Quote from: Sensei on April 27, 2024, 07:35 PM
If writing an opinion on a public forum is seen as 'moaning' (as you politely described), that's also okay.

Actually, yes, writing an opinion that is negative showing you don't like something is actually a definition of moaning. When you make a sort of subtle complaint about something you're not a fan of.

For those who may be interested, moaning is also a sound people make and it can be either a good moan, a bad moan, a lazy moan, etc...

If I were to guess, the reason why we call making negative opinions moaning as well is because just like an actual moan, you're making an unpleasant sound to others with your voice.

We all do it from time to time lol.

Quote from: Sensei on April 27, 2024, 08:52 AM
Only issue here is that you took my comment personal..again.

Why do you think everybody takes it personally all the time lol? Any time ANY ONE questions you - IT'S PERSONAL! 

I saw you generally moaning about something as usual and was curious why, which is why I specifically said "I'm not sure what issue you have exactly". So if I am not even sure what your problem is, why would you think it's personal?

You did however answer the question thanks.

Quote from: Sensei on April 27, 2024, 08:52 AM
I just stated third league is a bit of an overkill in a system with 2 inactive leagues. Lowering threshold of win% to enter playoffs won't really make any of the league better or more competitive. It seems like a surrender in my eyes. Which is a pity. Idea seems okay, money involved is a good addition, although - players are either gone or not really see it as something groundbreaking enough to get online and compete.

For starters, there are 5 inactive Leagues on TUS, however the 2 "main leagues" are active, people are literally playing them...

TNL - HAL - Classic - TEL - TTL - These are currently inactive, the rest are all active.

Also, lowering the threshold DOES make the league better, at least in the subjective sense better because it achieves a goal better than not lowering the threshold.

The point is, we shouldn't be using win % as a restriction, but rather as a method of judgement.

So let's say 13 people play 30 games, the 8 who have the most points and best win % will make the PO.

It's actully fascinating you see it as "a surrender" when it's the complete opposite, this is HUGELY successful, it's not a failure in the slightest lol.

Quote from: Sensei on April 27, 2024, 08:52 AM
If current TRL league activity exceeded your expectations, I guess that's great. Won't comment it anymore.  Gl in future seasons.

Thanks!

Quote from: Sensei on April 26, 2024, 09:54 AM
Alround and Free aren't any better, but at least players have variety of schemes to choose from.

2nd glance at this though...

That's literally the MAIN reason why this 3 scheme TRL League is even happening right now. The "main"  leagues have too much variety, there are literally too many schemes for ANYONE to master:

Big Rope Race
TTRR
Tower Race
Shopper
WxW
Roper
Intermediate
Aerial
Elite
Hysteria
Team17
BnG

Sure, it's a competitive League, but it feels SUPER casual because of how people pick what they play, the same handful of players in the playoffs, and the same handful of players who usually win.

Anyway... That's 12 schemes... It takes years to be a top player at any individual scheme... The main league was made for players who have been playing for 10+ years, it's overwhelming to new players and casual players, even many serious players because they just don't have enough time to practise all of those schemes!

That's not competitive or fun at all for a lot of people... Beating people in schemes you are superior at when they have next to no experience, losing at schemes you don't even enjoy playing lol... How is that competitive or fun?

---

The whole point of TRL using 3 different types of schemes, is to give people a consistent and reliable competitive environment that they can focus on each season, and only have to practise 3 schemes per season just like the good old days!

Each season it's always 1 artillery scheme, 1 physical scheme and 1 strategic scheme, you only need to be great at 2 out of 3 of those to have a chance of winning playoffs.

Most people are good at or can at the very least enjoy playing 2 out of 3 types of schemes... As opposed to 12 schemes in allround, or 21 schemes in TFL, which is what most people actually consider to be genuine overkill being "too many schemes" lol.

I tried once, got lost immediately, gave up.

Was a fun 10 seconds though.

In all seriousness, this map is a true work of art! Top content as always from kirill!

Quote from: Triad on April 26, 2024, 08:03 PM
You get the picture. Like you said, using the points first is a better approach.

Maybe...

It really depends who played who... The reason why we have both points and win % is because they sort of go hand in hand to dictate who played better.

It's also different when comparing an individual scheme and multiple schemes.

You can have more points, with a lower win % because you played players you have or haven't beat at specific schemes...

Ideally, you would use both as a measurement to find out which player is more deserving, but to keep things simple, using points is better.

