else maybe.

[ShyGuy]

ShyGuy, that is seriously, honestly, a f@#!ING awesome idea...

But, let's think about the only possible con, maybe being able to have mine 1st turn gives 1st player a major advantage? Because sometimes players hide in places that are easy to reach with mine, but hard with zook...

I really like this idea, if the possibility to eradicate what I just said, is available...

I think the cons of zook first turn greatly outweigh that situation.  There aren't many hides that can protect you from nades, zooks, and mines, and the ones that do are extremely cheap and lame, so it is your choice to make the best decision of where to hide.  

The problem now is you can place in a hide that can potentially make you exempt from being hit just because the wind (a luck factor) was a certain way.  Say your opponent hides in a hide that is extremely hard to hit with high red wind and the only way to really hit him is to take some damage yourself... well, if you get that red wind (luck factor), you are screwed.  You can decide to hide where your opponent is, but maybe he will get blue wind and easily hits you.  That person automatically gets a starting advantage just because the wind favored him and not you.  That being said, I think it is ridiculous we still play by that rule; I don't see any logical justification for it that outweighs the cons it brings.  As far as I know, the zook first turn rule was introduced to w2 because they had random placings and it often prevented fd for the person going 2nd.  THIS IS NOT W2, we have manual placings now, and it is time to evolve instead of sticking to foolish tradition

/endrant

[avirex]

yeah, the zook first turn rule was a w2 thing.. because there was random placement... if u were on top, u did not wanna be able to get hit with nades and mines to get FD and shit...

but i think after s*natch made a patch, we edited the settings and made it no weaps first turn, not even para... that way random placement was not an issue at all....

and komo, i hate to bring up the past.. but i remember when u swore up and down you played my w2roper scheme, and i said i know you did not, and if u did prove me wrong and show me a replay... and you could not do that....

now you only prove that u never tried my scheme, by saying what an amazing and groundbreaking idea shyguyz nozook first turn thing is.. lol... that was part of the w2roping scheme buddy  

there is no question the w:a roping scheme is flawed... but no1 wants a change, even when i tried i just got ripped apart.. mainly be people who either did not try the scheme... or do not even rope.. lol... im not saying my scheme was perfect.. but atleast it was a start in the right direction... its a shame that people did not wanna work with me to maybe make that scheme better, instead they just wan ted to protest it all together.. dont matter tho.

[franz]

Crate rape? Take a look at this game:[attachment=1]

angus missed a few full damage turns, like 0:27, 4:28, 6:10, 12:16 just to name some.  his biggest weakness though was his hiding.  when a hard crate came, you should still hustle and grab the crate so that you can hide back where you started, but he just slowly grabs them and hides in weaker spots.  if he improved those missed turns and the hiding, he could have a great chance at winning.

[TheKomodo]

Maybe it's not the scheme, maybe "Roper" in general is flawed lol, in 13-14 years, no one has found perfect conditions for a Roper...

But avi, jus cuz I say ShyGuys idea is nice, don't mean I haven't done a zook 1st Roper before lol.

[Dub-c]

Franz beat this thread over the head with truth. Don't know why its so hard to understand her logic.

[nino]

her lmao...

btw, a simple question, made all this thread and it might change the future of roper on WA.

THATS WHY IAM A f@#!ING LEGEND...LOL

[franz]

[Husk]

this topic is full of win. got a link to fb awards, good debate about roper and awesome posts from the king, is there a way to add a topic to favourites?

[flex]

You guys seem to think that hard crates is the main problem. So that implies that you achieve all the turns with normal/easy ones? Which 90% of people don't, you can miss a turn even when you have an easy crate. In one turn easy crate or not there are so many parameters (like Franz pointed out) that in the end the most consistent player wins.

There are still the impossible ones (and it depends of the player) but if you try to be 100 % consistent in all the turns you will do 90% of the job Just learn to play I guess

[ShyGuy]

I find these arguments irrelevant... whether you are 100% consistent or not doesn't matter... you guys are arguing from a false premise.  

Simply put, the game engine can potentially decide that you don't get to attack.  Saying this doesn't matter because if you are just consistent with other crates, you'll be ok, doesn't even apply to the controversy imo.

Franz, you say the most consistent person will win, yet, if we all started playing more consistently, than one or two bad crates would change the outcome of the game.  You are saying people should be more consistent, but that would just make "crate rape" more prevalent.

Say you have two robots playing and they always hide in the bottom left inside of the island.  They are programmed by deadcode to be able to rope to any crate that isn't tucked in the RIGHT island and attack.  Crates have a large potential to change the game then.  So, in theory, I don't find your solution very sound.  Just my 2 cents worth

Crate rape? Take a look at this game:[attachment=1]

angus missed a few full damage turns, like 0:27, 4:28, 6:10, 12:16 just to name some.  his biggest weakness though was his hiding.  when a hard crate came, you should still hustle and grab the crate so that you can hide back where you started, but he just slowly grabs them and hides in weaker spots.  if he improved those missed turns and the hiding, he could have a great chance at winning.

I just watched this game, and I find it hard to believe how you can honestly say angus would have a great chance of winning.  Why bother saying he missed attacks, for example, at 0:27 when he was robbed out of about 7 or 8 turns because of the game engine?  He was completely raped that game and it was out of his control.  You also say he should have rushed and stuff, but that also doesn't make any sense that a player should put in all of this extra effort just because the game engine ripped him off.  I don't see how you can justify the game engine stealing turns from a player.

[franz]

Shy, mistakes in ropers are very common, and they decide the game way more than crates (the replays don't lie, go look at any of them).  I've never denied that crates do affect every game in some way. My point has always been that in the end the best player that game wins just about every time anyway.

So all arguments that the roper scheme is flawed or maps these days are flawed, or this and that are flawed... just look at any roper replay and realize that the loser's gameplay was flawed in some way, and they should blame themself the most.

I'm repeating myself so much that my posts are turning into hyperlinks to all my previous points  

Edit: I'll reply here to your comments edited in about that angus/HHC game.  Tough crates are not an excuse to play less than your best.  That isn't the mindset you should have if you really want to win because then you are just playing the victim role.  This does nothing but hurt your chances, so don't just automatically give up on a turn just because there is a bad crate.  Try to hustle and return to the best hide, and show your opponent that you are working hard even though a bad crate comes.  Even that can impress your opponent sometimes and make them nervous.  Find the positive in the negative 

[ShyGuy]

You are trying to circumvent the unfairness of crates by saying players should play better.  You aren't actually fixing the unfairness issue at all.  Like I already showed, that premise is false anyway

[franz]

Shy, do you actually have any ideas about fixing the randomness of crates?  Because that's really what seems to be bothering you the most.. so unless there is some great solution that no one has thought of through all these years, we have to accept that health crates drop randomly.  Roper revolves around this until something changes. All my arguments accept the fact that this is how roper is.

So I say to everyone still complaining about crates.. suck it up, and play better    or think of a solution that everyone might accept, kind of like how avi tried to with his w2rope campaign.

[ShyGuy]

Yeah, I had a solution... check the huge w2 roper threads.

[Albino]

Shy, don't bump eat kebab!