IF you remove an element that is supposed to save you, it becomes a risky endeavour that can promote confidence. If one cannot trust their own ability without the risk factor, then there is no valor and confidence in their roping. I play against people in funners that plays serious and with valor. You must realize that Komodo.

QuoteMost situations where parachute is actually deployed because of a failure, you need your opponent to make a mistake as well or chances are you won't catch up, you seem to think parachute makes you invincible, it does not.

Parachute makes you cast responsibilities aside and rope risk free, while without parachute you can do the same but with skills and confidence.  IF you fail that is on you, and if you can't catch up, then you have a formidable foe that outperforms you. It is your job to accumulate the necessary dexterity to match or surpass the suppressing opponent.

QuoteIf you want to provoke serious play and get people serious, then make a League, make something to actually play for,

You don't realize how clueless you are.  You can play serious among friends, I have done it before. There is no need to play a league to show who is the best.

Sensei is only reading these posts because he's not a fan of me. No secret there. So he thrives heavily on your futile effort in proving that you are right, because Komodo, it doesn't make it true But I am glad your blind sense of truth brings you two closer.

So to sum up the pros and cons with and without parachute

With parachute
Safety net, like diapers, you fall safe on your ass.
Allows for quick recovery and ignore fails (Komodo thinks the latter is wrong, not according to Kradie).
Allows for freestyle combined with rope and parachute maneuvering.

Without parachute
Increased focus and awareness of ones roping and maneuvering across various paths and obstacles.
Allows for extreme punishment if one is not paying enough attention.
Allows for risky high speed roping combined with freestyle.

That should be the end of it. I have tried my best to explain. If I were to explain any further, I would need to make a picture book for dummies.

I am not blind. It's the truth.

Of course, I have a firm foothold in the online community of WA.

I never said I was insulted. But the way you presented your narrowed view seemed rather degrading and condescending.

Nothing to lose? Sure there is. It all depends on the mood of the game and the people that are there. E.g, at times I try to provoke serious play and people get serious, and at the end of the way win or lose, we all laugh about it. Also, every game, competitive or not, every move is a risk. It isn't without risk, otherwise it wouldn't be a risk to play the game.

Komodo, I am not in this thread to strive and get your blessings of being a capable roper. I am here to discuss our disagreements and your disjointed view on things. It is good for the reader to see both sides of the coin.

QuoteBut i'm glad you admit you only play funners and rarely partake in serious and competitive games, which everyone already knows.

It's pretty funny stuff, you going round trying to claim you are some big shot roper who is hardcore because you don't use parachute, and it's the true test of skill etc, and here is the kicker, you very rarely even play serious competitive games, so who gives a f**k if you fall without parachute in a ZaR funner cuz it doesn't mean sh*t anyway LOL!!!

Playing funners requires no risk whatsoever, so even without parachute it's still f**king meaningless lol, it's hilarious after all the talk about "mentally speaking, because you don't have parachute you have this extra awareness blah blah blah" and you don't even know what it's like to compete at the highest level of this game for the glory and respect of other players, and sometimes prizes, which takes more confidence than playing a funner without parachute lol.

Admit that I play funners? Everyone knows that I am not into the league. I wasn't in some denial but the point was you can still earn recognition and respect same as you would do by playing the league. Apparently it is you that is more irrelevant compared to me and here is why. Since 2014, I have barely witnessed any sort of activity from you, and if you were active, you were playing with your own secluded dart group which isn't really noteworthy these days. You have no foothold in todays WA, you don't know how ZaR does it there. I am confident that people are more aware of ZaR than Darts nowadays.

You have just insulted a lot of people on WA with your pride and your ego. People there don't care much for competitive games, it is more about having a good time together. I seriously doubt people wants to do their worst just because it isn't a serious game. Why have a PvP game then? Most people obviously wants to TRY to win, and TRY to get better. I have seen many people gotten better over time by just playing funners.

I don't need to compete for glory and respect from other players. Many of these ''other aristocrats'' aren't worth my time. A lot of their behavior like yours now, are to condescending and arrogant. It is very unbecoming, and embarrassing.

I can safely say I am more capable roper because of no parachute. I guess you rely on it too much to rope with confidence,

QuoteKradie, who do you think you are speaking to by the way?

