Quote from: HHC on April 27, 2018, 09:04 AM
Quote from: skunk3 on April 26, 2018, 10:24 PM
WMD is not a shitty game. It is just not as good as it COULD be. I do wish that some other company would copy the Worms formula and make a competitor that is superior, but I highly doubt that's gonna happen. One of the main problems with WMD as it is is the fact that it is available for many platforms, so the player base is highly divided. If all of the people who enjoy playing Worms were united under the same platform it would be much more popular.
What would a superior Worms game look like in your mind Skunk3?
When I think about that, all I can think of something like WA 4.0.. or a smoother looker new-gen game with useful servers 
But I wonder if something like that would still be a superhit like the old Worms was.
I mean, when you look at Worms 2, that was truly a game that used the max of that age's possibilities graphics- and performancewise. 3D back then was pure shite. But when you look at WA now, it is not a game anymore that blasts youngsters away, while the 2.5D 'improved' graphics look slightly shinier, but they are a bitch with regards to custom map editing.
Maybe T17 did better letting the old worms go, and build a new game from scratch. It seems that when you try to copy an existing game, the result is usually not so good, or just terrible :/
As limited as it was, maybe Worms Golf has been the best worms title of the last decade. Even though the levels looked similar to standard worms maps, the game seemed more 'finished', precisely because there was no need to copy every weapon, every mechanism, every set of rules..
I'm fairly sure they would've saved themselves a lot of frustration and misery if they had not insisted on putting in a rope in their worms games, because truly, it always turned out terrible
Good question! This is something that I have thought about a lot over the years and I have several excellent ideas.. at least *I* think they are excellent.
First of all, this new game would be 2D. The 2.5D crap is terrible for lots of reasons and pure 3D Worms games can be entertaining, but not nearly as good as 2D due to the gameplay being way easier in many respects.
What I say Team17 should do is incorporate what is great about past Worms titles and add more interesting ideas.
Let's start with Worms 2:
-lots of customization options, including the ability to edit weapon damage values
Worms: Armageddon
-including all of the updates, W:A has loads of awesome features that should be standard in any title moving forward (replay files, various settings like 150% speed mode, racing stuff, et al...)
-a simple and effective global chat lobby that shows the national flags next to play names, which I think is a great touch because it allows you to easily identify who you might be able to most easily communicate and possibly bond with
-a really decent map editor that allows you to generate permutations of various 'types' of maps, and the ability to use basic tools to draw on the map rather than HAVING to import custom maps
-lots of terrain themes included
-persistent fire (from petrol bombs anyway)
-control over SD water rise speed
We all know W:A very well so I'm not going to go into detail regarding every little thing. Suffice it to say, there's loads of stuff that hasn't made it to any of the subsequent Worms games.
WWP:
-added little details like team colors to mines, etc
-Wormpot, which was awesome
Worms Reloaded:
-added hats as a customization option
-added several new weapons and utilities that are quite nice, even if the overall gameplay engine or whatever sucks
-bright, colorful, 2D
-poison weapons were changed so that they couldn't go through terrain, which I think is a good change because it seems really dumb to me that poison clouds can magically pass through anything in W:A
Worms Revolution / Clan Wars:
-dynamic water! This is such an awesome addition to the Worms gameplay experience. Yeah, it isn't optimized very well and it kinda causes the game to lag sometimes when large amounts of water is shifting around and dripping everywhere, but it adds such a great dimenion to the game.
-physics objects / solid objects. Another great addition to the game. I loved how girders were actually solid objects instead of just another piece of terrain. Girders had a certain amount of HP and they would remain in one piece until they took too much damage. Also, with items such as the UFO and Telekinesis, you could move girders around, steal them from other people, etc. Definitely more strategic all around. There were also other objects embedded in the map that one could move around and use strategically, and they had various effects upon destruction. Some would release water, some would explode into fire, and other ones would simply just do a bunch of damage. In the single-player mode the physics objects were far more advanced, with little machines and pulleys and ropes and stuff. It's a real shame that these sorts of contraptions were not included in multiplayer because it would have been extremely fun.
-Worm classes. While they were pretty imbalanced in Revolution, they were a bit better in Clan Wars, although still not perfect. I think that Worm classes are a great OPTIONAL gameplay mechanic, although they definitely shouldn't how the game is played by default, although I suspect that many people will play like that online
-more interesting weapons and utilities
-built-in clanner mode
-coin crates, which let you buy items for set prices (much more sensible than the crafting system in WMD IMHO)
Worms WMD:
-very nice looking art, even if the terrain themes are quite limited
-brought back a max player limit of 6 with up to 8 worms per team apiece (first game since WWP to have this)
-smooth zooming in/out and scrolling
-simple to use text and voice chat
-ability to wear custom hats
-improved (yet still flawed) solo ranking system
-great sound design / atmosphere / effects
-weapon emplacements
-vehicles (not very well balanced but fine as an optional gameplay mechanic with some tweaks, but shouldn't be default)
-buildings that you can enter and enemies cannot see you unless they are also in the building
So with all of that said, what I envision is this - A Worms game with all of the best elements of the past games with no exceptions or cutting corners. I want to see it as 'sandbox' as possible with complete control over customization options. Timers (turn, retreat, mine, etc) editablel in 1 second increments. If I want to make a scheme with 9 second turns I should be able to. If I want SD water rise to happen at the rate of 2 pixels per turn, I should be able to set that. We should be able to make custom schemes with ANY starting inventory, as well as be able to set delay times, power for the weapons, % chance they will appear in crates, % chances of certain crate types dropping (including multiple crate drops per turn) Ideally, the game would either be released on one platform only OR be released with cross-play for all platforms AT LAUNCH, that way people don't get disappointed that not enough people are playing due to the player base being divided by so many platforms.
