hysteria in the classic league

[Rok]

I do have a problem with many Hysteria fans (like Almog) that doesn't post in such threads. Anti-Hysterians post and post and make it like the entire community dislikes Hysteria. Then when I do change it, the other side comes out whinning.

Many of those people would post something like "nah is gud" and then be gone again, anyway (Think about Phanton  )

[avirex]

Ill bet this schemes uber strategy has evolved by people making a joke of the scheme...

"o ill hide on the sides, and shoot zooks when i have wind! Anc skip my tur when i dont! Gahahaha what a silly game!"


"yah? Will check this out! Ill sink one of my worms... Yes at first glance it looks totally retarded, but i have a plan...*moments later* bahahaha now i can keep attacking you and flying to your last played worm bahaha you cant do shit son! What a silly scheme"

mm: "ehhh dude, this scheme sux, lets just force sd, and see what happens... Oooooooooo! Wtf we win? And again? And again? Bahahaha what a silly scheme"


And then each silly move was soon called a strategy a short time later

[twistah]

yeah, for some reason my big ass post didn't got posted..

summary of my post: shopper and hysteria must be removed from classic league. t17 isn't luck. i once lost 3 worms in first turn and won in the end with superiour tactics. i think was vs HHC  4-5 years ago. those that think rope is luck just got no idea bout skill. its all bouit the maps. i once made a map where you can get every crate + attack. just needs flawless roping my friends. but most play mablak maps with tons of hides and tight spots = luck. hide on top is gay. ask opponent how he is going to play and then just addapt to his style. i generally dont hide on top. and bng is gay if you understand how it works and makes it boring once you mastered it.. yeah

[pr]

hide on top is gay.
i generally dont hide on top.
and bng is gay

that's the point

[Aerox]

How many more negative opinions about Hysteria in TUS Classic by renowned players do you need to get it out of that league? I wonder.

a small group of people legitimated with a big name should rule over the majority of people? i thought we removed this form of leadership not that long ago for good reasons.

Good reasons? What good reasons? I guess the only good reasons are to get this league as popular as possible no matter at what expense.

If that is the real reasoning behind all these changes then please act with coherence and chance the name of the league from "classic league" to "popularity league" or "democracy league" or whatever, because you're not judging all around skill, you're just collecting schemes and adding them together hoping that said league gets as many games played as possible.

The reason leagues have been composed of certain schemes is not just because some people in power wanted it that way because they refused to change, I know you want to believe this because you love the idea of making something completely new and exciting in the name of democracy but that's not the way it is, it's simply not true. The core of schemes that make a good all arounder make sense from a purely gameplay point of view.

If you think adding hysteria just because it's popular at the expense of it being an awful league scheme you're just breaking the balance. You know what else breaks the balance? Allowing democracy in matters the majority of people are ignorants at.

edit:

You're being naive if you don't see the clear flaws with hysteria. In fact, if you want this league to have as many games played as possible you're still being naive, why not change the scheme to 1 worm each? You save time which can be invested in getting more games played. That's not the goal is it? It's to make as many people happy. We could have a poll to choose each season's winner for next season...

Staff of this league: you can apply reasoning to a scheme like hysteria, you can ignore the polls and what the masses say, and you can execute those changes to the scheme, and here comes the shocker, ready for it? People can actually approve those changes, realize the scheme is better that way and play it more often.
I know you haven't considered this modus operandi until now, but hey, maybe it's worth considering? Open your eyes for what is worth and not for what it's worth.

[KoreanRedDragon]

Hysteria surely requires some abilities, but the skill cap is rather low. There's simply not much you can do during a single second of turn time. Another thing is that hysteria is one of the schemes which don't really benefit a lot from being played competitively. I think it has always been meant to be played for fun. During funners, you can allow yourself to try all the crazy moves you would never attempt in a league game. But once again, such craziness doesn't prove efficient in serious games and it always ends up with both sides doing the same old plain boring moves in every game.

How many of you guys have actually tried doing the bold part in a serious Hysteria game with 8 worms a side?

<franz>Can we see some replays of it being attempted successfully and not giving the player an advantage?</franz>

On that note, why was it decided that 8 worms a side was too much for TUS Hysteria? It's not like it makes games last significantly longer, all it does is it gives the player performing better a higher chance of ensuring that he has more worms and better positions for the endgame (where currently, as you all say, things usually end in 1v1), or at the very least more time to get some of them into a superior position while his inferior opponent is still busy killing the rest via turn advantage.

Along with playing the scheme on nice complex (but not too darksidey) random maps, I feel the above would bring Hysteria's skill/luck factor at least very close to the rest of the current league schemes, if not on par with them.

By the way, I was actually first in line when trying to prevent people from starting to play Hysteria competitively. But what's done is done and as MI points out, it now is a league scheme. As with the other classic league schemes, drastic solutions to the problem (changing the basics of the scheme, replacing it with even less tried and tested schemes, taking it out of the league completely) should only be attempted after it has been conclusively proven that milder solutions, like what the rest of us propose, can't work.

[chakkman]

Justin  Bieber is by far the most viewed person on YouTube. You we're saying...?

