Forums
May 02, 2024, 02:07 PM

Author Topic: Team17 has announced Worms WMD  (Read 64235 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline skunk3

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #255 on: May 29, 2016, 05:46 PM »
There's nothing wrong with the physics of the newer games. What is wrong with the newer games, PRIMARILY, is:

this is the problem with current society. Someone can see himself involved with an activity for almost 20 years but lack of self awareness unable him to make proper judgement.

It's as if people don't even grasp why the schemes we play, Elite, Bng, Roping, Rope racing and a long etcetera only have depth and a learning curve because the physics are complex and most importantly, coherent and predictable providing valid understanding.

This 'problem' that you speak of doesn't exist aside from in your own head. There is nothing wrong with the physics of the new games. Game mechanics, on the other hand, leave quite a bit to be desired. I am not sure if you are conflating these two terms or not. For example, I hate the roping and jumping in Reloaded, but that has nothing to do with the PHYSICS of the game. That's an issue of gameplay mechanics.

I completely understand why people play W:A, and certain schemes in particular. I've been a Worms addict since W2 after all. However, you make it sound as though that the newer games are effectively worthless as competitive titles. In that you are absolutely incorrect. Once again, there is nothing wrong with the physics models in the newer games. Shots aren't "unpredictable." It's just that you might not have enough experience with those games to understand the physics, the gameplay mechanics, etc. I've logged about 400 hours on Worms Reloaded for Steam, and maybe 200 for the PS3 version. I have about 240 hours and 100 hours in for the Steam versions of Revolution and Clan Wars, respectively. My timer for the PS4 version of Clan Wars (Battlegrounds) doesn't even work anymore because I played it so much. I'd estimate a good 700-800 hours, easily. In other words, I have more than enough experience with all of the games to flat-out refute any claim you would make regarding the non-viability of the newer titles as real, competitive Worms games. Basically, all you're doing is stomping your foot and saying "But they're not W:A!!!1"

Yeah, W:A is the best in terms of gameplay mechanics (and my favorite game of all time), but let's face it... it is pretty dated graphically, and it has an inferior physics engine than that of the 2.5D games. The fact that you don't "understand" the new games and the way they work isn't a fault with the games... the fault lies with you. You haven't put in the time and effort to understand those games in the way that you understand W:A...

*mic drop*

Offline sock

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #256 on: May 29, 2016, 06:35 PM »
Ohhh skunk3, niceee  8)

Offline darKz

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #257 on: May 29, 2016, 06:53 PM »
Spoiler! View

There's nothing wrong with the physics of the newer games. What is wrong with the newer games, PRIMARILY, is:

this is the problem with current society. Someone can see himself involved with an activity for almost 20 years but lack of self awareness unable him to make proper judgement.

It's as if people don't even grasp why the schemes we play, Elite, Bng, Roping, Rope racing and a long etcetera only have depth and a learning curve because the physics are complex and most importantly, coherent and predictable providing valid understanding.

This 'problem' that you speak of doesn't exist aside from in your own head. There is nothing wrong with the physics of the new games.
You know what, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
If I toss a grenade I wanna be able to predict where it goes after the first bounce. I can do that in W:A.
If I toss a grenade in a newer worms title it either goes wherever the f@#! it wants or it sticks to the floor like it's made of glue.
Worms can't slide in newer titles either, there's schemes in W:A which highly rely on rope knocking (hell, ghost knocking is all about rope knocks), they all couldn't exist in any other worms game.
And what do you even mean by "superior" physics? They may be more realistic in some way, but this is a f@#!ing 2d turn based strategy game made of bazooka shooting worms. It doesn't need realistic physics. But if people want to play it competitively it definitely does need predictable physics.
Ropes are a whole different story though and I'm glad we all seem to agree there.
I imagine you're having trouble understanding what makes this game unique for the competitive community because you haven't been playing this game competitively (I think I remember you saying that yourself, sorry if I'm mistaken).

