NNN merging with TUS

[Bytor]

Interesting, All hall Kilo

[Koras]

Interesting, All hall Kilo

lol, it have to be fake 
what kind of shit? i do not see anything really bad

[TitiO]

loool.. but its true ^^

I think the main reason for this thread should be for benefit of the Intermediate scheme and, by consequence, the WA overall community.

NNN is not a common clan. They are a clan that represents a whole and important part of the WA community. I really respect their history and all that they did for Intermediate scheme. But we can't live being completely faithful to the past traditions but we should adapt to our present, keeping the future in mind.

So I think that NNN should stops to have their separate site and, probably forum, and merge it to TUS. Why? To achieve a much high number of people playing, seriously and in a high level, the Intermediate scheme. Among other reasons. I'll try to explain.

Open Normal League (ONL) acitvity is not doing bad. At least, their admins are not unhappy with their activity, but I'm sure that, being Intermediate lovers like they are, they would like to have as much activity as possible. I think that is a real important part of what define the success of the ONL. Quality of the game, can be bring by consequence of the higher activity. So, to be clear, with this merge, we all could aim for a significant higher activity for the Inter scheme.

People, by default, are lazy to deal in a daily basis with different sites, systems, building a nice profile in different systems, etc and they tend to be faithful only to the system that they like more. Unfortunately or not, the design and the looks are a major reason in our nowadays world. It's my opinion and despite some contrary opinions, I think its consensual that the majority of WA players prefer the TUS design than the NNN site.
Also, the Intermediate scheme is a wonderful scheme, but others are too and, they could achieve and aim to have more TUS regular people that like so much or more, other schemes to play an Inter league just because it is hosted in TUS site and they are familiar with it.

You could say, but TUS already had the TNL and it was not successful. But it's not hard to understand that it happened due to ONL existence and because it kept their main and real pros players. Also because, an Inter league should not be played with some other regular ranking TUS league. The ladder ranking system of ONL is almost perfect for an Inter league. This is hard to explain, but if you play it for some time, you will understand it.
If we look from TUS Inter cups, we see some TUS regular players that play in it, that usually don't play at ONL. For ones who are yet with doubts that ONL at TUS could achieve a significant better activity than ONL has nowadays, think that if TUS didn't organizes TEL but it was NNNs who would hosted an Elite league at their site. Am I the only one that thinks they wouldn't have 1/4 of the acitvity that TEL has now? I think not.

There was a time where different separate communities existed with their own separate leagues. But please, it's very important, check this stats: http://stats.worms2d.info/. Did you noticed that since 2002/2003, the number of games hosted was constant but low until the middle of 2007, and after it had a great grow until 2010 and stabilized during 2010? This grow can be due to different reasons but,  for sure it is also due to TUS appearance. It happened when TUS appeared and started to pump. So, this is another proof that with a single but global domain, for all communities and competitions, we can achieve a great success for the WA overall community.
NNNs are a clan that are used to decide their own life and they represent a very important part of the history of this game, such as in the present. So, the afraid of a lost of power to decide the format and whatever they think that could be good for Intermediate scheme, is completely understandable. I don't defend any merge! But a merge that preserve the singularities of the NNN clan and the all Intermediate community. The ladder ranking system should be the same or as much similar as possible, they should kept all the power and control of any Intermediate competition, like kick an asshole that would appear at that competitions for example, their own part of the forum with their respective private section. Aswell as many many things. Kilo and MI should plan and manage it carefully to store all data that are at NNN site and forum, etc etc.
It would give a lot of work, probably it could not be perfect, but for sure it would be worthy and the outcome, as an Intermediate player and a WA player, would be great!

n1 read it ? 

[Kilobyte]

Bytor has just registered to say it 

But the things aren't so easy like that. Yes, we did NOT changed our mind, how unbelievably as it may seen. No Tenoritaiga, it didn't need a year. We just asked about TUS community opinion, not more. Because only we were asked, you haven't. To be honest I expected more negative answers (still can happen )

All I did this just because of Ivo - he accused us selfishness, he left NNN because of that, and after some days I had to realize it's still disturbing his soul (I hope you know what I thought of....). Sadly what you told and how, forced me need to clarify ourselves, but I told it in 100 times: we don't refuse it immediately, I'm not against it, now MI knows it, but it's in the future still.

[domi]

I think the main reason for this thread should be for benefit of the Intermediate scheme and, by consequence, the WA overall community.