People don't pick Bieber for gaining points tho. Seriously, that statistic doesn't really say much. Only someone who doesn't want to progress in the standings picks his favourite schemes.

[Aerox]

Justin  Bieber is by far the most viewed person on YouTube. You we're saying...?

People don't pick Bieber for gaining points tho. Seriously, that statistic doesn't really say much. Only someone who doesn't want to progress in the standings picks his favourite schemes.

It's funny you mention this.

If I were a player who didn't trust my chances against X player I'd pick hysteria, because the gamble is better than the loss. Do you really consider this to be something other than awful for a scheme? When Shopper was introduced as a competitive scheme by FB many noob clans picked it against the good players, try and take advantage of the bigger amount of games played in said scheme, it gives them the chance to compete. Same thing is happening with hysteria but to a much bigger extent. It's a gimmick scheme and as soon as everyone catches up to the gimmick of its tactics (if they haven't yet) then its clear competitive flaws will show.-

I know some of you are very good with it in leagues and you're enjoying that position, must be tough being told the scheme is not very competitive.

[chakkman]

If I were a player who didn't trust my chances against X player I'd pick hysteria, because the gamble is better than the loss.

True point, didn't think of that.

[Anubis]

Having to deal with hyst in league games doesn't really add to the motivation to ever come back playing competitive. Dumb down gameplay aside, it's very uninteresting to play in my opinion. I always liked Mole Shopper more than any other fun scheme. And yeah, I consider hyst and shopper both to be fun schemes, but not capable of high-end competition gameplay.

Komo mentioned that noone in Hysteria is dominating. Like for example people do/did in Elite or TTRR. That either means the scheme is very lucky, the skill-cap/tactics are extremely low so that a big majority can master them or the scheme mechanics don't allow high complexity.

Just my 2 Cents that are going to be ignored but at least I voiced my opinion.

[Gabriel]

I think hysteria IS a fun scheme when it's played on funners.
Lamentably with all these tactics and stuff, it became a really pathetic scheme.
First time i played hysteria for TUS i was impressed too about telecow, i have ever liked it, and wont ever like it. I would happy agree on a game without telecows, as we used to do with DJ-M4R10, but as seems there are players that based his skills on a stupid tactic (plopping his own worm, killing their own worms etc) well, I just started to do it too.
I know it can be way a bad reason... but its pathetic to lose 75 points with a noob.
I think Hysteria as TRL did a good job, since if you like hyst you play it and if you dont you just knock it off. But I think the popularity of hysteria cant atm make an hyst league. There is just a bunch of people that are interested in the scheme and theres a big part that simply hates it.
In Hysteria there's always a chance for everybody, thing that ever would happen in a ttrr, if you suck you can surrender at twenty lol.

As you see, Hysteria is the most played scheme in 3.5 years.

There's a big factor... I bet Phanton has played about 1/12 of those games xD

I personally got bored of hysteria in classic league. I think its a scheme that usually makes you feel frustrated when losing for laming. I think it should be replaced for a less luck scheme such as comet dodging.

[Peja]

Justin  Bieber is by far the most viewed person on YouTube. You we're saying...?

People don't pick Bieber for gaining points tho. Seriously, that statistic doesn't really say much. Only someone who doesn't want to progress in the standings picks his favourite schemes.

It's funny you mention this.

If I were a player who didn't trust my chances against X player I'd pick hysteria, because the gamble is better than the loss. Do you really consider this to be something other than awful for a scheme? When Shopper was introduced as a competitive scheme by FB many noob clans picked it against the good players, try and take advantage of the bigger amount of games played in said scheme, it gives them the chance to compete. Same thing is happening with hysteria but to a much bigger extent. It's a gimmick scheme and as soon as everyone catches up to the gimmick of its tactics (if they haven't yet) then its clear competitive flaws will show.-

I know some of you are very good with it in leagues and you're enjoying that position, must be tough being told the scheme is not very competitive.

explain me those f@#!ing high winning percentages then. if there is such less skill and crappy tactics needed why people still whining about luck/etc  instead of just rocking this scheme.cant be that hard to reach high ranks when its such easy to learn.   the fact less overall skilled players beating pros in hysteria just shows those pros havent adopted this scheme yet.

[Anubis]

Oh and, MI.

You posted that impressive statistic, but did you consider that a lot of games are played because the opponent picked it so the other doesn't have a chance to avoid playing Hyst. If you are forced to play Hyst and want to be fair, you will play it nonetheless

How about every player is allowed to "dislike" 1 scheme, that still leaves a lot of pickable schemes left in my opinion. The scheme that is disliked can't be picked by the opponent.

[Peja]

Oh and, MI.

You posted that impressive statistic, but did you consider that a lot of games are played because the opponent picked it so the other doesn't have a chance to avoid playing Hyst. If you are forced to play Hyst and want to be fair, you will play it nonetheless

How about every player is allowed to "dislike" 1 scheme, that still leaves a lot of pickable schemes left in my opinion. The scheme that is disliked can't be picked by the opponent.

you want a free ticket to avoid a scheme in an all round league? would kinda kill the concept of the league.

[Dub-c]

I like hysteria but don't think it or wxw should be in the classic league.