Do you think you are speaking to someone with zero experience of roping?

I hate to sound egotistical but i'm vastly more experienced and skilled in roping than you are, I have played with and against most of the best players that have ever existed in this game, so why are you attempting to educate me on things I knew about before you even started playing this game?

Whom I be speaking to? To someone who is only talk and no play. Even if you did play, you would probably excuse your inferior roping because of absence of the game. You can tell me ''Well Kradie, I have replays and league statistics to back me up''. Sure I can get by that. But then you are proving something to a guy who only plays funners and rarely partake in serious and competitive games. Sure I don't try to lose, and I do Improve as time goes on. But then you can say ''Well, you Improve more in competitive play''.- Sure, but that's not how I role. I don't need yours and anyone else's blessing to validate my skills. I know enough when it comes to roping.

QuoteI need to ask, why do you keep saying things, that everybody is already aware of?

You think you are saying these things to support your arguement, but anyone with any roping experience knows otherwise.

Obviously not everybody is aware of it, that's why I am pointing things out in my posts.

QuoteAs for doing ropers without parachute since Worms 2, and longer than you've played WA for, you haven't heard about it, because you either didn't associate with the right people, you weren't paying attention, or you don't remember.

People did play games without parachute in the scheme, but it has never been a League scheme, and it most definitely has never been popular, but yes, people enjoy doing it from time to time.

Oh I payed attention, and I did play with a broad range of ropers.  It should have been a league scheme tbh.

QuoteWhat you and I consider popular are 2 very different things, it's like me saying Darts was a popular scheme, which in at it's peak, saw more activity than ZaR ever did, and I still wouldn't call Darts popular, not even remotely.

ZaR was never part of the league system so you have the advantage of making your unfair claim. ZaR have the most members, all consisting of passionate ropers, and fan of ZaR scheme(s). So technically, ZaR is more popular than Darts and is still played today. With no parachute

QuoteCollecting all that data would literally take months, i'm not going to do that to prove one person wrong, I already know i'm right, I don't even need to prove you wrong lol, I just enjoy debating and discussing things i'm passionate about, helping to educate others, and as I said before, I don't want other people feeling bad about using parachute because of your opinions.

Despite the overwhelming poll results, I still stand tall and firmly. I believe I am right, as much as you believe your opinions are right. We can throw punches at each other as much as we want, but the results are likely to be the same. People should be able to decide for themselves if they are OK with using no parachute in popular rope schemes. It is not about changing the league, and schemes. It is what you are comfortable roping without it or not, and are there benefits to either options etc.

QuoteAnd I don't play ZaR because I find it too gimmicky, it's not as good as other roping schemes in my opinion, but I did still support ZaR to be used in TRL, I did want to play, but life took an unexpected turn for me while the season was active.

Gimmicky doesn't necessary have to be a bad thing. Also new people wouldn't know or care unless if e.g you started to play and yell from the roof tops about how gimmicky and horrible ZaR is And I appreciate your support anyway.

Quote from: Rogi on August 07, 2019, 11:33 PM
Kradie, i know you hate parachute IRL and scared try jump someday xD

Lmao! Yeah my home is a private jet that flies thousands of meters above sea level. Once in a while another jet comes with food supplies and fuel. So the only way down is to jump with NO parachute. 

QuoteFor starters, doing pumps in an actual game, is extremely risky, with or without parachute.

Even with parachute most fails,  do actually result in losing total control of worm and your turn ending, because they are so fast and hit against the walls at such tremendous speed,

Moves like pumps, are one of the harder moves to master in roping, and a parachute isn't going to be much help at all if you fail.

If you actually had as much experience as some of us, and played with as many other Ropers as some of us, you might realize this.

To do a fast kick/pump from the bottom wall in a roper, is very useful to bring yourself quickly up to the upper level of the map. There's not much reasons to do many executives firing of rope to go up. IF you can't trust your experience enough without falling, you aren't very experienced.

QuoteI really disagree with you here, I think the move itself makes it interesting, it has nothing to do with using parachute or not.

And the move itself makes it impressive and yet interesting with no parachute.