NNN is not a common clan. They are a clan that represents a whole and important part of the WA community. I really respect their history and all that they did for Intermediate scheme. But we can't live being completely faithful to the past traditions but we should adapt to our present, keeping the future in mind.

So I think that NNN should stops to have their separate site and, probably forum, and merge it to TUS. Why? To achieve a much high number of people playing, seriously and in a high level, the Intermediate scheme. Among other reasons. I'll try to explain.

Open Normal League (ONL) acitvity is not doing bad. At least, their admins are not unhappy with their activity, but I'm sure that, being Intermediate lovers like they are, they would like to have as much activity as possible. I think that is a real important part of what define the success of the ONL. Quality of the game, can be bring by consequence of the higher activity. So, to be clear, with this merge, we all could aim for a significant higher activity for the Inter scheme.

People, by default, are lazy to deal in a daily basis with different sites, systems, building a nice profile in different systems, etc and they tend to be faithful only to the system that they like more. Unfortunately or not, the design and the looks are a major reason in our nowadays world. It's my opinion and despite some contrary opinions, I think its consensual that the majority of WA players prefer the TUS design than the NNN site.
Also, the Intermediate scheme is a wonderful scheme, but others are too and, they could achieve and aim to have more TUS regular people that like so much or more, other schemes to play an Inter league just because it is hosted in TUS site and they are familiar with it.

You could say, but TUS already had the TNL and it was not successful. But it's not hard to understand that it happened due to ONL existence and because it kept their main and real pros players. Also because, an Inter league should not be played with some other regular ranking TUS league. The ladder ranking system of ONL is almost perfect for an Inter league. This is hard to explain, but if you play it for some time, you will understand it.
If we look from TUS Inter cups, we see some TUS regular players that play in it, that usually don't play at ONL. For ones who are yet with doubts that ONL at TUS could achieve a significant better activity than ONL has nowadays, think that if TUS didn't organizes TEL but it was NNNs who would hosted an Elite league at their site. Am I the only one that thinks they wouldn't have 1/4 of the acitvity that TEL has now? I think not.

There was a time where different separate communities existed with their own separate leagues. But please, it's very important, check this stats: http://stats.worms2d.info/. Did you noticed that since 2002/2003, the number of games hosted was constant but low until the middle of 2007, and after it had a great grow until 2010 and stabilized during 2010? This grow can be due to different reasons but,  for sure it is also due to TUS appearance. It happened when TUS appeared and started to pump. So, this is another proof that with a single but global domain, for all communities and competitions, we can achieve a great success for the WA overall community.
NNNs are a clan that are used to decide their own life and they represent a very important part of the history of this game, such as in the present. So, the afraid of a lost of power to decide the format and whatever they think that could be good for Intermediate scheme, is completely understandable. I don't defend any merge! But a merge that preserve the singularities of the NNN clan and the all Intermediate community. The ladder ranking system should be the same or as much similar as possible, they should kept all the power and control of any Intermediate competition, like kick an asshole that would appear at that competitions for example, their own part of the forum with their respective private section. Aswell as many many things. Kilo and MI should plan and manage it carefully to store all data that are at NNN site and forum, etc etc.
It would give a lot of work, probably it could not be perfect, but for sure it would be worthy and the outcome, as an Intermediate player and a WA player, would be great!

n1 read it ? 

Are you so f@#!ing lazy you can't read a serious post about a serious topic?

[TitiO]

lol stfu, i said that i didnt read ?

  =X

[Ivo]

I didn't quit NNNs only because of this. I pointed 3 main reasons that I was against in the clan life, and this is just one of them.

All I did this just because of Ivo - he accused us selfishness, he left NNN because of that, and after some days I had to realize it's still disturbing his soul (I hope you know what I thought of....).

I think this does not matter for here, but since you pushed it here...
When I talk about "two faces guy" was only because of this: read the private chat that we had about this subject at msn, some weeks ago I left the clan, and read the text that you wrote (about this TUS part) in NNNs private forum when I announced my NNNs renunciation. Compare both and tell me if I don't have reasons to stayed perplexed with your words. You said so silly things in that text and so different than what you said me at msn, that I had to conclude that you have a type of speech different privately and another for clans private forum posts.

Also I never accused you (clan) directly, of being selfish, I used the words: "is ALMOST a selfish way of thinking", when I was speaking if the reasons to not merge is because if you are thinking in preserving your power and control about things, instead of thinking in the benefit of the scheme that you love. I was trying to say that, for me, the scheme and the WA overall community, is more important than any clan, or it's proud to be different!
 
