Clanners - Messed up....

[zippeurfou]

To be honest, I totally agree with you Komo. Being the top 1 clan here CF should have more balls and risk some points, but they look just like the selfish giant. IMO it's not a fair way to reach po's, just having a seat, playing the games that they need against TdC and done we're in po once again.
That's why I don't like the current system, it benefits the laziest players and other situations. I'd rather see noobashing, I wonder what's better the illness or the medicine.
I'm pretty sure if CF plays a bit more with clans like TaG, DoH or CKC they wouldn't reach PO's that easy

You're speaking as if it's easy to beat us but from what I see you lost more point than won against us in the last season. Dudes you just gotta admit CF is a strong clan and if TdC was noob bashing as you suggest lalo, we wouldn't be in po .
Komo is right about something, they often beat us, we even make fun about it (see some of tdc/cf topics ).I might be wrong but I don't think that's just because of win they play us.

[DarkOne]

what is ELO ? xD

Élő Árpád was a mathematician who developed a ranking system based on statistics to determine strength at chess The idea is still used in chess federations now, though the exact calculations are now different than wat Élő had in mind.
TUS is also using a derivative of Élő's system for ratings.

On another note: if you have problems with a certain clan's behaviour, how about talking to them rather than a hanging in the public square?
I thought this thread was about the way playoff participants were determined. If you have some suggestions that take away problems in the current system without creating new ones, I think that would be welcome indeed.

[avirex]

zipp, komo never said tdc was easy, and komo never said if ckc beats tdc more, or tdc beats ckc more... he said CF beats tdc more (u dont seem to disagree)  so why are u twisting around what he said??

its the truth, CF sits back picks and chooses who they play, and even sez to us "if u stopped playing when u were at ur peak, u would be in playoffs".. thats pretty lame lol...

CKC for the most part plays against any, and everyone... seemed like we had a great season, played our ass's off.. and yet still dont make it to the playoffs, thats pretty frustrating.. i wish there was a better way to do the league... but maybe there is'nt...    so what does everyone suggest? ckc should only play clans we trust in beating? and when we reach a high rating level, we should stop playing alltogether, to clench a spot in the playoffs? is that the best we can come up with? :|


and lets just note: i dont think komo made this thread as a big complaint, its more of a discussion.. because allthough alot of you dont want to admit it... somthing needs to be done... i have heard countless people complaining how much the system sux... why no1 stepping up now and saying it? lol.. the system does suck... needs a change

[darKz]

Let CF (because I seem to be a clan rather than an individual ) rephrase then:

If the season ended when you guys were at your peak, you would've made playoffs easily. But as it is, you lost too many points near the end of season, which means you sucked and it's your own fault, period.

Edit: I already posted a thread about how useless "seasonal" playoffs qualification is here. Yes the system is f@#!ed up and it needs to be changed.

[Chicken23]

saying the system sucks tho comes back to the same debate we had about single leagues. Darkone and MI have asked for suggestions on how to improve the system. Not just repeating critizism.

When there was a debate of single league and players being caught in the area of not enough overall but too much overall to acheive good seasonal points you can see that is what happened to CKC. We had a great season but we still did not qualifly. To address that we could suggest top 3 overall and 1st from seasonal to make the playoffs but i think 2 and 2 is fair. (although it sucks when a new clan is made of good players and get an easy pass to playoffs.. look at ck with dibz n shaggy. Now ck is dead and they still have unfinished playoffs)

We fell short at the end of our season. If we were as consistent as the rest of it we would of made the playoffs. But yea... we weren't lame and stopping once we had reached 2200 seasonal.. Plus none of us would of played any clanners for two weeks and how fun would that have been?
We had a winning percentage much higher than ps and tdc. Prehaps a suggestion could be to increase the winning percentage for playoff qualification? Or once again the activity and game limit? You should of seen CF when the limit was 30 and would qualify for playoffs with minimum requires and stole bor's spot.

I think it was a one off season. If we have a season as good as last and gain 900 points that will put us in the top 2 for overall hopefully. It will be harder to gain those points because of our strong overall rank but also the other clans on tus are developing and we still can gain good points off cfc, tag, bor, ps. DoH and CF give us the best points and we play doh often.

