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Messages - skunk3

#376
For those of you who no longer play - why?

Is it because of life commitments?

Have you found another game(s) that you enjoy more?

Does W:A no longer interest you?

Are you just taking a break?


Just curious. Lately WormNET has been extremely boring and hardly any good players play anymore, at least during the hours in which I can typically play.

I've tried finding other games to play but it seems like everything is boring. I haven't found anything addictive in a long time and friends of mine talk me into buying some game every once in a while and I lose interest quickly. (Especially if it involves 'grinding' whatsoever.)

#377
Other worms games / Re: So I uninstalled WMD...
February 04, 2018, 08:37 PM
Team17 has admittedly been making Worms games catered towards newcomers/casuals for quite some time. I remember suggesting a bunch of additional weapons and utilities to be added right after WMD launched and one of the Team17 folks replied saying that if they added the weapons that I suggested, there would be too much stuff in the game and it would confuse and overwhelm people.  ::)

Reloaded, Revolution, and Clan Wars all had good aspects and bad aspects, but one of the most annoying bad aspects is that they were all clearly made for consoles first and foremost because they obviously wanted to sell the games on as many platforms as possible to make the most money they could. WMD felt a bit better in this regard, but was still obviously suffering from console-itis as the game didn't even launch with a global chat lobby. I'd like to think that I have myself to thank for Team17 adding it to the game as I am the one who initially suggested it and harped about it until they added it, as half-assed and suboptimal as it ended up being.

I still find it so hilarious that they marketed the game as having "over 80" items to use, yet most of those items are just OP versions of a base item... and we don't even get an option for them to drop in crates, or to make custom schemes that start with more than 5 craftable items... and when the game came out we didn't even have the option to choose up to 5 craftable items as starting inventory! They added that later based on community feedback!

There are so many idiotic decisions surrounding WMD that could have been fixed prior to launch by simply having a beta. The initial reception of the game would have been much better, it would have sold more, and would be more popular today. My support of Team17 feels similar to a guy refusing to leave his wife even though she cheats on him. I'm Worms-cucked.
#378
Other worms games / Re: So I uninstalled WMD...
February 01, 2018, 09:52 AM
Competitive W:A gaming is dying for sure unless somehow loads of inactive people all of a sudden decide to start playing again, actively. I never thought that I would miss the days when people were spamming for clanners and tus/tel matches in AG... but now, I strangely do.

Anyway, Anubis, what you said is correct but I don't think that the momentum actually comes from bouncing off of the wall as much as it does simply pressing up at the right moment. It's very fickle and often doesn't work, at least in a predictable way as in W:A. The WMD rope(s) are usable enough for basic maneuvering but by W:A standards it's kinda pathetic. Also, hardly anyone in WMD has much skill with the rope anyway, so there's rarely rope-based schemes hosted, and those that do get hosted are typically really dumb schemes with tons of crafting crates.

@HHC - I think my comments are totally fair. I've sunk 700+ hours into WMD. Team17 talked a lot but didn't deliver. I don't think that WMD is a terrible game. It just could have been SO MUCH BETTER if they had:

1. Had a beta with veteran players giving input

2. Continued development of the game as they said they would

3. Hadn't made a roadmap that they didn't stick to whatsoever after 1 month or so, lol

4. Hadn't went completely silent on the Steam forums and elsewhere regarding the state of the game and future updates

5. Hadn't priced the game at $30 USD... so many more people would have bought the game if it were a bit less expensive. It didn't go on sale for quite a while and although the sales did help with the player base a bit, it was too little, too late

6. Hadn't split the player base up between Steam, GOG, PS4, XB1, and now Switch

etc etc.

I just got tired of playing WMD due to the fact that I'd lose games fairly often due to nothing more than sheer luck and/or unpredictability. Crafting ruins the experience, utterly. Also, the max round time in WMD is 30 minutes and there is no control over water rise speed. What this means is that if the game actually goes that long, which it often doesn't due to mobility and crafting stupid weapons, most players cannot reliably make long distance shots or even have good strategies in mind for how to deal with the situation other than: "I will drop a sentry, surround myself with girders, spam magnets, and wait until the last second to win with a cheesy weapon like a homing missile or a training shotgun." For some inexplicable reason, the homing missile in WMD now ignores magnets when the thruster is on. What a dumb decision there...

The base gameplay and strategy in Worms: Clan Wars was much better, even if the game engine itself sucked.