Bonus showerthought:
Spoiler! View
I'd really like to see what happens if an actual T17 developer took a few weeks off work and got into competitive W:A. Because I don't think the people currently working there know what the f@#! we're all talking about.
I remember knowing who it was but dont remember exactly what I knew
~ Dubc 2010

Offline skunk3

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #258 on: May 29, 2016, 07:21 PM »
Spoiler! View

There's nothing wrong with the physics of the newer games. What is wrong with the newer games, PRIMARILY, is:

this is the problem with current society. Someone can see himself involved with an activity for almost 20 years but lack of self awareness unable him to make proper judgement.

It's as if people don't even grasp why the schemes we play, Elite, Bng, Roping, Rope racing and a long etcetera only have depth and a learning curve because the physics are complex and most importantly, coherent and predictable providing valid understanding.

This 'problem' that you speak of doesn't exist aside from in your own head. There is nothing wrong with the physics of the new games.
You know what, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
If I toss a grenade I wanna be able to predict where it goes after the first bounce. I can do that in W:A.
If I toss a grenade in a newer worms title it either goes wherever the f@#! it wants or it sticks to the floor like it's made of glue.
Worms can't slide in newer titles either, there's schemes in W:A which highly rely on rope knocking (hell, ghost knocking is all about rope knocks), they all couldn't exist in any other worms game.
And what do you even mean by "superior" physics? They may be more realistic in some way, but this is a f@#!ing 2d turn based strategy game made of bazooka shooting worms. It doesn't need realistic physics. But if people want to play it competitively it definitely does need predictable physics.
Ropes are a whole different story though and I'm glad we all seem to agree there.
I imagine you're having trouble understanding what makes this game unique for the competitive community because you haven't been playing this game competitively (I think I remember you saying that yourself, sorry if I'm mistaken).

Bonus showerthought:
Spoiler! View
I'd really like to see what happens if an actual T17 developer took a few weeks off work and got into competitive W:A. Because I don't think the people currently working there know what the f@#! we're all talking about.


Your lack of ability to predict what is going to happen with a nade in one of the newer titles is based on your lack of experience with the game, nothing more. Nades don't bounce / roll randomly. It might appear that way if you don't know the game very well, but trust me when I say that isn't the case.

Yes, I know that rope knocking is basically impossible to do in the 2.5D games, and exceedingly difficult in Reloaded...

By "superior" I meant "more realistic." I do agree that more realistic does not necessarily mean BETTER. I've said this before in the Steam forums regarding the newer games. I like all of the games by their own merits. A reason why some W:A players hate the newer games is because the physics are different. Not better or worse, but different. In Clan Wars (for example), some things just aren't possible that are possible in W:A. Nade throws are a perfect example. In W:A, a skilled player can throw a perfect nade that bounces several times before landing exactly where they want it. In Clan Wars, you can still be accurate as hell, but the difference is that the way the nades bounce and roll is far more realistic... velocity and angle determine far more factors than in W:A. If your nade hits a piece of terrain at a certain angle at a certain speed, it can either drop down, bounce to the side, bounce up and oscillate in the air, etc.

Imagine kicking a soccer ball into a sloped surface... depending on the speed, velocity, and angle of impact, the way the shot will bounce and/or roll is going to be very different. To put it another way, making precise nade shots in Clan Wars requires more thought and skill because it employs a more sophisticated physics engine.

I have no problem understanding what makes this game unique for the competitive community. I've played it since day one and I've played loads of competitive matches before. (clanners and solo) All I'm saying is that it is not as though the other Worms games aren't viable options for deeply competitive, skillful, and strategic gameplay.   

I too would also love to see a Team17 dev actually play W:A and get to know it intimately, so they know exactly why and how it is superior (on the whole) to their more recent efforts.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 07:26 PM by skunk3 »

Offline skunk3

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #259 on: May 29, 2016, 07:30 PM »
Also, FWIW, I play competitively all of the time. I just don't do it for some silly TUS rank. It's not like people play with their toes in funners.

