Which schemes requires most skills to handle?

[Aerox]

I know you haven't achieved such feats Komo, and that most likely you or no one will ever will.
But still, I feel the skill is closer because it's inside the realm of possibility that one person could achieve something close to a perfect bng game whilst in RR it's virtually impossible because I don't think we have that kind of reflexes in current human beings.

[Anubis]

If our brain was connected into the motion, and you would not need to press anything I think we could get a lot closer, but Worms is a physical game, in our thoughts we all can do those things and I am sure some would be able to practice the perfect timing where taps are not limited to the body reflexes. Isn't it still true that there is no chess AI out performing the best human players?

There is a reason why we often blame the kb / fingers for our failure. It's because we are body and hardware limited. I often imagined the craziest things in warmer but they were simply not possible because my body wouldn't perform that action fast enough.

Oh and btw, DC tool is a time-reverting Tool. If it worked realtime it would fail a lot more if the map is scanned real time (not like before the turn starts the CPU needs to scan the map) everything in real time I think we could outperform.

[DarkOne]

Isn't it still true that there is no chess AI out performing the best human players?

Nope. Humans are getting trounced nowadays.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2476
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2758
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3524

Especially the first one is painful.

Hell, they allowed a chess program that's run on a mobile phone play in a grandmaster tournament and it won by a huge margin: http://www.chess.co.uk/twic/twic771.html#13

[philie]

If our brain was connected into the motion, and you would not need to press anything I think we could get a lot closer, but Worms is a physical game, in our thoughts we all can do those things and I am sure some would be able to practice the perfect timing where taps are not limited to the body reflexes. Isn't it still true that there is no chess AI out performing the best human players?

There is a reason why we often blame the kb / fingers for our failure. It's because we are body and hardware limited. I often imagined the craziest things in warmer but they were simply not possible because my body wouldn't perform that action fast enough.

oO

+1.000

[skunk3]

TTRR definitely takes the most skill. (Although map familiarity has can make a huge difference between similarly-skilled players.) You either win or you lose, and one second can make all the difference. BNG does take skill, but even a relative newbie can still drop their opponent's HP bar quite a bit before the match is over. The terrain and placement are also never identical in BNG games, easily giving one person a decided advantage if they manage to get first dibs on placement. All schemes require some degree of skill; however, when you compare the learning curves of proficient roping and proficient shot-making, it's really a no-brainer. TTRR is definitely more difficult.

[TheKomodo]

You are kinda missing my point avirex, we are talking about skill, not winning here, if the topic was "whats the easiest way to win" I think BnG would storm that vote with all my 1st turn plops i've done.

But it's not, so it isn't, it's about skill, and I think hitting 46dmg every single turn for eternity is just as skillful as roping as fast as possible in the way I have already explained, anyway, no one can BnG or TTRR as good as his program, bearing in mind, i've actually seen it and used it so I DO know what I am talking about, i've seen the stuff you can do in BnG and if a Human could do that, it's just as impressive as Roping, but this all comes down to peoples opinion on what looks good, where I am willing to accept it's both as skillful, other people prefer to choose there favourite scheme which looks cool.

In terms of "skill" it is literally 50/50 with TTRR/BnG, if you think about the reality and how impossible it is for a human to be as flawless as DC's program with both TTRR/BnGall other classic schemes have things like crates/mines/random placements so will never come close to TTRR/BnG imo.

If we were talking about winning, in BnG 1st turn will win if ploppable, TTRR it will be a draw always.

[avirex]

komo your missing the point...  no1 agrees with you about bng being 50/50 just give it up...

we know u love bng but come on...

and winning the game is the most important thing, no matter how you do it... if 1st shot sink is the game winner, then you had a perfect game...

and komo, your always trying crazy shots in bng and each one different... the computer bng thing just tosses 3 second nades.. shit, even i can hit those majority of the tiem.. so if u cant do it all the time you should remove those b2b tags right now.

ropa is saying bng is easier to come close to the computers skill level

and its near impossible for a ttrr to get anywhere near a computer skill level. and he is right.

[Anubis]

Team17 actually proves it, the inbuilt CPU can BnG "quite" good. But it can't rope.
I am also believing that TTRR requires a lot more skill in terms of perfection, for both AI and Player alike.

[TheKomodo]

komo your missing the point...  no1 agrees with you about bng being 50/50 just give it up...

we know u love bng but come on...

and winning the game is the most important thing, no matter how you do it... if 1st shot sink is the game winner, then you had a perfect game...

and komo, your always trying crazy shots in bng and each one different... the computer bng thing just tosses 3 second nades.. shit, even i can hit those majority of the tiem.. so if u cant do it all the time you should remove those b2b tags right now.

ropa is saying bng is easier to come close to the computers skill level

and its near impossible for a ttrr to get anywhere near a computer skill level. and he is right.

You really have NO f@#!ing clue what you are talking about. DC's BETA shows you the path of the grenade, and you can move it pixel by pixel, all angles, all pwoer, with and without LG, so you can do pretty much anything you want, you can aim a bounce like 10 times through 5 gaps and hit for 45/46hp, shut your f@#!ing mouth you idiot, dunno why I even waste my time with you.

[DarkOne]

You would've deleted that post if I had talked to you like that, Komo.

[TheKomodo]

You would've deleted that post if I had talked to you like that, Komo.

I don't f@#!ing care, delete it then.

[OrangE]

DON'T TOUCH MY TRALALABNG!

[chakkman]

Isn't it still true that there is no chess AI out performing the best human players?

Nope. Humans are getting trounced nowadays.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2476
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2758
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3524

Especially the first one is painful.

Hell, they allowed a chess program that's run on a mobile phone play in a grandmaster tournament and it won by a huge margin: http://www.chess.co.uk/twic/twic771.html#13

Chess is a machine mind skill game. They program the computers well because any possible turn/game turnout is already known and fed into those chess computers... any other discipline which requires creativity in thinking and can't be completely analysed and rebuilt perfectly using artifial intelligent will always see man be ahead of machine.

[avirex]

oh komo, are you still the same guy that sez he does not swear and insult? hahahah

sorry i did not know about deadcodes bng thing... but guess what? a player will still come closer the skill level of DC bng tool then one will ever compare to DC ttrr tool...

and no matter how much people try to tell you, you still think otherwise, because you have some strange love for bng... 

i think komo should be muted, or atleast moderated for this.. im offended deeply.. peja was moderated for less... thank you.

[Hurenmeister]

elite way to play have changed dratically since edited maps were introduted too. imo these full of hides maps gave some advantage for those players who dunno what to do in the game and just hide, keep nading and zooking and w8 till SD to see what happens, of course skilled players go more sucess doesnot matter the maps, but times ago you could win an elite vs a non-skilled player without w8 for sd lol

some wise words, i thought/think the same