#379
Other worms games / So I uninstalled WMD...
January 28, 2018, 12:02 AM
I eventually couldn't take it anymore and uninstalled WMD from my computer. For anyone considering the game (which I doubt many are), here's a few reasons why:

1. Team17 created a 12-month roadmap of planned updates for the game a year ago. Only a couple of the things ever actually made it into the game. The rest were all just empty promises and Team17 was completely silent about the issue for many months until finally one of the community managers basically said that we shouldn't expect any more updates.

2. W:A, while not as active as it once was, is still active enough most of the time to find a game, so why would I bother playing the inferior one?

3. While WMD does add some interesting gameplay elements such as buildings and weapon emplacements, there's also some game-ruining elements added that I simply cannot stand. Vehicles are cheesy and OP in most cases, but they pale in comparison to the crafting system. Crafting ruins the game and is easily the worst element of WMD. Let me explain:

-you start every match with a certain amount of crafting materials, which is determined in the scheme creation screen. you can pick from "few," "some," or "lots."

-every item in your inventory can be deconstructed to give you a set amount of crafting materials, including any items you pick up from crates

-crafting crates also randomly drop, and the amount of materials in the crates is totally random

-there's a new utility in WMD that is basically a drone. It has a few uses including being able to pick up crates. It is thrown like a grenade and then you steer it using your arrow keys. It does have a limited amount of fuel, but the fuel usage doesnt start until you 'activate' the drone by pressing an arrow key. This means you can chuck one all the way across the map and use the drone to pick up MANY crates in one turn, all without having to use any mobility items like parachutes, jetpacks, ropes, etc. You can just stay in your little hidey hole and spam drones on every turn. Also, the drone is very inexpensive to craft so basically picking up just one crafting crate is likely going to recoup the cost of crafting the drone, thus depriving your opponent of the crate.

-you can craft on every single turn, including your own. You just right click and select the crafting tab. Crafted items are available for use on your next turn. What this means is that you can watch your opponent's turn to see how it is going to end and then craft an item 2 seconds before their turn ends... the perfect item for whatever that situation is. It is unbelievably cheesy and basically acts like a handicap system. Why bother getting good at roping when you can just craft another jetpack? Why get good at making long-range zook or nade shots when you can just craft some "point and click" noob weapon?

I personally don't think that crafting adds any skill or strategy to the game whatsoever. All is does is make it luckier and more unpredictable.

4. There's a glaring lack of scheme and game customization options.

5. There's many weapons and utilities missing from past games that I consider to be essentials. (just from W:A - dragon ball, battle axe, bungee, petrol bomb, skunk, girder starter pack, freeze, mole, etc.)

6. There are so many stupid, OP weapons in the game, and many weapons that are utterly redundant and/or useless... to the point that there's several that I have NEVER seen anyone use online.

7. The rope, while better than games since WWP, is still kinda crappy. The only way you gain momentum from the rope is by pressing up. You can't bounce yourself off of walls/terrain/ceilings/etc to gain speed. In fact, that often deadens your momentum. There's lots of tricks that simply cannot be done in WMD with any of the 3 rope variants.

8. The map randomizer function doesn't seem very random at all, and we lack the ability to quickly edit a map with paintbrush tools. Also, no random girders appear on randomly generated maps.

9. User-created content is mostly garbage.

10. Fire is very weird in WMD. When a barrel explodes, it explodes into globs of fire rather than an even spread. A worm can be not far away from a barrel when it explodes and literally avoid taking any fire damage at all. Also, there's no persistent fire in WMD, so petrol bombs are just a fond memory. (Team17 claimed that persistent fire was causing FPS issues in WMD so they scrapped it.)

11. There is no concept of rules or etiquette at all. Hardly anyone knows what KTL or ABL means, and those that do are an extreme minority either informed of the rules by myself or a handful of other people. Friends will often join game lobbies and work together as a team even though they aren't the same color. Of course, you usually don't realize this until several turns in and by that point they're either completely silent or actively taunting. Also, randoms will often team up together to take out players that they deem threats, or simply just because they annoyed them one time. I might as well wear a bullseye hat in WMD because I get focus fired on in almost every game, and I don't mean just when it is convenient, either... these people will literally kill off their own worms and waste all of their resources to kill you just to troll.

12. The ranking system is flawed, the ranked scheme is flawed, and there's only one ranked scheme, which is the "Pro" scheme. (It's a bit different than in W:A.) Newcomers have 0% chance of ever getting in the top 20 even if they grind all day because they never reset the leaderboards and it basically just comes down to grinding out the most games. There's some people who do nothing but play like 10 ranked games a day every day since the game came out.