QuoteWhy do you think using no parachute is a new idea? Even ZaR Roper isn't an original creation, it's a combination of things that have been done before, people have been doing ropers without parachute since Worms 2, let alone Worms Armageddon.

People have been doing ropers without parachute since W2 and WA? Well why haven't I heard anything about that? I've been roping since 2003 and back then there were no roping without parachute, only a few games with bazooka and that was considered pro.

These combination are things that makes ZaR popular and intuitive for many! Many people that plays ZaR schemes without parachute loves the idea having no parachute. But what do you know? You don't really play the game.

QuoteI am confident enough to bet my life on it, but on the other hand it's not important enough to spend my time because it would take a lot of time going through 15+ years of replays, websites and history, talking to other people and interviewing them about their experiences and going through their replays as well.

I would only do that sort of thing if I had a huge incentive to do it, not just to prove something to you, that to most other people, is already obvious.

Also, I would need something of an incentive for the other people I would question because more than likely they would say "I don't care" when I try to talk to them about it lol.

So there is no proof then. So don't present it as fact.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 07, 2019, 01:59 PM
Sorry for late reply I had a date last night.

I don't see the added discipline where the 2 end results of falling with and without parachute are:

Fail and lose, and fail and lose.

It is not a "tremendous advantage", it's just the way things are, because it's widely considered better to use parachute, the point of saying the past 20 years is because the vastly superior general consensus proves using parachute is favoured, and it has nothing to do with pretty much anything you are saying.

It has been documented and proven actually, we have replays, experience, and most of us, common sense.

YOUR opinion is "one sided as f**k" because you seem to be the only one on these forums who feels that way, I haven't saw a single person other than you say anything like you have, not just on these forums, but online, ever.

If you are doing a pump from a wall in a roper or rope race, chances are you CAN hit the wall and causes a fall. If you have parachute, it will save you, if not, you FALL. Precision, accurate handling of rope is key to eliminate such accident. I am not claiming you have to be nonhuman to do 100% perfect turns, but no parachute will make it more interesting.. Because it is your fault if you fall or slide of an edge.

It is widely acknowledged and accepted because there haven't been anything to oppose it. So you are saying it have been proven, with parachute only. That is one sided. No one thought of having no parachute in schemes in the past. Perhaps some tried but gave up. Can you really prove anything without the other? Only proof that you have is that there are 20 years of only parachute, replays and a few zar games and arguments here.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 06, 2019, 09:02 AM

Quote from: Kradie on August 06, 2019, 08:22 AM
As far as I know, when I maneuver through various paths and obstacles of all forms and sizes, I am constantly aware of the fact that there is no parachute to bail me out due to a slip-up. But same can be said about having parachute too, but with no parachute, it adds extra layer.

Let's talk about Big RR and TTRR which are the main roping schemes where you don't take advantage of knocking with parachute(even though the following applies to all rope schemes).

With or without parachute, you are constantly aware, especially when competing against the best players in the world where every second counts, that if you make 1 mistake you can lose the game.

With or without parachute, people are always trying their hardest not to fail.

True, but again, without parachute it can add an extra layer of discipline not to fail.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 06, 2019, 09:02 AM
I'd prefer to say learning to rope without parachute is more needlessly punishing, less efficient and generally takes longer to master rope.

History is proof of that in itself, it's 20 years Kradie, if roping without parachute was so groundbreaking, so awesome, so incredibly impressive then everyone would be doing it, think about that.

20 years with parachute, gives it a tremendous advantage against no parachute. Parachute is simply embedded into the brain of players, that it makes it extremely difficult for them to consider no parachute option. Sure you could say ''Well Kradie, if people LOVE NO parachute, just disable it in hostingbuddy''. It ain't that easy as I explained it. Plus parachute has a monopoly.
Groundbreaking? When I made Zar it was looked at groundbreaking. Even people enjoy big rr without parachute. They have told me that they found it more interesting.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 06, 2019, 09:02 AM
As i've already said, the biggest difference between learning to rope with and without parachute, is time.

You are not using your time wisely if you aren't using parachute to learn how to rope, you are wasting your time.

Once you are good enough to rope around confidently, then, if you fancy showing a display of confidence, you can remove the parachute, but I still think it's wise to keep parachute just in the event of a lag spike or screen tear etc.