Quote from: Lupastic on April 26, 2024, 06:40 PM

Quote from: Korydex on April 26, 2024, 06:33 PM
I think there should be a rule if you play on custom terrain the map MUST be converted to png. Because if not people without the module can't watch the replay and the map isnt visible on game page!

https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-242004/msg296759/#msg296759

some players prefer em not to be converted cuz the "league rules" say so (mutual agreement inbetween players ??)

I have to clarify here, Lupastic isn't sharing the right information.

The league rules DO NOT say anything about custom terrains or custom terrains being converted. There is no rule that says anything about maps cannot be converted.

It's a personal preference for ME because maps converted to PNG look different to normal and I prefer normal, I don't like having to squint my eyes on PNG backgrounds when lining up BnG shots, that shit actually physically hurts when you do it long enough.

What I believe Lupastic is referring to is this general rule for players agreeing on maps:

Quote
Both players/clans need to agree on the map.

There is no rule or rules stating which maps are and aren't considered "valid" however there is a general rule that dictates you can refuse a map for any reason you want.

Quote from: Triad on April 26, 2024, 07:44 PM
I think you mean the most points, not the best winning percentage, because people can have more points than other people with a lower winning percentage. The best example I can think of is Piki, Husk and Jago in the overall Darts standings: https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/free-standings/Darts/?s=overall

Nah, I did mean highest win % however thinking about it yeah it's better to be using the points first, THEN win % to decide who makes the cut.

Though I don't know what the problem is with your example?

Quote
Piki - 257 played - 50.19% - 1,488

Husk - 86 played - 46.51% - 1,408

Jago - 76 played - 39.47% - 1,172

Piki has both more points and highest win %
Husk has 2nd most points and 2nd highest win %
Jago has 3rd most points and 3rd highest win %

What were you trying to prove there?

Ideally, having a win % wouldn't be such an issue...

Though, when you have a small handful of top players, and the rest are sort of average, this is what happens. If we had enough top players it would be fine everyone playing each other.

If we have no win % required, and that they only need to play the right amount of games, then all you do is if 13 people have more than 30 games played, the 8 with the best win % make the Playoffs, that seems fair!

Quote from: Sensei on April 26, 2024, 09:54 AM
This new league is a bit of an overkill atm. Even with win% removed, there's no 8 people that played 30+ games.

Alround and Free aren't any better, but at least players have variety of schemes to choose from.

If money didn't help, hardly anything will.

I'm not sure what issue you have exactly

For me personally TRL turned out even better than expected, and next Season is setup to be even better! All we needed was 4 players to reach playoffs, even by ONLY games played, and we smashed that, 4 legit players making the playoffs by both existing requirements, there will probably be 8 if we get rid of the win % requirement.

If more than 8 players make PO then it's the 8 with the highest win % - Simples!

---

ANNOUNCEMENT:

They've asked not to reveal their name but someone from WA got in contact, and is actually going to sponsor the TRL League stuff I'm doing via their business, so long as I run a couple adverts for their business during TRL streams, they are adding another £100 to the prize pool for the next season. (Might increase over time).

So next Season, Season 33, there will be a £200 prize pool split between the top 3 players.

I always said I'd never sellout for adverts, but I'm quite happy to do it when I am not receiving the profits and the profits go to the players and the community!

---

You know, it doesn't usually bring me any satisfaction when people say "You can't do that" or "It won't work" and then it does happen and/or it does work... But this time it genuinely feels satisfying because it's not for myself!

It's a great way to stick the middle finger up and yell "LOOK HOW MUCH FUN WE'RE HAVING BWAHAHAHAHA!".

I agree, walrus for president!

With 4 days remaining the first season of Multi-TRL, 4 players have successfully met the requirements to play in the Playoffs:



It would be nice to have 8 players.

What is your general opinion if 4 others reach the games played requirement of 30, even with a lower win % we could let them into Playoffs as well?

---

Also, nice announcement for the next Season of TRL during the podcast this Sunday! Stay tuned!

Quote from: Masta on April 25, 2024, 05:22 PM
As long as a for example a trick race challenge replay can't be voided because a mexican swoosh was performed by accident instead of a swoosh (unless it is clearly stated in the description of the challenge that a mexican swoosh doesn't count as swoosh) I don't have an issue. We seem to have a fundamental disagreement about the importance how rope tricks look to determine what that trick is and that's fine. If I was abrasive, difficult or a smart ass at points in the discussion I apologize.

Yeah, to be honest, it's pretty cool that we even have different ways of measuring these things. People have different ways of interpreting things, so the good thing is, you have a method you like, I have a method I like, we both together know and understand both methods and their differences so we can still agree on any particular event with absolute certainty and award judgement accordingly.

