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May 02, 2024, 08:26 PM

Author Topic: Team17 has announced Worms WMD  (Read 64345 times)

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Offline Triad

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #330 on: June 03, 2016, 02:58 PM »
I must say I am looking forward to play WMD. It looks and sounds promising. If it will be good as I hope, and let's say even if happens to won't surpass WA, it will be a game I will play regularly for sure. :) Keep up the good work. :D

And yes. I always imagined the perfect Worms title to have lobby like WA for funners and matchmaking for competetive like Rocket League.

Btw how Singleplayer modes will be? For example physics-wise I didn't like Worms Reloaded as much as WA but some missions which had Rope Racing, Jetpack Racing etc were really great idea and I believe if singleplayer missions will have missions that introduces people with rope etc it will be easier to introduce rope-based schemes in competetive. ;D



Offline Jonno_Team17

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #331 on: June 03, 2016, 02:58 PM »
I just hope that the pro scheme in WMD is better than the pro scheme in Clan Wars. In CW there was too much mobility for a 'pro' scheme. Ropes, jetpack, teleport guns, etc. Granted, the ropes aren't as 'powerful' in CW as they will presumably be in WMD, but still. The ranked clanner scheme was even worse. The ranking system should be more in-depth than just one scheme, and you said that depending on performance, your rank can go both up AND down. What exactly does this mean? What metrics are being reviewed?

@Jonno - I want in on that 3v3!

The Jetpack has 50 fuel in this scheme fyi.

This is the pro scheme as it stands, of course subject to potential change before launch.[attachment=1]

Regarding rank, if you keep winning you go up, consistently lose and you'll lower in rank.
Community Manager at Team17

Offline Jonno_Team17

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #332 on: June 03, 2016, 03:00 PM »
I must say I am looking forward to play WMD. It looks and sounds promising. If it will be good as I hope, and let's say even if happens to won't surpass WA, it will be a game I will play regularly for sure. :) Keep up the good work. :D

And yes. I always imagined the perfect Worms title to have lobby like WA for funners and matchmaking for competetive like Rocket League.

Btw how Singleplayer modes will be? For example physics-wise I didn't like Worms Reloaded as much as WA but some missions which had Rope Racing, Jetpack Racing etc were really great idea and I believe if singleplayer missions will have missions that introduces people with rope etc it will be easier to introduce rope-based schemes in competetive. ;D

There rope specific training & challenges :)

Community Manager at Team17

Offline skunk3

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #333 on: June 03, 2016, 03:48 PM »
I just hope that the pro scheme in WMD is better than the pro scheme in Clan Wars. In CW there was too much mobility for a 'pro' scheme. Ropes, jetpack, teleport guns, etc. Granted, the ropes aren't as 'powerful' in CW as they will presumably be in WMD, but still. The ranked clanner scheme was even worse. The ranking system should be more in-depth than just one scheme, and you said that depending on performance, your rank can go both up AND down. What exactly does this mean? What metrics are being reviewed?

@Jonno - I want in on that 3v3!



The Jetpack has 50 fuel in this scheme fyi.

This is the pro scheme as it stands, of course subject to potential change before launch.[attachment=1]

Regarding rank, if you keep winning you go up, consistently lose and you'll lower in rank.

So the ranking system is basically just wins vs. losses? I've always wanted to see an ELO system instead, and more stats than that come into play, such as:

Win rate %
Accuracy
# of worms/HP left at end of match
multi-kills
damage taken

etc, etc

The problem with the ranking system in the games since Reloaded is that it is based on simple wins vs. losses, so as long as someone plays a lot and wins more than they lose on the whole, they will consistently go up in rank. In other words, whoever plays the most will be the highest ranked. (Plus if you look at the leaderboards, people clearly cheat...) In Clan Wars/BG I stopped playing ranked a while back for just that reason. The ranks mean nothing if that's all it's based on. I went like 126-7-2 and stopped playing ranked because there's no incentive when your actual stats aren't publicly viewable. The highest ranked CW/BG players are average players who just so happen to play a lot.