I think that's a bit subjective viewpoint actually.  It haven't been documented and proven. Your only source of statistics would be the 20 year with parachute, which itself is biased & one sided as f@#!.

QuoteYou are claiming, that without parachute, you will be more aware of your maneuvering skills, which is bollux, because the rope physics stay the same with or without parachute, and you can still see everything that you will be using to connect rope to to maneuver with.

Where do you even get these ideas???

So, wait, are you suggesting people learn how to rope without parachute? Or people who already know how to rope should just do it without parachute?

Because either way I don't see the point in arguing this topic, if they want to play ZaR for example, a scheme without parachute, they will just do it, and get better naturally with practise.

As far as I know, when I maneuver through various paths and obstacles of all forms and sizes, I am constantly aware of the fact that there is no parachute to bail me out due to a slip-up. But same can be said about having parachute too, but with no parachute, it adds extra layer.

People can learn to rope with or without parachute. Without parachute is more hardcore.

QuoteAlso in Big RR, which I guess could be done without parachute, but still you can generally get better faster because you aren't losing time when you fall, so you get to keep going, and when the mistake is made with or without parachute, it's still obvious where the mistake was made, and you will learn from your mistakes.

Yes I can get by that too. But, when you fail from a climb, and your turn ends, it can add as an extra punch to the face, telling you to do it better. But with parachute, it deploys all the time, and it can give a false sense of accomplishment. Sure you could get better, but if you switch to no parachute, the painstakingly mistake will be more obvious to consider and analyze.

Quote from: lalo on August 05, 2019, 10:52 PM
Kradie has never been a revelant roper or player, why would anyone waste time discussing what is the better way to improve roping with a nobody lol.

That's funny, because I think majority of veterans and experienced players here are nobodies. Here is why. People like Lalo sees themselves as aristocrats on high horses that walks above and on people without knowing them. How? Well think about it, do we see any of legacy & skilled players mingle with the commoners on Wormnet? Do we see them just play funners with new people that they never met?  No. Because they're more busy counting their league points, and judging everyone else. If someone were to take the time to appreciate the current state of WA, then WA could thrive more. But no one here seem to care so much, instead they bath in their own egotistical filth and self-righteousness.

So seeing Komodo even bothering discussing here with me is commendable and he have earned some of my respect because of this. Just because we don't agree on everything, doesn't mean we have to be enemies. That's just how it is.

You might say that I am not relevant, and experienced, but that's something I would expect from coming from majority of you that have had couple of games with me. Some of you I have never had a decent conversation with.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 05, 2019, 08:51 PM
#4 - That's an outrageous claim, with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

Think about it, while you navigate on rope, chances are (No idea of %, depend on skills, scenario etc) you can accidentally hit/slide on whatever terrain and objects that you try to maneuver through & around. This can result a turn to be saved with parachute, while with no parachute, it will not be there. But there are no study on this to support this claim, it will likely never be documented.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 05, 2019, 08:51 PM
You ask "How about master without it?" and the simple answer is because it saves time and you can learn how to rope quicker without having to worry about wasting time waiting on your next turn.

Yeah I don't think you have roped with parachute more than most people here, but this one is hard to prove so we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

I mastered it pretty quickly, and so have many others. Why should it be difficult for a veteran? Oh you probably meant beginners.

All opinions are subjective, but if it sounds like I pass my own opinion as facts, that's because I believe it. Just as you believe in your own opinion.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 05, 2019, 06:11 PM

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
So when I started to implement my own comparison, it is not ok?

It would be ok, if you hadn't said it wasn't ok, then proceeded to do it yourself anyway. This is the reason we're stuck in this loop, and i'll keep going until you admit it, or shut-up.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
I think having NO parachute teaches discipline.

That's fine, because you said you think 1st, you didn't present it as a fact, that's ok.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
Your focus level increases with NO parachute.

Bullsh*t, your focus level will increase, by simply focusing more, with or without parachute, stop talking sh*t Kradie.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
You will be more aware with NO parachute.

More aware of what? The Bolivian Navy on manoeuvres in the South Pacific? You can't even 100% complete a sentence...

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
You can be super fast and do freestyle with NO parachute.