I want all of the items from the past games included EXCEPT for the Mischevious Drone and several of the truly OP craftable items from WMD. We can get rid of the redundancy though... there's no need for 3 different types of prod, or multiple types of baseball bats. Get rid of all the redundant crap but keep the original items because everything has a perfect situational use even if Team17 doesn't seem to think so. (They got rid of Dragon Ball in WMD, for example... and lots of other stuff.) Fire-based items should cause persistent fire, not just petrol bombs. In other words, napalm strikes should stay on fire for a set number of rounds, or until put out with water. Speaking of fire... I think that a new element of this new Worms game should be different surface types, rather than everything simply being 'terrain.' What I mean by this is that I'd like to see different materials with different properties and toughness. Wooden materials would ignite if fire touches them and eventually completely burn away, dropping embers as it goes up in flames. I'd also like to see icy surfaces that are slippery, sticky surfaces, metallic surfaces that conduct electricity-based attacks, stone, bouncy surfaces like rubber, etc. Poison should have an option to be stackable and we should also be able to edit how much HP poison damages per round. There should also be other status conditions, like bleeding, for example. (-1 hp per round until a health pack is grabbed?) I also would like to see the introduction of a new crate type - antidote. HP crates shouldn't cure poison, only antidote crates. A HP crate would give the worm more HP but not cure them.
The game should have a built-in ranking system for singles, duos, and clanners. The ranking system would need to be improved from what it is in WMD though to prevent those who grind the most from being on top even if their win rate isn't as good as others. Also, instead of one ranked scheme there should be ranked matches in a variety of schemes... the ranked schemes in Clan Wars and WMD both suck IMO, which is why I basically quit playing ranked once I got my unlocks in WMD. Speaking of unlocks, there definitely should be various types of unlocks... hats, HP bars, speech banks, idle animations, etc. These could be unlocked from various ranked modes, player milestones, completing single-player content, etc.
There was also a cool idea from a mobile Worms game (or maybe Facebook Worms?) that I think would be fun as an optional gameplay mechanic: cards. You start each match with a certain number of cards that are randomly drawn from a deck that you create. The cards only become active at the end of your turn, and these can include things such as minor bonuses to yourself with certain items on your next turn, or minor debuffs or rules changes for your opponent, such as "all weapons are affected by wind" for that turn. Of course if any card is in effect the person would be able to see that and react accordingly. You could play a card that gives you slightly boosted damage with 'gun-type' items on your next turn, or increased fire damage, larger explosions but no damage increase, etc.
As far as Worms classes go, I think that instead of having 'classes' per se we should have various attributes for our worms and a point buy system. Various attributes could be things like movement speed, jump power/height, knockback resistance, damage reduction, increased healing, poison/bleed resistance, damage dealt, etc. Obviously none of these should be OP but I think it'd be cool if we could customize each of our worms to have slightly different stats... so if you wanted one worm that was really quick and agile, you could do that... it would basically be the same as the class system in Clan Wars, only you'd get a little bit more control. Of course the various archetypes of the worms should have a look to them so other players could more or less know what to expect, or even simply being able to click on the worm to check out its stats.
I'd also like to see a return of the in-depth stat tracking that was in Clan Wars. That was excellent and kept track of so many things... total games played, win rates in unranked and ranked, favorite weapons, favorite classes, total play time, wins according to which map / scheme type, etc.
In addition to bringing back all of the older weapons from the past games there should of course be many new ones, preferably utilities and items that are more defense-oriented rather than superweapons.
I can go on and on and on about this but you should have a sense of what I am envisioning by this point.
edit: one last thing - various types of physics objects, including more complicated ones using ropes and chain systems, 'fountains' that continuously dribble out small amounts of water / lava / goo / etc. Also environmental interaction... lighting based weapons damage everyone in contact with a body of water (for reduced damage), water can be frozen (just a certain amount), wood floats on water, etc. Those kinds of ideas. Also the inclusion of random events like mini earthquakes, a small meteor falling down, and more sudden death options... all of the options from W:A and then some. Also, AI in online multiplayer because lots of people want that.