Sorry if I came across as a pain as well, but thanks for sticking in there and helping us out!

Quote from: Masta on April 25, 2024, 04:19 PM
I'm asking you to be on the latest version of the game, press Shift + 0 + 9 and take an extra 5-10 seconds to check rare edge cases. You are asking me to always be unsure if I actually did a trick and having to restart mid-game to check. You are asking a lot more of me than I am asking of you.

Wait what?

You're asking me to take an extra 5-10 seconds to check, but somehow I'm asking more of you? How is something that takes longer actually faster lol? You're the one asking ME to do more, something that takes longer, and isn't as common.

It takes longer than 5-10 seconds because... You do realize that in Darts you don't have a rope shooting either direction as a signal right? So if the rope looks like it's on the wrong side we have to check anyway, and we want to check using frame by frame, not super slow motion tweening method.

How long it takes aside, why would you be unsure if the method I use is simple to understand and clear/visible to see? I don't believe you are "unsure" as you understood perfectly enough how I measure it to debate about it and specifically explain the difference between the methods.

Your measurement method takes slightly longer and requires an extra step as opposed to skipping to the time and just skipping frame by frame.

Not to mention it's not how long it takes that's important it's what you actually see, and as I've said before, your method involves "tweening". What you are seeing is something that's been added to the game more recently, which is why the method I use is more traditional, historic and authentic.

---

On the bright side, this is something that you are only ever going to have to use on very few occasions, and on those occasions it's up to the moderators of the event to decide which way to use so they can do it however they like.

Triad and I have decided that for Darts Challenges and dS Stuff we're going to do it the way we've mentioned. Interestingly enough, the result is the same in the end than if we did it your way anyway since the frame you personally think of as a swoosh is something we allow now anyway.

When it comes to Darts at least, you would have to check either way since you don't have the rope shoot direction to even see if it was an arch or a mexi. It just makes more sense to me this way.

Quote from: Masta on April 25, 2024, 03:41 PM
In this case you can't see the grenade touching the wall. In your view does this mean the bounce doesn't count and that the red team didn't win the game? It looks like the grenade was repulsed by a magnetic force, perhaps you would like to say it was repulsed instead of bounced in this case? The replay is attached.

You can hear bounce off the wall and you can see that it changed direction.

Not sure what you are trying to achieve here other than trying to be a smartarse now?

We don't judge "tricks" with grenades or how they hit, we just use them to hit. It's not as relevant HOW they hit, unless you play BnG with rules like no sitters, but do you know what I mean?

Quote from: Masta on April 25, 2024, 03:41 PM
A scenario where two players are playing trick race:

Quote*Player 1 does a swoosh after 10 minutes of trying*
Player 2: That was kind of close to the edge, let's close the game and look at the replay frame by frame to make sure it wasn't a mexican swoosh.
*Turns out it was a mexican swoosh*
Player 2: You must try to do it again, you didn't do a swoosh. Now let's start the game, teleport back to our old positions and resume playing.

This is unreasonable and cumbersome to me. This scenario is one practical reason for why I'm arguing against the notion that how it looks is what counts. It's so this doesn't become the way we have to do things, as you say f that.

Do you think I have pity for 2 players who can't do a pretty easy enough move after 10 minutes of trying in a Trick Race lol? Sounds like they need to get better lol.

Try harder though Masta. It's not a good enough example to change my mind, the way I measure it is still more practical in my opinion.

If it's so bad, then just do what Triad and I did, allow mexican swooshes to count as swooshes. The way you do it is unreasonable and cumbersome to me, it literally takes longer to check it your way than my way. At least if you are watching in slow motion waiting to see the rope angle if you don't have access to TA.

Technically speaking we ARE actually using the information you reminded us of though, just in a different way from what you want, it was useful though, thanks!

---

If you ARE trying to convince me otherwise though, tackle it with this approach... Don't tell me what's more practical for YOU, think of something that would appeal to ME.

Right now, I see zero actual problems with doing it your way OR my way, they are both valid ways of measuring, it's just that the way I do it is more comfortable, feels more natural, it's faster to check for me personally etc. It also feels more traditional, historic and authentic to me.

The way you do it, you couldn't even check with the original game. So if you want to convince me you're going to have to think of something that appeals to me, not you since this is based on opinion.

---

Oh, one more thing!

Don't worry about it anyway, if you want to make a trick race and ALLOW it, then you are free to allow it in that Trick Race, you can say "This is what is considered a genune swoosh in this challenge" then define it any way you want.

*BUMP*

5 days left to vote!

*BUMP*

5 days left to vote!