Yep, you are right there, but the same applies if you said "You can be super fast and do freestyle with parachute".

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
You can still have the same amount of fun with NO parachute.

You can, but also, you may not.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
But with parachute, you plant a seed in your brain, and you will remember that you are SAFE with parachute. While you are FEARLESS without parachute.

Bullsh*t, you are not safe with parachute, you are safer with parachute, but you are not safe, you can still fall, you can still end turn, you can still fail.

You're talking sh*t again Kradie.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
I am not biased.

Yes you are.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
I have roped with parachute more than most people here

No you haven't.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
People who have NOT fought hard will NEVER know discipline

Playing Worms Armageddon is not fighting hard.

You're talking sh*t again. Stop talking sh*t Kradie.

Since you obviously struggle to understand what discipline means:



Therefor, you can be extremely disciplined with or without parachute in Worms Armageddon.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
I have overcome roping without parachute.

Well done, you learned something anyone else can do but most choose not to because nobody gives a f**k, bravo!

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
It sounds like I am contradicting myself, doesn't it?

No, it makes you sound like you are talking sh*t again Kradie.

1. Then it wouldn't be ok of you to start addressing it. I figured why the hell not since everyone else did.

2. I still believe it is best method of discipline and for hardcore gameplay.

3. There is no shit here Komodo. You want to focus more to avoid navigational error.

4. More aware of your maneuvering skills Komodo.

5. It is more noteworthy without parachute and freestyle.

6. Yep.

7. Still without parachute, you will be more careful by default, yet have super agility. But with parachute, you are automatically accustomed with the thought parachute will be there to save you. This is where many skilled players falls victim with their petty lines ''I miss chute''. How about master without it?

8. Nope. We can say yes and no all day long.

9. 7 years of roping.

10. If you wish not to improve, go easy and have fun without taking responsibility. Otherwise, man up and take ownership of yourself.

11. Majority don't, because they aren't capable of sustaining the required mastering of no parachute. IT is embarrassing, less experienced players play just fine without parachute.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 05, 2019, 07:29 AM
Twisting your words? I quoted exactly what you said.

So now we've reached the point where i've used your own words against you, and you can't handle that.

If you want to make ridiculous assumptions, give up, and then in a more polite fashion, say the equivalent of "screw you guys, i'm going home"(that's a South Park reference in case you don't understand), that's fine by me.

If your purpose was truly just to find out what people prefer, chute or no chute, you would have simply asked that and said no more, and so here we are.

This topic was to find out whether people prefer parachute in rope based schemes or not. It is also about why, and  to have a discussion based on that. Then someone said ''Parachute in rope schemes is like helmet when on motorcycle.''- A real life comparison. So when I started to implement my own comparison, it is not ok? Roping with parachute, is like fences when playing bowling.

So yes, here we are, because you are building a narrative of your own design. Yet, you aren't willing to listen so I will try again to explain. I think having NO parachute teaches discipline. Your focus level increases with NO parachute. You will be more aware with NO parachute. You can be super fast and do freestyle with NO parachute. You can still have the same amount of fun with NO parachute.
But with parachute, you plant a seed in your brain, and you will remember that you are SAFE with parachute. While you are FEARLESS without parachute.

I am not biased. I have roped with parachute more than most people here, and still there are rare instances where I do have parachute in roping schemes like Warmer. People who have NOT fought hard will NEVER know discipline, and I have overcome roping without parachute. It sounds like I am contradicting myself, doesn't it? I like Coca Cola Zero more than regular Coke, but that doesn't mean I avoid it all together. It is rare instances where consume it.

You are clearly not fit to discuss this particular matter. You keep twisting my words so it can fit your own understanding. I have said my piece, you keep misinterpreting it, and I can't help you with that.

I advice you to lean back and reflect. That's it for now.

My mistake was to indulge myself a conversation with you that is long overdue. 

I have presented my case clearly with added inquires to support it.
I have countered replies and sentences that seemed reasonable.

I am not exaggerating though. You keep adding layers over layers until things aren't clear anymore.

I have no bias whether there is parachute or not.
I am not stubborn, we see things differently.

Also, lag is a common problems for all gamers alike. Competitive or not, you don't seem me complaining about it.