Online Triad

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #260 on: May 30, 2016, 03:35 AM »
It's not like people play with their toes in funners.
I once roped with my feet. One of my friend had one of those sim racing pedals:

Set 3 pedals as Space, Enter and Backspace. Tried roping without my right hand. Used WASD. It worked really good for Big RR 40 sec no banana. So if you lose one of your hand one day there's still hope for you to play WA. :D



Offline Aerox

  • ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
  • Hero Member
  • *****

  • Spain Spain
  • KH KH clan

  • Posts: 2,133
  • :::::::::::::::::::::
    • View Profile
Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #261 on: May 30, 2016, 07:11 AM »
Quote from: skunk3
Yeah, W:A (...) is pretty dated graphically, and it has an inferior physics engine than that of the 2.5D games

Lmao, how this guy survives a whole day is beyond me.

how can you be so deluded when you're so terrible at the game and ugly in real life?

Quote from: darkZ
I imagine you're having trouble understanding what makes this game unique for the competitive community because you haven't been playing this game competitively (I think I remember you saying that yourself, sorry if I'm mistaken).

Yes. But because he's now posing as an elitist old schooler (who competed in the funner scene because leagues are for wussies) so he has brought new material to the discourse. Sadly, it makes no f@#!ing sense. I don't think he even understands what physics mean in this context.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 07:14 AM by Aerox »
MonkeyIsland, my friend, I know your english is terrible and your understanding of society limited. However, in real life, people attack and humiliate others without the use of a single bad word. They even go to war with lengthy politeness. You can't base the whole moderation philosophy of a community based on the use of bad words and your struggle with sarcasm and irony. My attack to Jonno was fully justified and of proper good taste.
Eat a bag full of dicks.

Offline skunk3

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #262 on: May 30, 2016, 04:26 PM »
Quote from: skunk3
Yeah, W:A (...) is pretty dated graphically, and it has an inferior physics engine than that of the 2.5D games

Lmao, how this guy survives a whole day is beyond me.

how can you be so deluded when you're so terrible at the game and ugly in real life?

Quote from: darkZ
I imagine you're having trouble understanding what makes this game unique for the competitive community because you haven't been playing this game competitively (I think I remember you saying that yourself, sorry if I'm mistaken).

Yes. But because he's now posing as an elitist old schooler (who competed in the funner scene because leagues are for wussies) so he has brought new material to the discourse. Sadly, it makes no f@#!ing sense. I don't think he even understands what physics mean in this context.

How are you not banned? You got banned for aliasing to get around another mute/ban, and now you're doing the exact same shit, and throwing around insults as well? f@#! you. You act like a petulant child constantly, argue with everyone about EVERYTHING, and now you're insulting me for no reason other than that you disagree with me. This is hilarious and sad at the same time. What is actually wrong with you? What issues do you face in your life that make you such a bitter, rotten, asshole?

Also, what do you mean 'posing?' I've been playing W:A since day one, and played W2 briefly before that. It doesn't really get much more old school than that. I've already explained that I don't play ranked games primarily because it takes the fun out of playing. I'm not scared to play vs. anyone. I went 1-2 in roper vs. Senator the other day while drunk as hell, lol. Who cares? Ya'll act like the only people who play Worms who have skills are the small handful of people who play TUS constantly, and that's just flat-out wrong. 

@MonkeyIsland - will you just ban this jerk already and make all of our lives better? Ropa is a toxic, noxious presence. 
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 04:31 PM by skunk3 »

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #263 on: May 30, 2016, 11:43 PM »
There is nothing wrong with the physics of newer Worms games, skunk3 is right, it's a game, how can they be wrong, are they breaking any laws? No, so shut the f**k up and stop saying they are wrong.

Use the proper term "I don't like it" not "It is wrong because I don't like it".

Offline Kradie

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #264 on: May 31, 2016, 02:10 AM »
Each Worms entry are unique in their own way.
Global Wormin' - A Friendly Discord Worms Server
https://discord.gg/zvFwZuAKQB

Offline AduN

  • Sr. Member
  • ****

  • Chile Chile
  • Posts: 263
  • hai2u!!1!:)
    • View Profile
    • my page
Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #265 on: May 31, 2016, 03:23 AM »
I don't like it

Offline Aerox

  • ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
  • Hero Member
  • *****

  • Spain Spain
  • KH KH clan

  • Posts: 2,133
  • :::::::::::::::::::::
    • View Profile
Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #266 on: May 31, 2016, 06:57 AM »
There is nothing wrong with the physics of newer Worms games, skunk3 is right, it's a game, how can they be wrong, are they breaking any laws? No, so shut the f**k up and stop saying they are wrong.