13. Starting order is randomized in response to people complaining about first turn advantage. While a lot of people really like this change, I don't... whether that is a 1-on-1 match or a 6-player match. I don't like it because it forces you to pick suboptimal placements. If I *know* that I am going second, I can more wisely select my spawn points... same with going first. When it is randomized you basically just have to play it safe, which I personally don't like but whatever.

14. There is so much mobility in the game. Even though the maps are huge by default W:A standards, it's still really easy to get around because you have teleports, 3 types of ninja ropes, parachute, a combat parachute (that lets you basically ignore wind), jetpacks, jetpack eco (which basically halves fuel consumption), party balloons, plus you can manually activate parachutes at any time... so someone could flagpole up, then activate their chute and float to the other side of the map. On top of that, many vehicles offer a lot of mobility. The helicopter is like an unlimited jetpack. The Rocket League car is fast and can double jump really high. The mech can glide really far. The drillboat can float on water. The only vehicle with shitty mobility options is the tank... but it's a tank and can take loads of damage before blowing up. Mobility is problematic in WMD.

15. Fall damage is very forgiving compared to W:A. You can drop much further than before without taking damage or losing a turn.

16. It's difficult to predict exactly how far away you need to be from an explosion to prevent taking damage. There's like an invisible shockwave that goes beyond the actual bounds of the explosion that damages worms which look like they should be safely far away. The only way to prevent taking damage is to put as much space between your worm and the explosion as possible.

17. Hardly anyone chats, voice or text... in game OR in the global lobby.

18. There's only maybe 6-7 terrain themes. The themes themselves look great, but it gets stale fast.

19. Lots of scheme types simply cannot be played in WMD due to lack of options.

20. The player base is divided between Steam, GOG, XB1, PS4, and Switch. Most days the Steam version of WMD feels about as active as W:A, but it's probably a little more active.

21. Lack of previous gameplay features that were excellent and added nice dimensionality to the game, such as dynamic water, worm classes, physics objects, etc.

blah blah blah

I can go on and on but anyway I just wanted to share some insights. WMD could have been a fantastic game but Team17 dropped the ball once again. I think that casuals and noobs would love WMD, especially for local multiplayer and whatnot, but for serious competition and deep gameplay, it's a stinker.
#380
Hopefully the game is getting updated today because nobody can host anything on WormNET right now. HB is down and even people who have their ports forwarded can't host. It's a chatroom for now lol.

[edit] Some hosting is back now.
#381
Tech Support / Re: WMDB messed up?
January 08, 2018, 08:39 PM
Nothing is working now. Hostingbuddy is offline and nobody can host ANY games at all, HB or not. People are just flooding AG chat now. I wonder if 3.8 is rolling out? Doubt it..
#382
Tech Support / WMDB messed up?
January 08, 2018, 03:42 PM
Just tried to host a big rr using hostingbuddy...

Selecting a random Big Rope Race big map from WMDB...
Error: WMDB download failed: Socket error: recv() error: Connection refused


#383
Quote from: Ryan on January 06, 2018, 09:13 AM
Why the entitlement?

It's not entitlement per se... I just care. I've been playing W:A since launch and I still play it pretty much daily, and I find it annoying that according to everything I've heard, 3.8 has basically been finished for quite some time yet for some mysterious reason it hasn't been released and only a handful of testers have had the chance to see it. If there's an update out there that can possibly pull people out of retirement and entice them to actually play W:A again on a regular basis, I want to see it released.
#384
@CyberShadow - So what is the reason why these improvements and bug fixes are not being released? I'd find that demotivational as well. Is it Team17's decision? Deadcode's? Knowing that there's numerous fixes and improvements that can be added to the game yet they aren't for some mysterious reason is irksome. There's absolutely no point in not rolling out updates as soon as they are available unless I'm missing something?

I'd love to hear an explanation for this because I can't think of any good reason why these updates/fixes shouldn't be released the moment they are ready. Who do you talk with at Team17 and what is the nature of your communication? How often do you communicate? (Just curious!)