CF has a different attitude to clanning than the majority. They take a professional and very competitive approach. We can't knock them for doing that, they'll play the way they want to play. They play to the system and do pick and choose when to clan and when they are at their strongest. If you look at their past seasons you'll see that only a few of them i think they have played more than a handfull of games more than the mininum requirements for playoffs. They are all active on wormnet but they are not like us. They don't want to play clanners all the time. On worms playing clanners is the only fun i get so i choose to do that and never play 1on1's, warmers, funners of single games. Well not often anyway. The majority of my time spent on worms is in 2vs2 clan games and i love it. I wouldnt change that for the world.

Atleast avi we can enjoy yourselfs more by clanning with whoever we want and whenever we want. And still be a stable and strong clan in the league. We take the best of both ethics. For example; TdC's fun and mix it with the competitiveness of CF and thats what ive tried to do as a leader for many years. A fun competitive clan.
Tdc deserve their playoff spot. They haven't had many great seasons, no offensive, me and crazy would talk alot about tdc and its members and always knew you guys were able to produce the results you did this month. Look at their members list, some amazing players are in tdc.. HHC, fada, crazy all have outstanding reputations in certain schemes. Ive even been lucky enough to have been in the same clan as them many years ago. Then agenua and rash, theredi, ninjacamel and amokz been on good form. I wish them good luck for the playoffs.

As members of CKC we should now focus on our game and improve our overall rank, enjoy clanning, play as many clanners as we want and have fun while trying our best. Thats whats important, to have fun, try hard and its been working for us sofar. Look at our profile. Its not like we haven't made the playoffs before!! The past two seasons we've come short. This one was very close but we can use that to spur as on in season 14!

Over and out.

[Random00]

lol.. the system does suck... needs a change

I heard a lot of people saying something similar to this, but noone gives a suggestion that can really be better.
Imo CKC just didnt reach the Playoffs because you were just the 3rd best overall clan and its quite hard to reach top2 seasonal if you had a decent overall rating before the season started.
That was basically one of the reasons why daina failed to reach the single POs as well. There are just seasons where you're stuck between seasonal and overall, but if you're good enough you'll just reach the overall qualification this season and you wont hate the system anymore, cause it isnt as bad as it seems for sooooooooo many of you.

edit: very nice post, chicken.

[Chicken23]

lol.. the system does suck... needs a change

I heard a lot of people saying something similar to this, but noone gives a suggestion that can really be better.
Imo CKC just didnt reach the Playoffs because you were just the 3rd best overall clan and its quite hard to reach top2 seasonal if you had a decent overall rating before the season started.
That was basically one of the reasons why daina failed to reach the single POs as well. There are just seasons where you're stuck between seasonal and overall, but if you're good enough you'll just reach the overall qualification this season and you wont hate the system anymore, cause it isnt as bad as it seems for sooooooooo many of you.

agreed.

[darKz]

Imo CKC just didnt reach the Playoffs because you were just the 3rd best overall clan and its quite hard to reach top2 seasonal if you had a decent overall rating before the season started.

Yes, and that's exactly why it's unfair for players/clans to qualify for playoffs with seasonal rankings, as mentioned many times before.

[ShyGuy]