Use the proper term "I don't like it" not "It is wrong because I don't like it".

I never once used the word "wrong". You're just facerolling your head against the keyboard praying something resembling a post comes up just so you can fatten the topic with noise.

I called WA physics superior because they have more depth, simple as. It has different levels of friction, acceleration, force and an incredible amount of different outcomes for any given shot. Worm games after WWP don't have any of that, worms will stick to the ground regardless of angle, power, or friction, likewise weapons.

We can agree to disagree, I'm definetely not going to waste any more efforts trying to convince the two naivest people in the whole forum about something that everyone with half a brain cell and game time already knows.
MonkeyIsland, my friend, I know your english is terrible and your understanding of society limited. However, in real life, people attack and humiliate others without the use of a single bad word. They even go to war with lengthy politeness. You can't base the whole moderation philosophy of a community based on the use of bad words and your struggle with sarcasm and irony. My attack to Jonno was fully justified and of proper good taste.
Eat a bag full of dicks.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #267 on: May 31, 2016, 07:21 AM »
Did I mention someones name specifically? Did I directly call anyone out?

No, so stfu.

Offline Aerox

  • ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
  • Hero Member
  • *****

  • Spain Spain
  • KH KH clan

  • Posts: 2,133
  • :::::::::::::::::::::
    • View Profile
Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #268 on: May 31, 2016, 07:22 AM »
Quote from: Komito
No, so shut the f**k up and stop saying they are wrong.

So who you talking to? Leprechauns?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 07:25 AM by Aerox »
MonkeyIsland, my friend, I know your english is terrible and your understanding of society limited. However, in real life, people attack and humiliate others without the use of a single bad word. They even go to war with lengthy politeness. You can't base the whole moderation philosophy of a community based on the use of bad words and your struggle with sarcasm and irony. My attack to Jonno was fully justified and of proper good taste.
Eat a bag full of dicks.

Offline skunk3

Re: Team17 has announced Worms WMD
« Reply #269 on: May 31, 2016, 03:11 PM »
There is nothing wrong with the physics of newer Worms games, skunk3 is right, it's a game, how can they be wrong, are they breaking any laws? No, so shut the f**k up and stop saying they are wrong.

Use the proper term "I don't like it" not "It is wrong because I don't like it".

I never once used the word "wrong". You're just facerolling your head against the keyboard praying something resembling a post comes up just so you can fatten the topic with noise.

I called WA physics superior because they have more depth, simple as. It has different levels of friction, acceleration, force and an incredible amount of different outcomes for any given shot. Worm games after WWP don't have any of that, worms will stick to the ground regardless of angle, power, or friction, likewise weapons.

We can agree to disagree, I'm definetely not going to waste any more efforts trying to convince the two naivest people in the whole forum about something that everyone with half a brain cell and game time already knows.

Ropa's argument style:
1. backpedal
2. insult the other person
3. argue some more (usually just an opinion that he thinks is more correct than anyone else's)
4. more insults

You are simply wrong. W:A physics do not offer more 'depth.' Do you even play the other games? HAVE you played all of them, and if so, where's your Steam stats? How much time have you actually devoted to understanding the newer games?

Worms do not "stick to the ground." They might be stickier in *certain* situations in which they might slide more in W:A (and vice versa), but that's just the difference between the two games. As I said before, there's nothing wrong physics-wise with the newer games. I'm just going to assume that you don't have enough experience with them to understand the differences as compared to W:A. Everything that you said about W:A physics is present in the other games... just different.

Overall, I do prefer the physics model of W:A the most primarily because it is what I am most used to, but there's certain aspects of the physics in other games that I think are much more satisfying and well-made, like fire behavior (petrol bombs, flame thrower, etc), nade bounces/rolls, etc.