But... NEXT!!

I think this thread would only makes sense if you, NNNs, would really interested in discussing it. You open it, asked people opinion, but at the same time, you are saying that you are not considering this merge for now, and don't point reasons for not doing it.
So, unfortunately, I think this is only a waste of time.

[Kilobyte]

then I wrote Im able for doing it in the future, but not right now. Im saying it this time too. I thought we could close it then, but later you again brought up this topic when you left us, among harder words. Ok, I tried to enlighten you: its a nice dream, but it also has serious problems, and technical dangers. Its one-sided to think: if TUS wont merge with NNN, no problem, but if NNN wont merge with TUS immedialty, oh you leave it (of course I know this was silly, TUS > NNN, Im aware of it, but I hope I could explain this). And about yesterday: I dont know why you now demand it, but if you felt OK yourself in OIL, TUS members felt OK with their system, why do you care soo much about WA global community?

[MonkeyIsland]

Merging is not a hard thing to do, at least not as much as it may seem. I gotta do coding on TUS leagues part to adjust it with NNN's system. Forum posts can be converted.
The most difficult part is the decision NNN has got to make. There certainly will be some issues in the merging process but those shouldn't be our concern at this moment. There will be a way once the decision is made.
Focusing at other things at this stage is overthinking and it will cause delay.

That's my point of view on this matter.

@TitiO, please do not spam. I won't ask again.

[Ivo]

I don't demand nothing Kilo. It was you who opened this thread. But, again,

then I wrote Im able for doing it in the future, but not right now.

why this? Could you explain why you say this?

its a nice dream, but it also has serious problems, and technical dangers.

Honestly, did you had some chats with MI to conclude it? Wouldn't be him, with your help, that would do the majority of the coding at TUS site? If you really believe it's a nice dream, why don't you stop the work you are having in the present with the development of a brand new ONL site, instead focusing in the effort of the merge?

I dont know why you now demand it, but if you felt OK yourself in OIL, TUS members felt OK with their system, why do you care soo much about WA global community?

I think I answered it clearly with my big and bored text. I think with my head and I follow what I believe it's the right path. I can't hide myself inside a clan, if I think that this clan, keeping the main Intermediate competition outside TUS, are "damaging" the scheme potential (to grow in activity) because of some hypothetical desire to be or remain "different". Thing is, beer said a big true when he spoke that humbleness and proud is involved here. We know how some NNNs members talk about some "TUS people" and for me, this type of things are a really bullshit.

I would like to know the real reasons to be against the merge (for now or forever). As I said in my big and bored text, some afraids are understandable because its a huge modification, but with will, a good effort, things well planned, things can be done almost perfectly! We are not talking about a travel to Mars!

But you can rest, after this thread dead, I will not give any first step (as I didn't here) toward this subject.

[Ivo]

I was writing my previous post when MI posted his.
It's not technical issues and work amount that is preventing this merge... 

[franz]

what's stopping you from going back to separate leagues if it doesn't work out?  is there a fear that it won't be possible to de-merge?

[darKz]

I don't think there's gonna be a lot of trouble merging things, the main problem is.. Does everyone want the merge? It would bring a lot of benefits to the whole community, like more accessability, more popularity to the Intermediate scheme, more activity to the forums on both sides.. But NNN would give up their "independancy".. You know what I mean.. Right now they're a kind of special club that not everyone can join, will they keep that state? Etc etc.. But even after considering every single point that I could come up with I don't see a really negative one.. And you NNN guys know I do like your scheme, it's awesome.

So the bottom line for me is.. Just have fun and make the best out of it! <

By the way sorry for not visiting the forums very often these days, I gotta get up at 5:30am every day and get home like 5:30pm.

[THeDoGG]

Merging NNN and TUS is a good idea, in theory.
But in reality it would give to TUS more complexity, with one new ranking/points system.

IMO the right thing to do is to create a team, share the knowledge and start building TUS 2.0

[SPW]

I agree to darkz, nice words. I can underline everything there, really like my own thoughts.

I like the NNN-Community and they are great wormers and nice persons. But I dont know if such a merging will work. I hope, but we will see.

Intermediate is a nice pro scheme and everything important (technical, tactical, variaty) is included to have some nice fights game by game. I dont see any leaks at this scheme - it's almost perfect. Its a part of Worms Armageddon and it will be that till this game dies.

Anyway, wishing you good luck, NNN's