tl;dr - the ranking system needs to be in-depth and based around an ELO system at its core, not just simple wins vs. losses in 1 scheme. I don't care if it is something that would need to be implemented post-launch just so long as it does get implemented.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 03:57 PM by skunk3 »

Offline Jonno_Team17

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #334 on: June 03, 2016, 03:55 PM »
I just hope that the pro scheme in WMD is better than the pro scheme in Clan Wars. In CW there was too much mobility for a 'pro' scheme. Ropes, jetpack, teleport guns, etc. Granted, the ropes aren't as 'powerful' in CW as they will presumably be in WMD, but still. The ranked clanner scheme was even worse. The ranking system should be more in-depth than just one scheme, and you said that depending on performance, your rank can go both up AND down. What exactly does this mean? What metrics are being reviewed?

@Jonno - I want in on that 3v3!



The Jetpack has 50 fuel in this scheme fyi.

This is the pro scheme as it stands, of course subject to potential change before launch.[attachment=1]

Regarding rank, if you keep winning you go up, consistently lose and you'll lower in rank.

So the ranking system is basically just wins vs. losses? I've always wanted to see an ELO system instead, and more stats than that come into play, such as:

Win rate %
Accuracy
# of worms/HP left at end of match
multi-kills
damage taken

etc, etc

We considered many things when thinking about ranked, but ultimately in a competitive game there are two possible outcomes. You win, or you lose.

How you win, whether by crushing victory or the narrowest of margins what matters is the big W.
Community Manager at Team17

Offline skunk3

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #335 on: June 03, 2016, 03:59 PM »
I just hope that the pro scheme in WMD is better than the pro scheme in Clan Wars. In CW there was too much mobility for a 'pro' scheme. Ropes, jetpack, teleport guns, etc. Granted, the ropes aren't as 'powerful' in CW as they will presumably be in WMD, but still. The ranked clanner scheme was even worse. The ranking system should be more in-depth than just one scheme, and you said that depending on performance, your rank can go both up AND down. What exactly does this mean? What metrics are being reviewed?

@Jonno - I want in on that 3v3!



The Jetpack has 50 fuel in this scheme fyi.

This is the pro scheme as it stands, of course subject to potential change before launch.[attachment=1]

Regarding rank, if you keep winning you go up, consistently lose and you'll lower in rank.

So the ranking system is basically just wins vs. losses? I've always wanted to see an ELO system instead, and more stats than that come into play, such as:

Win rate %
Accuracy
# of worms/HP left at end of match
multi-kills
damage taken

etc, etc

We considered many things when thinking about ranked, but ultimately in a competitive game there are two possible outcomes. You win, or you lose.

How you win, whether by crushing victory or the narrowest of margins what matters is the big W.

I edited my previous post.

Yes, I do agree that you either win or you lose (or draw), but ranks shouldn't be calculated as a simple number like wins over losses. Things need to be considered, such as the rank of the other person you're playing, how many times you've played them, frequency of games vs. that person within a particular time frame, etc. In Clan Wars some player could keep getting fed wins by a noob trying to play ranked and get several wins in a row. To me, that doesn't seem very fair. I know because I've played ranked in all of the newer games. The system used in those games simply isn't good enough. Also, stats *need* to be viewable by other players when joining a lobby, ranked or not. I want to be able to see stuff like win rate %, and total wins/losses/draws at the *very* least. I'd prefer to be able to access in-depth stats on anyone that is online, in a global lobby or game lobby.