Totally unrelated - does anyone know who/what "DataLate'irssi" is? That name is *always* in #AG and it clearly isn't a player because they don't join or host games, or communicate.
#385
Yeah, I guess I misinterpreted what he meant by that. I definitely appreciate his efforts in a big way. I'm not as informed as some other people when it comes to who is doing what, or what is being done regarding W:A since I rarely check TUS.
#386
Also, if there's stuff he's been doing more recently that I simply do not know about, that is very possible.
#387
Quote from: j0e on January 03, 2018, 10:16 PM
Quote from: skunk3 on January 03, 2018, 09:59 PMCyberShadow hasn't done much of anything in years because of whatever reason(s). (Assuming he fundamentally disagrees with DC on many issues and has basically stopped trying.)
This is not true at all. HostingBuddy and WormNAT have been the largest forces keeping Wormnet alive through the past several years. Cybershadow has been active making continual improvements to HB - adding TUS map support, improved map info, and various small new features. He also hosts these services at his own time and expense, and does not solicit donations. Also don't forget he made Wormkit - where would we be without that?

Trying not to sound like a douche here, but it would be better to thank them for their good intentions and still being around, instead of pointing blame or trivializing their efforts. None of us knows what goes on behind the scenes, and together they have made the game what it is today. I was unaware there was some level of disagreement between them and it's somewhat upsetting .. I really hope they can come to terms and continue working together.

I was only going off of what CyberShadow said previously. Most of the stuff you mentioned is several years old by this point. It's not that I am not grateful for it (that couldn't be further from the truth) it's just that we haven't seen much new. I wasn't in any way demeaning CS's efforts or continued support.
#388
I can only assume that Deadcode has given the 3.8 patch to Team17 and they have to verify some shit or whatever and make sure it's all good before "officially" releasing it. Not that Team17 has had anything to do with W:A in many years aside from re-releasing it on Steam to make a little money.

I do care about updates and patches and whatnot. W:A is my favorite game of all time and the Worms franchise is my favorite game franchise of all time. Nothing else really even comes close except maybe The Elder Scrolls, but that's a distant second. I know that this game is really old at this point and expecting updates is foolish, but that doesn't change the fact that I'd like to see them regardless. Ideally I would like to see continuous updates forever but Team17 certainly isn't going to invest any effort into that (they barely give a shit about their new games) and clearly CyberShadow hasn't done much of anything in years because of whatever reason(s). [edit: this is not true](Assuming he fundamentally disagrees with DC on many issues and has basically stopped trying.)

That basically leaves things up to Deadcode and perhaps a handful of other community members to improve the game, and they aren't getting paid for it and might not actually have the knowledge and skill to pull off what they would like to do. I gotta say that I'm not very optimistic about W:A's future these days. I generally don't have a problem finding a game to play when I log on, but finding older and/or skilled players can be really tough a lot of the time. What prompted so many people to quit at roughly the same time?

I know that I am going off-topic but eh, whatever. Keeping W:A fresh and active is really important to me because nothing else out there (in terms of games) is as addictive and fun. What's around today that can rival W:A in terms of replay value? I haven't been able to find anything even close. I might get burned out from time to time from playing and want to take short breaks, but I couldn't ever see myself retiring for good. At this point W:A has kinda become a part of my life in a sense. I've been playing it for basically half of my life.

I don't think that releasing 3.8 is really going to bring in any new people, and as far as enticing older players to become active again, who knows? That completely depends on what 3.8 entails in terms of updates and whether or not that person quit playing because of non-Worms-related issues.

I just wish that everyone would become active again and never stop playing. Furthermore, I see no reason to NOT release 3.8, and I also see no reason to be so quiet about what it entails. This game community is extremely small and loyal and lording information over others just seems pointless. I could understand keeping things quiet when it comes to a newer title, but FFS this game is almost old enough to vote. At this point, everything should be public knowledge - everything.

#389
I see no reason to not release it. Many people have more than one version of W:A installed already, so it's not like it would be a huge issue. Having more people playing the new version would mean that more people are finding and addressing bugs and other issues. It would be beneficial to everyone to release 3.8 A.S.A.P..

While I do think that W:A is fine the way it is now, I can certainly think of tons of ways by which it can be improved. If I had an ounce of programming/coding skills, I would have tried to implement all kinds of things years ago.

That said, the game feels really inactive and lonely these days. I can't remember the last time I saw some people playing a clanner, or someone even spamming AG for a 1v1 ranked match. I'm just glad that W:A still gets a few new players here and there because I'll probably be playing this game until I'm in the grave. (With breaks, ofc)
#390
General discussion / Re: Where's 3.8?
December 30, 2017, 09:53 PM
Team17 takes forever to do anything, especially if it is related to something that is not bringing them in money. WMD players were promised a whole list of things that never got incorporated, and we were also promised new terrain themes after the launch of the Nintendo Switch version. The Switch version has been out for a while now and there's been no news whatsoever of when the new themes are going to be released on Steam.