Not sure if this would apply here, but I thought of something a long time ago but was never put into practice. 
Right now, you could win a game and gain 40 points and your opponent loses 40 points...
My idea was to have it so you could win a game and gain 40 points and your opponent loses 20 points... exactly half of whatever you gain...
This does a few things...
1. It could raise activity.  I know for CKC, when chicken is on, he likes to have a 3rd clan member on because he can't rr very well... well with this system, you wouldn't lose as much points for a rr.  You would lose half of what the other clan gained.  So perhaps people would be willing to clan more knowing they won't lose a barrel full of points because the two members online can't cover a certain scheme.
2. I think it shows a true reflection of the clans abilities.  You could have really strong ropers playing in the clan and get a good roper rating, but sometimes you have a true defaulter on that can't rope well. Well, losing that roper with that nice big rating wouldn't put such a large hole into the rating after all. In other words, you don't get terribly punished for losing schemes your clan would normally win.
3. It helps with the higher ranked clans.  Right now, if a high ranked clan did 1-1, usually it would be a loss for them. For example, right now, if higher ranked clan A wins 25 points the first game, and loses 50 points the second game, they are down 25 points even though they made it even.  The system I proposed would mean clan A would have broke even at gaining 0 and losing 0.  Of course, the numbers won't be so exact all the time, but that is just an example.  When you do 1-1 in a clanner, it seems logical that you would end up at around the same rating you started as, give or take a few points... with the system now, it is a bit more punishing for higher ranked clans.
4. It doesn't create such a huge gap between clans.  I know in CKC's case, we tried to make a run for the playoffs the last day.. we went 5-1, but the one loss came from the clan who we were trying to knock out of the playoffs... we lost 59 points that game, they gained 59 points, and right there they bolstered their lead by 118 points just for winning one game... that pretty much ended any hopes of making the playoffs. The system I proposed would have only given them a 88.5 point gain for one game... at least it turns into something less devastating for 1 simple loss.  Basically, I guess this system would reduce blowout leads in the standings.

Of course with this system comes a lot of points generated from nothing, but idk what to tell you about that.  It could determine better candidates for the playoffs, or it could not... you never know without testing.  that's all I've got to input... peace yall................................  LOST IS THE BEST SHOW EVER!

[DarkOne]

It's an interesting idea, but you completely ignore the fact that if an average clan beats an elite clan, then that average clan has achieved something better than could be expected based on rating. On the other hand, the elite clan achieved something sub-par based on rating.
That means the average clan should get something out of it while the elite clan should lose points (rating is supposed to show how strong you are, it's not used for ego trips). This is in direct contradiction with point 2.

As for activity: yes, it would raise activity. But would you really want activity to be the only reason people qualify? Didn't there used to be questions about people getting into playoffs with only 55% wins?

Point 3: Do they really need help? Aren't they on top enough already? (see first paragraph)

Point 4: basically, what you're asking is a lower maximum points lost/won for each game here. This also will not change the situation: If you can win 40 points for each game, then 118 points is not an easy difference to overcome. If you reduce this to 20 points for each game, then the difference would automatically become 59 points (half of it).
But you'll still need to win the same amount of games to overcome this smaller difference.

Again: interesting idea, but I don't think it'll fix the problems and possibly creates a new one (activity becomes more important than skill).

[darKz]

Not sure if this would apply here, but I thought of something a long time ago but was never put into practice. 
Right now, you could win a game and gain 40 points and your opponent loses 40 points...
My idea was to have it so you could win a game and gain 40 points and your opponent loses 20 points... exactly half of whatever you gain...

Take a look at the first 2 TUS seasons' games played. We had exactly this before and it awarded way too many points for activity.

[ShyGuy]

Alright cool though at least i sparked some sort of discussion. yeah. YEAH!!! LOST!!

[DarkOne]

Alright cool though at least i sparked some sort of discussion.

And this is commendable Keep the ideas coming!

[TheKomodo]

I honestly think the best thing to do is Chicken's idea, which is what I have implemented in a2b already.

Raise the game limit for Clan playoffs, I think 100 games would be fair, At least 8-12 clans are active enough to achieve this.

And, or put in a win ratio % for Playoffs, I think 60% would be easily achievable for clans who actually deserve playoffs, and by this I mean, You should be able to play 100 games, and have over 60% ratio to be considered good enough for playoffs.

bOr, TdC, cfc and six only fell short of 60% by 0-6% which isn't too much to be honest, thats like about 5-15 games depending on how many they played.

I think with Game limits and win ratio's, is only way of deciding in a fair and competitive manner, who deserves the spots.

[DarkOne]

This doesn't take into account which clans you're playing against.
Certainly, if you win 55% against CKC, CF and DoH, that should be considered a better result than winning 65% against che, LoS and WM, even though the former wouldn't qualify for playoffs, while the latter would