A modified ELO system is the only ranking system that makes sense for Worms IMO. Otherwise the ranking system is completely meaningless. A mediocre player who wins 55% of the time and plays a lot outranking a player who wins 95% of the time, but doesn't play as many games total just doesn't make sense. 
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 04:14 PM by skunk3 »

Offline Anubis

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #336 on: June 03, 2016, 04:13 PM »
Skunk3 is right, when I am rank 2 I should not be able to be get matches vs. rank 10,9 etc. It should be +/- 1, maybe +/- 2. So as a rank 2 player I would only play vs. rank 4,3,2 and 1.
I hope you don't just throw noob vs. pro into ranked matches and call that good match making. :P

Offline Jonno_Team17

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #337 on: June 03, 2016, 04:17 PM »
Skunk3 is right, when I am rank 2 I should not be able to be get matches vs. rank 10,9 etc. It should be +/- 1, maybe +/- 2. So as a rank 2 player I would only play vs. rank 4,3,2 and 1.
I hope you don't just throw noob vs. pro into ranked matches and call that good match making. :P

No, that's something we want to avoid as much as possible.

But things like worms left, shot accuracy and weapons used etc aren't derivative of a player's skill and shouldn't be factored into your rankings.

Community Manager at Team17

Offline Triad

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #338 on: June 03, 2016, 04:20 PM »
Why not use an elo like TUS leagues? If you want it to be a little bit different, make everything similar with TUS elo but minimum and starting point will be 0. Unlike TUS, you won't go below starting point. Just a suggestion.



Offline skunk3

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #339 on: June 03, 2016, 04:21 PM »
Skunk3 is right, when I am rank 2 I should not be able to be get matches vs. rank 10,9 etc. It should be +/- 1, maybe +/- 2. So as a rank 2 player I would only play vs. rank 4,3,2 and 1.
I hope you don't just throw noob vs. pro into ranked matches and call that good match making. :P

What I'm saying is that wins should be worth a certain amount of points, not just +1 if you win and -1 if you lose.

If you play a bunch of rank 10 people as a rank 2 player (if that is even possible), you should get very little boost to your score/rank. (If anything.) However, if you're a rank 10 newbie player and beat someone who is a rank 1, you should get a ton of points. Otherwise the noob only gets +1?? That's dumb.

As far as the range in which you can play others in ranked matches, I dunno. I imagine that as you go higher in rank it would be harder and harder to find a match, so keeping it to +/- 1 or 2 might not work, depending on how many people actually decide to purchase and seriously play WMD.

This is why an ELO system would work so much better. There's no real incentive for a high-ranking player to play a low-ranking player, aside from a very marginal increase that goes down every time you play that person within a certain period of time. This would prevent noob bashing and present a much more accurate representation of who actually has skills and who doesn't. One should only be able to progress in rank by earning it by beating decent players, not by mowing through noobs or setting up dummy accounts and faking wins.

If it is just +1 if you win and -1 if you lose, I won't even play ranked. There's no incentive because that ranking system means nothing for reasons I already illustrated. It'd just be a boring, meaningless grind.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 04:38 PM by skunk3 »

Offline Lex

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #340 on: June 03, 2016, 04:23 PM »
Yup.  Pretty much every rated ladder with automatic matchmaking (League of Legends, World of Warcraft arena, World of Tanks, Starcraft 2) these days uses such a system.  It's quite fun and fair, which helps popularity.

Offline Jonno_Team17

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #341 on: June 03, 2016, 05:02 PM »
Yup.  Pretty much every rated ladder with automatic matchmaking (League of Legends, World of Warcraft arena, World of Tanks, Starcraft 2) these days uses such a system.  It's quite fun and fair, which helps popularity.

Remember crew, this is an overview of the multiplayer!

Let's focus on the information you now have - more will be revealed as we move forward and everything is locked in :)
Community Manager at Team17

Offline Lex

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #342 on: June 03, 2016, 05:08 PM »
Are you saying that the rating system is still undecided?  Some clarity would be helpful.

Offline nino

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #343 on: June 03, 2016, 05:34 PM »
Jonno could you guys build a worm with a crown?

That would be my custom worm player  ;D
You Are Losing Time Reading my Signature.

Offline skunk3

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #344 on: June 03, 2016, 05:35 PM »
Jonno could you guys build a worm with a crown?

That would be my custom worm player  ;D
There's been crown hats before. :)